Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

It comes from old-Polish word "murzać" meaning dirty. Back in the days if you were not a coal miner and were black - they had to make a name for you. Most obvious was that they were "dirty".

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


And which dictionaries exactly you have checked? Are you a linguist?? Have you checked deep enough?
You can even google it, please! Don't write a definitive statement unless you really know the subject.

Look here:
andreadoria.republika.pl/bajki/sierotka15.html
afryka.org/?showNewsPlus=3004
These are just random results form a quick search...

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

Magda, no need to be mean, is there? Enkidu wrote a definitive statement which was not true and I commented on it.
Your "in-depth" search was based on not much more than wikipedia and first search results I think. That's not enough in many cases and it does not give full knowledge.

I didn't deny it is not a borrowing - read with more understanding please! My explanation was for the purpose of proving there actually was such a word (without going deep) as someone stated there wasn't, and not for the sake of making a lecture. And the word does not show up only in Konopnicka's. Try some dictionaries or opinions of linguists specialised in this field instead of only the web. It helps sometimes! Check Rada Języka Polskiego, or e.g. profs. Grzenia, £aziński, Siuciak. Read their explanations and you will hopefully conclude that generally neither of us were wrong.

I guess you like to prove your point, more than share knowledge.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

No argument to that, Marqoz. Thanks for a positive input:))

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

And I suggest little less confidence. My advice on using more sources, i.e. dictionaries came first. Anyway I appreciate your input.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

Marqoz: Yes, that's interesting. Thanks I'll be checking the leads you wrote. And it was not me who exaggerate I think :))

cheers

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

WOO!

Hold your horses!
SEVEN genders? Seven? I'd like the author of the article to name them;)

And being fluent in your mother tongue on average age of 12? Ridiculous.

Polish the hardest language? It's very hard indeed, but what about e.g. Finnish. Or languages with no alphabet for people who know only alphabet-based languages? Or click languages? This article is bollocks! But it started a very nice discussion though :)

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]


1. Not 16, but earlier in my opinion;). And it is not hard if you ACQURE language not only LEARN.

2. Are you joking? When I was at school I didn't hear about such things as "disortografia", "disgrafia", "dislexia" or "discalculia". Yep, those notions made popular later. Also we did not hear then about ADHD. There were just people who had to study harder or repeat a semester or they had bad marks from behaviour;). And definitely not 80% Poles have such "certificate" - that's rubbish just as much as stating that 80% of Polish society cannot wrte correctly in their mother tongue.

Travel / Looking for a good map of Poland on the Net [19]

If you are a trucker and basing on your nick that yo are:) then I'd recommend Michelin Via maps and NAVTEQ Map24 (it's like 'passive' navigation)

Work great, I use them myself.
Here are the links:

map24.interia.pl
viamichelin.co.uk/htm/hme/Homepage_lite.htm

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]


Yes, I know that well. But the author of that article didn't:) and that was my point, that if someone starts an article like that then the quality of their research (if any) is poor.

Law / Poland - Temporary Residence card - Karta pobytu - required documents [142]


Best way will be to renew the rental contract e.g. permanently (without due date). then your problem is solved. But for that you must talk to the landlord (e.g. just add an addendum to your rental contract that says that you rent this apartment without "end" date, with let's say 2-month notice). I fixed with my landlord like this and I don't have such problems anymore.

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

I agree with the above - this "disease" is somewhat make-believe or rather overused. You have problems with orthography or with putting neat letters in your handwriting (disgraphia) or with numbers (discalculia)? - Then you must study more! That is how it used to be back in the days and now every child can go with their parents to get such a 'cerificate'. It is too common! Sure, there are such people who have this impairment, but these terms are abused.

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

Very accurate insight, Delphiandomine. What schools did you mean? A linguistic approach or just schools where children learn?

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]


I would say no. It doesn't matter which language you speak - mother tongue is mastered by two processes: learning (e.g. at school, from grammar books, like foreign languages) but also acquired (from the very begining babies listen to the language and acquire it later by being exposed to it and are naturally immensed in language). You rather don't have to think which case or gender or tense to use, you do it naturally.

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]


I think there's at least 14-16 million Hungarian speakers. I don't think Hungarians would say it is hard for them to speak their mother tongue. Is it hard for you to speak your language? It's fairly similar with other languages if you are brought up in this language.

@delphiandomine: Ok, thanks. I think it's exactly as you wrote. And who's the spammer?

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]


I wouldn't say that the difficulty is measured like this mainly because languages become popular because of economy, politics and social reasons rather than just being easier to learn (if so why English is far more popular than easier languages?). It is true that languages from the same language group are easier to master because of their common features and native speakers of languages that don't have that much in common have it harder to learn.

I'd say that difficulty of language can rather be measured by its complexity, forms, exceotions, conjugation, number of tenses, genders, inflexion and generally grammar and lexis richness/complexity.

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]


I wrote that.


