History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

Constant wars, unlimited privileges for nobility, lack of cooperation between GDL and Poland, plagues and most importantly - Veto right.

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

It is strange that most of you say that it was Poland only. Commonwealth was "marriage" of GDL and Poland. By the way first Livonian war was fought by GDL only, as Poland didn't send anything to help.

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

I don't get it, what nowadays turks have to do with commonwealth fall?

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]

You use 1931 census, which didn't use nationality question, but instead "mother tongue". That means any jew, byelorussian or other who used polish at home was counted as a pole. Not to mention that pre-war chairman of the Polish census statistical office said that results were "fixed". Ironside, you are becoming more and more desperate. :D

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]


Well, Vilnius city had more than 50% of jews, not poles. And considering those harsh conditions of polish occupation, it was dangerous to say that you are not a pole, or ticket to concentration camp was guaranteed. And i am not talking about Vilnius district, the same goes to Belarus and Ukraine. In short, 1931 census was nothing more but show to please polish nationalists.


I agree. But the same is with polish politicians.

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]


Are you really that naive or just pretending? Military occupation using armed forces is "self-determination"?


LOL


It seems you are brainwashed.

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]


Locals, right... it was polish division renamed to be "locals", that was used to back stab Lithuania.


Because you are repeating the same what Russia's and Poland's foreign ministries say, while EU finds no problems.

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]


I don't have the names, do you have them? From what i found it had mostly poles. So naming it Lithuanian-belarusian is for propaganda only.


Did Lithuania sign military alliance with Soviet Russia and attacked Poland? Following your logic, then Poland got what it deserved at the begining of ww2.


Only Russia and Poland claim that Lithuania violates minority rights. if it were true, EU would have intervened, yet we heard nothing. You can say what you want, but Poland is

far from perfect in granting rights for minorities.


Of course, how could Poland be wrong :D

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]


I looked in to that division and was composed of people from various eastern region you call Kresy. However before Suwalki treaty it suffered heavy casualties and many replacements came from Poland. So it was Lithuanian-Belarusian only on paper. Interesting fact, that some who where from Vilnius district and found out that they were going against Lithuania, they deserted. Any other information is scarce and misleading.


The only cooperation i know is transit rights through territory that Lithuania gained after Lithuania-Soviet peace treaty. No direct military action or any support against Poland. Speaking of sneaky, Poland showed that no one can best her there.


No one is stopping. They already have them.


Maybe if you stopped your smear campaigns, everyone would be happy?

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]


Same old song, still full of hate towards lithuanians.


Nothing new, when out of ideas, start insulting others and falsify history.

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]


I wonder, if stated facts are true, then why didn't EU step in?

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]


Don't hide behind "facts". Your almost every comment is full of hate.


Insults and only insults. Do you have any real proof of nationalities in those regions. 1931 census doesn't count.


Then maybe you should tell us all why EU doesn't step in? Did you read said treaty? I read it all and couldn't find any article that was violated, yet Poland violated at least one (poke it's nose in Lithuania's internal matters)


What does my father have to do with you spreading hatred and lies?

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]


Oh, misread that one. Still throwing insults is your feat.


Well, i don't know, maybe there is nothing violated...


Lets see, one of articles in the treaty says that each country will deal with it's internal matters itself, without any influence from other country. Political pressure from Poland, demands, threats looks like intervention to other countries courtyard, or maybe i am wrong... Enlighten us oh the wisest Ironside

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]


Ah, yes, take half sentence and make it the way it suits you. If you are so all knowing then tell us, not bask in your ignorance.


And your posts are very informative, right?

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]


Nothing in article 13.
Article 14 has smth to say about use of surnames in minority language, but also states that this must be agreed in other treaties, which i know none of.

Hm, not sure about article 15. Maybe you could point me a problem?
Article 20. Poland clearly violates it. Lithuanian minority has severe lack of books, schools underfunded, no new educational books were approved for at least a year. Lithuania had to devote 300k lt to fund those schools, otherwise they would be closed.

