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Posts by aphrodisiac  

Joined: 15 Apr 2009 / Female ♀ 		Last Post: 9 Jan 2013
Threads: Total: 11 / Live: 2 / Archived: 9
Posts: Total: 2427 / Live: 349 / Archived: 2078 		From: Poland, Szczecin- the best city ever
Speaks Polish?: yes.
Interests: lots

Displayed posts: 351 / page 8 of 12
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aphrodisiac   
3 Aug 2010
History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

You're absulutely right, 1938 was the first year when ukrainian nationalism reared its head showing its true face, this was the year when ukrainian fascists first abused polish civilians

where? anywhere?

It is, in so much as Catholics were forced to convert to the Church of England and Catholic churches were burnt down and monastories had their roofs removed (the building was no long able to be used - hence the reason you find so many ruins of old monastories in the UK)

looks like the religious conversion was a political tool to re-establish power.
aphrodisiac   
2 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

You're a gay Ukrainian Jew? That's as low as sub-humans can get. No wonder you are so jealous of the ubermenschen Poles!

I tell yah......it is not easy to be me. lol
aphrodisiac   
2 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

Yes he is, he is probably the most obvious reason why "some posters" are so "patriotic".

of course it is Harry's fault that some people are not able to discuss the historic events in Poland in a constructive way. Bad Harry!!!!

Now was that sarcasm or did he genuinely just assault you there...?

I think you meant "insulted". Sarcasm. I am Ukrainian.
aphrodisiac   
2 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

he is not playing a game, he provides observations about how some historical events are handled on PF by the Polish posters.
If anything some of the posters are playing a game of a "hit and run".
aphrodisiac   
2 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

Rather than attempting to in any way discuss any event in which Poland or any Poles can be viewed as having been in any way less than perfect, can we all just agree that.

it seems to be the case on this forum, which is a sad case indeed, but it seems that at least the posters on PF (Polish) are not ready to discuss history without getting defensive. I have to admit that I am appalled by the discussion style of certain individuals, who are ONLY able to produce offensive statements,instead of providing solid arguments.

Thankfully, this is NOT a historic forum, however it is in no way an excuse to justify the immature behavior of some posters.
aphrodisiac   
2 Aug 2010
History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

That's true. One of the first destroyed Orthodox churches was the Nevsky Cathedral in Warsaw:

true, but if you read the article from GW, the region of discussion is Chelm region, not Warsaw.

The source of Ukrainian Nationalism in XIX/XX c. was the Uniate Church (those 'nationally conscious' Ukrainians).

so are you saying that was the reason why they were targeted in 1938?

There was negative attitude among Polish society towards Orthodoxes. Most probably because they were used by Russian government as instrument of Russification and took over Catholic Churches.

most probably or you are sure about that?

Polish 're-vindication campaign' (that is how they called it) can be seen as next stage of the conflict between Orthodoxes and Catholics (or perhaps even more directly Russian faith vs Polish faith, Russian sphere of influence vs. Polish sphere of influence).

Russian faith or Russian influence, Ukrainian Orhtodox churches in Chelm region were not centers of Russian Faith but Ukrainian faith.

Check CBOS research on how many people know anything about massacres in Volhynia.

what is the % and how is the popular public knowledge relevant to the topic we are discussing.

Perhabs 'revindication' is not often discussed in public because of the same reason Volhynia 1943 isn't.

and what is the reason Volyn is not discussed in public? I have nothing against Volyn being discussed in public provided reliable sources, scientific studies are used, but I hear that both sides have not completed their studies.

70% of Polish Ukrainians were Greek Catholics? I think you meant to say that they were Greco-Catholic from the church and not Greek which refers more to nationality.

yes.

The Ukrainian nationality question in Poland was involved with developments in the church as well as in politics and education. These developments were complicated by the fact that Ukrainians belonged to two churches. In eastern Galicia, they were primarily Greek Catholic; in the northern areas formerly part of the Russian Empire, they were Orthodox.
According to an agreement (concordat) between Poland and the Vatican signed in February 1925, the jurisdiction of the Greek Catholic Metropolitanate of Halych, with its seat in L'viv, was reaffirmed, although its activity was restricted to its three eparchies (L'viv, Przemysl, and Stanyslaviv) in eastern GaIicia.

books.google.pl/books?id=TA1zVKTTsXUC&printsec=frontcover&hl=pl

source:
A HISTORY OF THE UKRAINE, Paul Robert Magocsi, 1996.
aphrodisiac   
2 Aug 2010
History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

Aphro let me make one thing clear, you want us to stand accountable or even discuss about a few dozen churches changed into marketplaces or schools and a few thousand Ukrainians who got money and priveliges to convert.

I don't recall saying anything like that in this thread. Correction: the article states: 120, 10 dozens to be exact. I was not aware of the fact that all of those Ukrainians got money for conversion, could you provide me with some sources?