- you must've been talking to people not well educated probably or you've been talking to average people. I can ask any average Englishman about some language aspect like you and I'd get a similar answer: "It's just like that" or "That's how you say it".

I don't see a question in this topic I could not answer at least with some basic explanation. I am not saying I know everything about Polish but I feel educated enough in my mother tongue to answer your questions. And to speak correctly. And every emmigrant's first language deteriorates after 20 yrs of not using it, don't you think? But it also depends what age they left their countries.


Well, it is richer than English for example. I know this is a controversial statement, but rich means also more difficult to learn, as e.g. word formation and grammar are not so simple as in English.


What's absurd? That you found a tough language question? Yes every language has them.

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]


That's very true, and that is what I meant.

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

Hi,

Out of curiosity - could you give us this question, what was it?

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

Ok, right,
but English doesn't have so many tenses does it.
For Poles the only hard thing in English tenses are perfect tenses as there's no equivalent to that in Polish. The rest is almost like simplification - not much of conjugation, genders, aspects are treated completly different, but understandable.


- I wrote about this before, when I asked English speakers :). It's the same!
- it's just a matter of level of command of language [or a really hard question:) ], and also when you ask any native speaker (so English speakers too, like I'd witten) some complicated linguistic question they often cannot explain fully as they aquired language and foreigners learn it, so they rely only on studied grammar rules etc. and native speakers often rather "sense" which forms to use than apply learnt language rules and then it is harder to explain why.

I'm not sure if I wrote it clear, sorry.

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]


what's that? calling names helps in discussion or it's your style?


-or you are working on a reputation? :)

Delphiandomine proved some points, and expanded some ideas, I haven't noticed sarcasm in his posts.

Will that reconcile you if I write that there are silly rules in Polish and in English, and both languages happen sometimes to be inefficient, and sometimes you can say sthg better in English and some other time it's more efficient in Polish?

Elaborate language forms are complicated obviously, but I wouldn't agree that Poles have more problems with answering language questions than e.g. Englishmen...

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

There. I had had something to say but I'm speechless now:))))))))

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]


- true, and that's exactly what I was saynig before. Anyway the article (link in the beginning of this thread) was really silly, serious mistakes in it ("7 genders, 7 tenses"... etc.)


- I surmise that from his accent and the way he talks:)).

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

Wish I didn't stop learning it. No way, for me it was quite simple as long as (as in every language learning) you practise writing kanji and learn the rules. I sometimes felt it like "it's so simple that it's hard", as we have developed grammar rules and e.g mandarin has it different, simply said designed by a different architect.

Life / Giving tips in Poland [235]

I think the reason why tipping is so popular is that it actually has quite a low-motive basis. You give it to make you feel better. Generous, following the code. On the other side you have a satisfied bartender/waiter.

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]


Swedish? If not then Norwegian or Danish, but I'm betting on Svenska. And what the heck it means? Does this make any sense? I recognize a caouple of words in it but still can't figure out the whole.

Life / Giving tips in Poland [235]


Ok, but why should the customer pay more than the receipt? Why doesn't the proprietor of a cafe or restaurant pay a decent wages and the staf have to rely on tips? It's like spinning a vicious circle some would say.

To be perfectly clear I myself do tip for service, always for good service and I'm actually not very demanding of what a good service is. This discussion about tipping customs arose among my friends and actually both sides had really good arguments...

beelzebub


Exactly, why then not have it on a receipt? - Because you want to tip the person that served your table not necessarily the owner of the place.


Sales people usually work on a commission or basic salary + commission. A tip is not commission.
It is different also because the tip is not included in the receipt and commission is. And whn you use to e.g. real estate agency, the agent is working on a commission that's included in the total amount you pay to the agency, right?


It's a norm in the USofA. We probably shouldn't follow every pattern as this one is especialy ridiculous. 20% is a lot, ther has to be some limit. Spinning the vicious circle again;)


- You said it: GRATUITY. Not remmuneration. Why it became like that the owner of the place pays only half of the decent wages and the rest is pushed on the customer in the name of the TIP?

It's becoming to look like in some countries in the Middle East, tip for everything, a barber, a tour guide, everything. I'm wondering, is that a good direction?


- And I hope it will not reach the point of sillyness


- Exactly, a tip by definition is rather a kind of reward or gratuity for nice service - not a part of salary!


I wouldn't put it better:). But still we're left with the social pressure to give tips not to be jerks, we want to give them actually, and at the same time we happen to be forced sometimes to pay when it was not earned, right?

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

You mean appliance? Radio reciever? Radio station? Channel? Because radio as is is hard to count.

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

If it's the same then would you say "pięć jajów" ???

Until quite recently you did not conjugate words like radio, kakao, studio, but a few years ago it evolved and now it is allowed. "Witamy w naszym studiu", "dziś w radiu", etc. So maybe pięć radii, huh? Anyway I don't see when you would say that? What does it mean? How can you count radio?