:DD Then maybe you should use communist Poland history and claim that 1945 elections were the most democratic?


Look up, near article 20.

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]


Denial? You are the one who use same sources that were agreed to biased when all that "discrimination" crap started, yet you use them again. Can you prove that lithuanians constituted only 6% and the rest were poles? From what i read, lithuanians were at least 25%, poles 30%, the rest were jews and belarussians. I won't bother writing the names of books, because you would start screaming that those are biased and writen by nationalists xD


You can't even write my nickname correctly, maybe you should go to school and learn a bit more.

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]

I already asked him at least twice. His answer was: i know, you must find out. In short: nothing is violated, so no need for EU to interfere. ironside knows only one truth: the one that suits him and his fantasies.

Ironside, look at this: zum.de/whkmla/region/russia/xgovvilna.html, looks like third party source. Although i am sure you will start crying that it is biased :D

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]

Not every pole is lying, only you. Did you look in to my linked material?

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]


Vilnius city had majority of jews (>50%) before ww1, however surrounding lands (80% of population lived NOT in cities) had more lithuanians than poles. After Zeligowski afair, number of lithuanians started to diminish due to oppression, polonisation, colonization, mass migration and other factors. No wonder lithuanians contituted minority at the start of ww2.


That area had strong lithuanian majority, so wonder there.

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]

Strong polish minority near Kaunas? Max 5%, i wouldn't give more.

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]


And what census is 100% right? If you would use 1921, then it is obvious it was "fixed", Lithuania and Poland were battling over that region in League of Nations, so the more you have your people there, the better is your claim.


Of course they had majority. Lithuanian teachers, priests imprisoned, simple lithuanian folk oppressed. What do you expect?

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]


Before ww2, yes, before ww1, no.

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]


before ww2 not ww1.

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]

Look, we can argue about who was majority for whole eternity. I use my books, you use yours. How it was really, i doubt we will ever know for sure. Those times were dark and history was written by those who controlled the land. Fact is, Vilnius is now in Lithuania. As for "discrimination", it is only used when elections are happening. Just look how it got silent, once elections ended in Poland. Apart from Sikorski, nobody gives a damn.

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]

Yes, some make waves. But it is mostly nationalists or politicians like Tomasevski. But stick has two ends. His allies are now abandoning him, because he does nothing but causes hatred. Every country has it's internal problems, so there is no need to intervene in to neighbors backyard. It only makes worse.


There was a project to create a state with Belarus, but politicians had disagreements, then came soviets and all ended.

Also, did you know that when AWPL made protest in september, children were brought and used for propaganda purposes. Most of them even didn't know why they came there.

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]

Showed on the news, wrote in newspaper and net was full of comments, one of my friend's work is near by, so he shared impressions. One episode in the news: journalist comes near a couple of children who hold a poster written in polish. He asks them what are they protesting against. They answer that they were offered opportunity to visit Vilnius, but now they are here, although don't know why.

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]


But that is direct violation of Lithuania-Poland good neighborhood treaty. What if Germany start throwing threats and demands to Poland because "german minority is discriminated"? No doubt Poland would be furious. All that fuss about polish minority in Lithuania is because polish minority lost some privileges and local politicians decided to get cheap fame at the cost of whole minority. Same is with Poland's politicians.

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]


They have rights, they want privileges. Simply put, they want too much. Are you so narrowminded? Elections in Poland ended, your politicians don't care about poles in Lithuania anymore


Maybe you should show me how xD


I am not sitting in this forum every free minute, i have better things to do.


I live near the lake, where in summer are a lot of people. I was attacked twice by drunk teenagers, who were speaking polish. Should we now shout that lithuanians are in danger?

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]


Anyone who is not in AWPL


I wasn't beaten, but still encounter was unpleasant. And yes, they tried to beat me because i spoke in lithuanian and didn't share cigaretes.

History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]

Know a country where racial or nationalistic attacks are absent? Poland is definitely not an exception. As i said before, if there were some standards violated, EU would have stepped immediately. So stop crying, nothing will come of that.