History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

Hi all there!
i just newly discovered that forum and by the chance the fifth title under the "poland culture" attracted me. i have been trying to read the posts from the first page but i couldnt stand to read them all till 19th one. it's mostly due to the content of discussions.

First of all I'm another Turk who hoped to find something peaceful and cultural at that forum above nationalism (i mean both for Turks and EU citizens). and i dont think nation means much above the personality of a human. my mother's family emigrated from Crete a century ago and my father's family came to Eagean lands from Bulgaria at 19th century. all my ancestors call themselves Turks but how far am I a Turk? i always judge that situation for all Anatolians that have been living in these lands for 1000 years. how can someone claim that his origins are from Khan's of Middle-Asia? most of Ottoman emperors got their Sultans (wives) from Russian slave-girls.

Is it sound possible to keep a race as pure as it was 1500 years ago without any mix? we talk about here Anatolia, a land that has been a "high-way" of trade, wars, empires, religions and cultures!

Before 19th century there wasnt a conception of Turkish nationalism in Ottoman empire. every muslim was accepted as a part of Ottoman community, therefore after spread of nationalism all over the Europe, all muslims living in Balkans and around empire are called Ottoman Turks. Thanks to France Revolution for its all racist ideas!(I'm joking at the last sentence:)

anyway you see i'm not well going with the radical nationalists of my own country. on the other hand, Turkish nationalism was a great cause&consequence of "The Turkish War of National Liberation."

I think these explanations about nationalism are enough for the first post.
i dont want to get involve any polemics about race or nationalism etc.
i just want to share stuff on cultural relations.

by the way, those (espically women) who dislike Turkish men on Skype, please be sure it is not a special treatment for European girls and women. that type of Turkish men are unfortunately rude and something above rudeness that i cant find a definition in English,... towards Turkish women too. you're right that only talkable subject of them, is sex. Turkish chat rooms in Turkey are also the same. and unfortunately streets of Istanbul are full of men who thinks every women should/may desire them.

I always want to think in a positive way that because of illeteracy and oppression these class of men dont have any other possibility to get contact a women. However I'm at 24 and half of my life has passed with the hatred of behaveres and looks of these men and i cant think of any positive idea.

Above all, middle, high-middle and upper class Turkish men are except all of these conceptions and expressions. kind, respectful, clever, sweet and lovely men that you come across are probably well-educated, urban living ones and spending his time on more valuable things than talking on sex at skype!

finally i can explain why i'm here. i have been studying on "Polish cinema after communism era" subject for my MA degree.

Because i love eastern European cinema, and Polish cinema gives the best movies of it, in my opinion. so i liked your country just for the movies of your great directors.

i want to know much more detail about Poland, Poles, history and culture.
what else i can say, i want to be a friend. of course in cultural meaning:)

i hope, i may change some negative thoughts of you.
you see well-educated and friendly Turks are real and they exists:)


by the way, i'm agree 'alaçatı' is the right address; indeed İzmir and Aegean side is the right route to have vocation and get to know Turkey.

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]


Unfortunately, whatever i told that sounds negative is generally true, not a lie. my aim is not to denigrate my country; do you think it is a delightful sense to talk about one's own country negatively in a foreign forum? I'm not a kind of person; neither i think Europeans or Anglo-American civilizations are innocent or the best of the man kind history. I have been studying seriously on world history (especially western) , politics, literature and cultural relations for more than 6 years. and I'm very unhappy with my "educated situation." world history and so called human civilization is like Pandora's box. there is not any hope for a good future; because history repeats itself with wars and nothing can be done towards capitalist economy and social structures shaped according to it.

i think a brief paragraph of my ideas about western civilized societies in general is enough to explain. what i told about Turkey or Turks is true, and my aim is not to be a star for Polish&EU members of that forum. indeed i wrote those especially for my own people. Because as far as i read, the nationalist arguments get sharpen and even radical; so for a moment we should stop and think about ourselves before defending our country and people. that is called self-criticism, a concept that Turkish people generally dont like much.

rock, i read some of your comments, and as far as i understood you are the kind of person to realize what I'm talking about.

On the other hand, when defend is necessary i can defend my country to the end.
I dont think it is justice to name events at 1913 as genocide; i mean Armenians. the whole country was at war; thousands of muslims/Turks were exiled also from Balkans and Greece and southern parts of the Ottoman Empire. (including my own family!). the politics of these countries were for their own sake, but when Ottoman decided Armenian's exile, it becomes a war crime? that's called "insincerity" at least. Ottoman didnt lead a war as an execution of Armenians or any other race or nation. what was done, even if it was purposely, was mutual in the atmosphere of world war.

huh i should also admit that Ottoman politicians were not such clever to prepare an execution, a structured genocide plan towards any non-muslim population at the empire. the intent&aim of Ottoman at 1st World War was totally different, and unfortunately what we got was just ruins.