At the same time your nation denies murdering a quarter of milion of our civilians, continously insults us with false history accounts and shovels its unimaginable savagery under the carpet.

How is that related to me me writing about churches? I have never denied Volyn.

I'm sorry but there's no room to discuss untill Ukrainians shoulder the debt their ancestors drew with us.

I understand that there are certain conditions attached before YOU are willing to discuss the topic. That is fair enough, thanks for letting me know your position on that subject.

Yes it is, lack of any reaction whatsoever when such reaction was asked for or expected is equal to denial. Notice that Poland did apologise for Vistula even though it didnt have to and probably shouldnt, thus far Poland is the only one extending a hand.

fair enough.

If you read my posts months back you'll see i was much more pro ukrainian but the more time passes the more convinced i'm that Ukraine is simply not deserving said hand and it might be better to f*ck it in concert with Russia if it proves too troublesome.

fair enough.
aphrodisiac   
2 Aug 2010
History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

You could ask me!

you are free to add to the comments on this thread.

You can also ask for my interpretation because as you know (should know) facts are not enough to understand reasons and implication of an historical process.

You are free to post your interpretations and opinions, as much as other posters on PF as long as they don't brake the forum rules.

Well, nobody deny it ! (like some Ukrainians Wolyn massacre, sorry )

this thread is not about denial, nor about Volyn massacre.

I would like to ask you why did you deem important to point out such action, for what reason exactly ?

I don't have any reasons besides discussing facts. Please don't ask me this question again, since I will not be able to provide you with another answer.
aphrodisiac   
1 Aug 2010
History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

It weaves and permeates at levels that most don't see. They have their faith, and that is great, but the church too has its agenda and motives which are not always altruistic.

that is true, but there are many people in Poland who see it, including Catholics.

The overriding philosophy of the Vatican sometimes presents itself in a bad way. For me, there must be tolerance of other denominations and not desecration which is the ultimate in sacrilege.

agree, but it is a topic for another thread.
aphrodisiac   
1 Aug 2010
History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

Also, I feel you could be talking more about the deeper agenda of the RCC.

in relationship to this topic or in general?

But that reminds me of a very interesting article in Polityka and the the RCC has been trying to influence Polish citizens during the President Election 2010.

I'll ask you once again aphrodisiac, what your point is?

my point was to prove that this particular action was precisely scripted by the Polish government and implemented. I also found out that the action has started much earlier then 1938, would you like me to point you out to some sources? I would be happy:)

Source: Centralne Archiwum Wojskowe, 3 Dywizja Piechoty Legionow, I.313.3.2

aphrodisiac   
1 Aug 2010
History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

Do Ukrainians burning polish churches as i have proven repeatedly count as violent conversions or just genocide?

Ukrainians never tried to convert Poles, unless you know something that I don't.

Are you saying that Gazeta Wyborcza is lying? Are you saying that Homo Faber -NGO in Lublin is lying, because this is who I am quoting? HMMM......so far you have not been able to refute that 120 Ukrainian churches were destroyed by the Polish government initiative.

Prove me that I am wrong first, otherwise, you effort has been wasted. Oh, well.

I am waiting for you to refute the claim I made in post #1. Please find me sources that it was a lie.

Quoting Seanus:
As for Ukrainian churches being burned, was there a triggering event? It strikes me as odd that they'd just be destroyed for no reason.

I never said that they were all burnt, some were.
Just found this on a historical forum and it relates to the topic discussed:
aphrodisiac   
1 Aug 2010
History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

I thought you were looking for more coverage or even an admission of guilt, aphro.

I cannot control what you think. You have this nasty way of coming across as patronizing.

Are you patronizing Seanus? You might not be aware of this, but I really don't want to spend time on such things at the moment. I would like to concentrate on Ukrainians churches.
aphrodisiac   
1 Aug 2010
History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

Aphro, I think it's because you will see a closening of ties between Ukraine and Poland

I think you are confusing two things here: official relationship between the governments and out conversations on PF about the history, one does not exclude the other. Or does it?

Russia and Poland have visibly got closer recently and Ukraine will form a part of it too.

I don't know what closer means.

Old wounds only serve to jeopardise that process.

I disagree and you prove again and again that you don't know the history of either Poland, nor Ukraine, it is like anybody trying to understand Irish vs English. The wounds are very news considering the time frame.

I know the truth should out more but international relations are in a state of flux and hatchets must be buried.

I don't see the connection, since I am just one person who is raising the issue.

May I remind you that I quoted Gazeta Wyborcza from a couple of days ago????? So some circles in Poland are not afraid to discuss it and you are telling me that it will geopardise the relationships between those two countries? Do you read Polish press Seanus? There is lots more.
aphrodisiac   
1 Aug 2010
History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

Here are some, Aphro; I'll try to look for more.

thanks:)

Incidentally a good history of the Ukraine by Hoffman, which covers the Polish issue.

interesting, thanks.

