Posts by okayokok

okayokok

9 Oct 2010

Law / UK driving license mess in Poland [72]

Have just signed up here to say hello and to confer about UK ex-pat Driving License Woes, which is why I am posting here rather than my country-specific section.

Am British and emigrated to Poland two years ago. I have a UK photographic driving license, which expired 6 months ago pending photo renewal. Because I live in the city centre in Poland I don't own a car, and haven't driven for that period of 6 months while my license was invalid. But I tend to rent a car when I go on holiday, so I want to have a valid license and am now getting round to doing the renewal. But now all hell has broken loose! I'm in an admin trap that many expats must be facing.

I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that the law is that we should have a new driving license issued by Poland. So really I should be converting my UK license into a Polish one. But the Polish authority need a valid license to do the conversion. So they need me to renew my UK license first. But now that I have checked, the UK DVLA don't renew licenses for expats, only UK residents, and on their renewal form it threatens a £1000 fine and/or 2 years imprisonment to anyone falsely stating their residency status.

I happen to have passed my test first time, and have never had a black spot, an accident nor any kind of speeding fine.

So I have thought up a few possible options:

1. Retake my driving test in Poland, which would be a complete and utter nightmare.

2. Apply to renew my UK license, and lie on the form that I am a UK resident, hoping they won't cross-reference the info with the Inland Revenue and then throw me in jail.

3. Apply for driving license conversion in Poland, hoping they won't notice my UK license has expired.

4. Go to Ukraine or Russia and buy a fake Polish driving license on the black market.

5. Apply to renew my UK license, say on the form that I have just returned to the UK and that I am a UK resident since last week, with the inference that I have yet to get round to making it official with the UK Inland Revenue. Then, once I get the license, simply never declare UK residency because I "unexpectedly had to return to Poland", convert to the Polish license, and throw the UK license away. This is a sort of white-lie version of Point (2).

6. Write to the Polish and British authorities asking them what alternatives I have other than retaking my driving test in Poland.

7. Something that this forum advises.

okayokok

9 Oct 2010

Law / UK driving license mess in Poland [72]

Nice one. I wonder why the DVLA wont renew the driving license for British expats resident in the EU..

okayokok

11 Oct 2010

Law / UK driving license mess in Poland [72]

Wroclaw Boy,

I am not scared of the system, but when you read the DVLA photo license renewal form it does make you think twice. It makes you declare that you are a UK resident, on pain of a £1000 fine and 2 years imprisonment. It is quite pathetic, and made me laugh, but also inclines me to go for point 5 rather than point 2. One never knows when one is going to get fcuked by a British bureaucrat who gets a sick pleasure from going by the book.

okayokok

11 Oct 2010

Law / UK driving license mess in Poland [72]

Tonywob,

This is an interesting surprise. Thanks. But presumably you were officially still a "UK resident" for tax purposes... in other words even though you were living Poland you were not paying tax in Poland but in the UK...

Otherwise, I cant see why the DVLA would break their own rules...

okayokok

11 Oct 2010

Law / UK driving license mess in Poland [72]

Right, so technically you are and always have been a British resident, which is why they had no issue with you at all.

I`m a British non-resident, hence the bizarre solution we have found on this forum, which is that I am going to become a UK resident again for a few days, just so as to renew my UK driving license according to the DVLA rules. Incidentally, I wont even fly back to the UK - it will all be on paper.

Nuts.

okayokok

12 Oct 2010

Law / UK driving license mess in Poland [72]

Tonywob,

Exactly. Question is - in order for the Poles convert the UK license to a Polish one will they accept the valid paper part alone or will they insist on getting my (invalid) photo part as well...

okayokok

31 Dec 2011

Real Estate / Property taxation in Poland and inheritance (obligated by law to pay)? [32]

@par

I'm heavily invested into Polish real estate so I can comment.

It would be fatal to base your decision purely on the sale price of the flat, whether current or forecast, without including the currency conversion into the currency you use, I assume euro or sterling.

The zloty has just dropped about 20% against both currencies, which means your flat just dropped in value by that much. Don't wait for the sale price to go up, wait for the zloty to strengthen back to levels we saw 6 months ago. I would expect the sale price of central Wroclaw apartments to go up at most about 1% per year for the foreseeable future (next few years), but we might see a 25% gain in the zloty within a year if they fix the euro. If the euro dies, the zloty will be much stronger than the new drachma, lira and paseta that they'll have to start printing, and will have an enviable exchange against the new Deutschmark. So either way, think of yourself as a currency trader, not a realtor.

Certainly, having a nice young couple live there to pay you some rent to cover overheads won't hurt, but your income will be minimal: I would expect about 2500 zloty per month for that size in central Wroclaw, from which you need to pay all your bills. On that note, it always pays to fill the place immediately by discounting the rent. If it stands empty for two months that is equivalent to a 17% loss of rental income per annum, so offer a 10% discount and get people in there immediately.

okayokok

31 Dec 2011

Real Estate / Property taxation in Poland and inheritance (obligated by law to pay)? [32]

Par says they live in Europe, which would suggest the dollar is irrelevant to them.

With respect, you're not quite right about the dollar. Take a look at the 10-year USD/PLN
xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=PLN&view=10Y

It shows that from early 2004 to early 2008, the Polish zloty doubled in value against the dollar, meaning all Polish assets including apartments had a capital gain in dollar terms of 100% in four years, plus sale price inflation.

For the last two years or so we've been swinging between about 2.7 to 3.5, another return to 2.7 would be a more than 20% capital gain. There is no way sale prices will rise like that any time soon. I rest my case: foreign owners of Polish real estate should thin of themselves more as currency traders, than landlords. The end result of the euro crisis is the most important factor.

If you read the news you'll know the Polish government intervened at least twice this week to strengthen the zloty, which enables it to manage foreign-denominated debt. A zloty-strengthening cycle is entirely likely right now.

okayokok

31 Dec 2011

Real Estate / Property taxation in Poland and inheritance (obligated by law to pay)? [32]

Nope, I have properties whose mortgages are paid for by tenants so I've no interest in liquidating that arrangement at the moment.

The difference is that Par appears to own the property outright from inheritance: so yes selling now, holding zloty cash and then waiting for the zloty to strengthen would be more profitable than holding on to the flat in the hope of a significant price rise.

Prices doubled in 2004/5 on the Polish credit boom. There won't be credit-driven price growth any time soon. But there will be currency strengthening.

okayokok

31 Dec 2011

Real Estate / Property taxation in Poland and inheritance (obligated by law to pay)? [32]

Let's not conflate my recommendations for Par with my own situation.

Par lives outside Poland and has inherited property in Poland outright, and sooner or later wants to get money out of Poland.

I live in Poland and have buy-to-let property here, and don't have any good reason to get money out of Poland.

The two circumstances are very different indeed.

If I was in Par's shoes I would sell up sooner rather than later, and certainly not hold out hope for a second Polish housing boom.

Given that I live in Poland, and have investment property on credit which has already doubled in value, I would use an inheritance in a different way. I would probably get myself a nice house in the country, or a place somewhere else in Europe. God knows - it's conjecture.