I dont support any kind of exile, being refugee, or any kind of war caused by the clashes of power & economics. I'm a desperate peace child of '60s. But unfortunately, that doesnt help anything.

I think such an article of my ideas is enough to express myself; you see i'm not a sympathizer of a significant side. I'm not black or white. I just try to be neutral, which is mostly needed in my opinion.

Finally, anyway, yes i want to be loved -may be love is a huge verb, like is more proper- by Poles in personal; because i plan to study on their country, history and cinema in two years time and i need help! But i want to be liked with my honesty and neutral ideas.

I might choose not to tell my identity; even my nickname is originally a Greek word. but i proud to be a Turk with pluses and minuses; however i believe self-criticism is the very first rule before getting contact on a foreign platform.

i think that's all i can say for now . i just talked enough.

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

I'm glad to we could get agree :)

Nationalist economic programs of Ataturk and newly founded republic were also so socialist reforms. today, liberal economic rules are against Turkey economy, and it gets worse and worse everyday. Turkey needs to re-nationalize its main economic sources before it's too late.

however, i think here is not the correct place for two Turkish people to discuss their country's economic situation in the language of globalization !:)

P.s. by the way nice to meet you rock.


it would be great when these values meet with the modern & civilized behaviors.
Maybe uneasy German citizens will see the "enlightened" side of the moon....

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

First of all, global (or should i say common?) human behaviors should not be limited upon only one nation, race or society.
Any woman from any nation could be a slut; or any man from any nation or race could be a pervert. a discussion of genital parts and sexuality doesnt help any one to find a point.

on the other hand, why I am obliged to learn history from one-sided articles and academics of western world? Nevertheless, i dont support ignoring politics of Turkish goverments and what was thought in school books.

Something had happened, but i again say it was mutual on war conditions. Does any one know how many Turkish people were forced to exile from Balkans and Aegean Islands?

Or how many of them were killed by local authorities and bandits? My own grand grand-father were killed in Crete while he was trying to save his family from the exile forced by Greek authorities.

Does it make sense to demand lands of Western Thrace from Greece now?
However, Turkish population there was higher before 1st World War, and many of these people were killed and whom survived had forced to exile to Anatolia.

If you dont know the word "mutual" please look up a dictionary and re-read the rules of "war reality"...

Life / Polish movies with English subtitles [87]

these posts are awesome for me as a student studying on polish cinema for MA thesis! i also gonna examine all of them, thanks so much!

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

I really don't want to involve in that discussion anymore. In the education systems of third world countries children are taught that Western people are always(!) civilized and respectful to each other and to the rest of the world. So, as an European-culture educated Eastern, I don't have any right to accuse anyone with spoiling "Aryan" soil of Europe.

You say "you should see how every turk looks at"; but i don't need to see them, because I already live with them in daily life...

have nice discussions to everyone..

Life / Polish movies with English subtitles [87]

hi again!
i almost looked every thread about movies, cinema and subtitles at forum but i couldn't find anywhere else to write my problem. as i said at the above post i have been studying on polish cinema for my MA thesis and because living in Turkey my sources are so limited to work on a foreign, rarely known subject. both for written academic sources and virtual material. online ordering from amazon or other foreign websites is so hard here because of shipping fee and other problems. i try to come over the academic sources problem through the university library, but the great problem is about movies. i found almost all movies unfortunately by illegal ways (download lets say), but as the bad chance i cant find subtitles except wajda's and kieslowski movies. even for Zanussi or Holland there is no subtitles on internet. i searched every corner of it :)

here my list of films that i have, i must watch but i cant watch without subtitles. the problem is above pleasure and leisure time, i need the subtitles of them urgently to complete the thesis. otherwise i can't watch and i can't write any analysis. and unfortunately i have no time to learn enough polish :((((

please please help me! perhaps i may help you too, with other issues i have specialized on.

Aktorzy prowincjonalni by Agnieszka Holland (1978)
Bez Znieczulenia by Andrzej Wajda (1978)
Kobieta Samotna by Agnieszka Holland (1981)
Barwy Ochronne by Krzysztof Zanussi (1976)
Wodzirej by Feliks Falk (1978)

the thesis is specifically on "the cinema of moral anxiety between 1975-81" so i need these films, i don't need any other recommendations for now. on the other hand if exist, subtitles might be different from eng., i can translate by google, so another language is not a problem. but i cant understand polish dialogs by just listening:(((

you may contact by pm.
thanks already!

i try to introduce polish cinema academically in my country, please help me!