Here is an example of Polonisation

Here is an example of Polonisation of Ukrainian children.

thanks:)

Germans made us Catholics.

really? That is news to me.

I was alluding to the lack of Christianity present in the sense of forgiveness.

good observation on your part, but how do you know if the said people luck it. I merely pointed out to an interesting article, since I read Polish news on daily basis and I know for fact that this particular action is not widely known in Poland.
aphrodisiac   
31 Jul 2010
History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

Don't you think it's kinda odd to see that this dark chapter falls into the same epoch as my thread about Endecja.

possible, Poland suddenly wanted to be mono- cultural and that was part of the bigger plan.

Btw: Aphro is not Ukrainian, but Polish, just like you.

nope, I am as Ukrainian as one can get. I grew up in Poland though.
aphrodisiac   
31 Jul 2010
History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

Dont you think desecration of catholic places of worship in XXI century by your country is deplorable?

I think is it wrong, but I don't think you are able to discuss anything peacefully on PF - your style is too confrontational for me and very offensive (you don't follow any rules on PF, which I find very offensive), therefore I will refrain from commenting on your posts in the future.
aphrodisiac   
31 Jul 2010
History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

OK, that's fine. Do you want anybody to be held accountable for that crime?

NO, but people should know about such actions. Especially those who have missed that history lesson.
aphrodisiac   
31 Jul 2010
History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

Oh, and you do, aphro? I haven't got the point of your post yet. What I do see is all too many people living their lives in the past. This is the PRESENT, 2010, the 21st century. What are you after, compensation?

That is your personal opinion and I am not interested in it, why is that not clear to you?

It's not clear to me because you keep quoting me ;) Yes, churches were destroyed 72 years ago, i co z tego? Was it bad? Yes. AND?

is is not a widely known fact for some and I quoted the article from Gazeta Wyborcza from today. Pure information. That is my goal. It paints a picture of Poles who often claim to be tolerant not as such. It is about dispelling that myth.

Of course judging by defensive way of posting by Sokrates, I think I achieved my goal:).

I think that should know the FACTS about 120 destroyed churches and religious oppression of the RC church against the Ukrainian church during the prewar times.

My point might not be clear to you, but it does not mean I don't have one, or does it?
aphrodisiac   
31 Jul 2010
History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

As always it's simply a matter of "us" against "them".

I disagree, you are simplifying the issue. The destruction of the Orthodox places (mainly attended by the Ukrainian population was a part of the larger Polish nationalistic action in order to Polinize non- Polish citizens.

I am sorry, again, this is not a thread about Scottish church, please stay on topic if you can.
aphrodisiac   
31 Jul 2010
Off-Topic / Introducing: The Hug-A-Pole-Day! [53]

I remember getting a PM from you saying that I must be the devil (and you really seemed to believe that) as I had reached post #666. Lol. For everybody else reading this, this is a true story, I am not kidding; he actually sent me a PM like that some 2 years ago.

I believe it. I keep one of WB PM for the keepsake. It seems like he was engaging in stalking many people on PF.

I am just surprised that ADM is keeping him, I guess they need the cash. Oh, well.
aphrodisiac   
31 Jul 2010
History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

never mind, obviously you are questioning the facts judging from your post, why get involved then. Next time you want to comment, maybe you should contribute more then just mere disbelief?
aphrodisiac   
31 Jul 2010
History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

Sectarian divides in Scotland are laughable. Seeing differences where there are more commonalities is just lunacy!

it is not the same. I understand that you are looking for the reference point, but sometimes there cannot be one.
aphrodisiac   
31 Jul 2010
History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

this is not a thread about RC.

It seems hard to believe, aphro. Desecrating another Christian church?? What makes the RCC so different anyway?

as much as it is, the article speaks for itself.

very fair explanation.
aphrodisiac   
31 Jul 2010
History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

Gazeta Wyborcza published a short article today about the action taken by Homo Faber organization to remind us about the "dark page in the history of Poland"

translation:
At the end of 1930s, Polish government initiation an action aimed at Orthodox believers. In the summer of 1938 in the Lublin Voividship 120 Orthodx churches and chapels were destroyed. Polish workers, police and soldiers were solely responsible for the destruction. People, who spoke Ukrainian on the daily basis were polonised or were either forced or convinced to convert to Catholic faith.

Another dark page in Polish history discovered.
aphrodisiac   
30 Jul 2010
Love / Polish women are the most beautiful in the world! [1718]

You have a problem.Polish boobs are developed due to genetic reasons because of natural selection.(by polish males).

You don't even comprehend what I was saying. Doorknob

Not like in Brazil where they are still smokin up to 55 :)

most likely plastic surgery.