Life / Are Poles typically nasty people? [42]


What if she's a he and fat?

Edit.

"I think i'm intelligent" is just a f*cking awesome statement to make:)))

History / Is there any part of Polish history that's at least a bit glorious? [196]


Yes but Germany had the luxury of the larger part of its country being developed by the West, i know today Germans claim its their wonderfull job ethics but the fact is they had decades of heavy caliber western support, Poland did not and it was far far worse off then Eastern Germany.

Eastern Germany despite its poverty was the Soviet showpiece, Russia stripped other countries of what little wealth they had and either used it itself or sent it to its eastern german dependency, it left countries like Poland in shambles.

Also i read somewhere in this topic that commies are gone, its a long topic for a completely different thread, suffice to say Poland was never decommunised and commies are still strong here though no longer running the show.

History / Is there any part of Polish history that's at least a bit glorious? [196]

BB eastern Germany even today is sh*t, people preferred to abandon it rather then rebuild so your point is moot.

Also Western Germany was breast fed in a way that makes EU support look like pocket money and i'm not talking about Marshall only.

Communism wrecked economies in a big way.

History / Is there any part of Polish history that's at least a bit glorious? [196]


More to the point Ukraine creates its own version of history thats an outright lie, ignores its crimes and attempts to justify those it can't ignore with comparitavely small polish transgressions.

Glorious bits?

Saving Ukraine from the Tartars/Mongols.
Defeating the Tuetonic Order.
Defeating Turks at Vienna.
Ocupying Moscow.
Defeating Russians in 1920.

And lots and lots more... Polish history has very few black pages and quite a lot glorious ones.

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

Got wikipedia? Type in Ruś Halicka and Kazimierz Wielki, there's your history lesson.

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


I like how you ignored my points aphrodisiac.

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


OK Aphro i would like you to adress the following thesis on my part.

When Poland entered Ukraine in the early 14th century Ukraine was a desolate wasteland with last vestiges of civilisation huddling around the very few cities, the ruthenian princess warred with each other and against constant tartar rides.

Poland brought medicine, metalurgy, schools, political stability and military protection, under polish rule both the Ruthenian and Polish populations thrived, thanks to Poland tiny poor towns like Lwów turned into grand metropolis, without Polands protection and management the region would have never developed and the ruthenian/later ukrainian people would simply destroy each other/be enslaved by Tartars.

So Poland not only brought civilisation but actually saved Ruthenians from extermination, would you agree?

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


By now nearly a quarter of a milion.


If he doesnt reply ill post some pictures for a nice shiny comparison, suffice to say an average ukrainian in ukraine lives like a bloody squatter.

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

Do you have anything else to say about Ukrainian crimes in Volhynia or still attempting to dodge the subject or justify it?

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

To be specific, all legionnaries and former soldiers could move to Ukraine and were given a decent size plot of land but not at the expense of the locals, the ukrainians were apparently very poor at managing the polish province and simply failed to process much of the land as it lay wild.

Most of the villages destroyed by ukrainians during their genocide of polish civilians were either centuries old or newly founded in the wilderness that would otherwise go to waste (there was no organised effort to manage the region by ukrainians).


So pictures of dead polish civilians massacred by ukrainians are "putting you to sleep"?


You have provided no sources at all throught the entire thread.

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

Thats because the entire Ukrainian nobility was Polonised and Ukrainians retained only the least impressive members of their society, everyone noteworthy became a Pole.

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


Do you disagree with it?

Isnt Poland far far more succesfull than Ukraine despite greater odds? Didnt Poland behave decently towards the Germans where in similar situation Ukraine descended into barbarism and genocide towards the Poles?

Face it the gap between our nations is massive and history proves it right.

The moral burden of Ukraine and the choices it made in the past made it a forgotten dump it is today, cutting themselves from the polish heritage which created the foundation of what passes for an ukrainian nation today also damaged Ukraine greatly.

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


To underline how huge was Ukraines failure and how significant Polands success we need to be aware that Polands existence was fiercely opposed and contested by Germany, arguably the most powerfull european state.

Ukraine had plenty of opportunities of coming to terms with Poland in regards to its existence but the ukrainians always chose war and attrocities and being the weaker in the conflict always lost.

This in turn shows how cowardly was the ukrainian genocide of Poles during WW2.

For the first time in 700 years of mutual history Poland was defencless, the compressed feelings of jealousy and hatred that ukrainians felt towards their far more succesful cousins could now be vented without fear of polish reprisals.

Grigorij Malinowski - "Brothers in Blood".

This pretty much sums up the reasons for the massacres of polish women and children, Poles were the succesfull upper class, the nation that embodied solidarity against the odds, courage and noble patriotism.

All of those features of the polish nation helped Poland win back its independence, Poles were, for ukrainians an embodiment of all that ukrainians aspired to and failed to achieve, hence the jealous rage of the ukrainians.

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


And Lwów had a 70% Polish population for exactly 430 years by then.

The fact is Poland inherited the lands in medieval times via legitimate dynastic process and governed them ever since, even under Austria the majority of the governing body was ethnically polish.

I'm sorry but ukrainians dont get to wake up after 500 years, just like Jews resigned all rights to Israel leaving it over a 1000 years ago so did ukrainians resigned all rights to ukraine by giving it away to Poles 500~ years ago.

You dont get to take back whats no longer yours, well of course ukrainians decided to try anyway by murdering a quarter of a milion defencless polish civilians.

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


The problem here is the word occupation, Poles have been masters of the place for the past 500-600 years depending on the region, it was their land no matter what the ukrainians claimed.

Of course the ukrainian perspective involved murdering women and children so its no perspective at all.

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


Yessir which proves they're not only primitive but also stupid, you have to remember that its year 1918-19, ukrainians deliberately decide to steal land from Poles exiling and murdering them in the process, holodomor is still a good 14 years away.

Generally ukrainians were divided, cossacks and what passed for ukrainian elite supported Whites while peasantry which made up 90% of ukrainian population supported the reds ie the Bolscheviks.

The same peasants got starved to death 14 years later but you shoul know the saying "revolution devours its own children?" no?

In 1918-19 when ukrainians were getting their arses handed to them by the Poles they were most definitely Bolscheviks or their supporters.


Thats only because of what Wechmracht did to said ukrainians, after a few years of nazi rule everyone preferred communism and ukrainians never tasted wealth or civilised lifestyle like Poles so for them communism wasnt that much of a biggie.

Russians made sure that.

1. ukrainians may continue murdering polish civilians.
2. ukrainians are safe from extermination/enslavement by Germans.
3. ukrainians do not get burned to the ground by Poland for their genocide of Poles once WW2 is over.

No wonder they greeted the Red Army with flowers during WW2, communism not only ensured they could build a country on polish lands but saved them from german concentration camps and polish retaliation.

Sorry BB i read it wrong but they did greet the Red Army later on.

They've greeted the Germans because said Germans initially considered giving ukrainians some sort of authonomy but these were only loose considerations, eventually ukrainians turned out to be fairly worthless as an ally and Germany withdrew from any serious plans simply providing arms so they exterminate the Poles and Jews.

After the war they'd end up on a merry gas chamber/slavery bandwagon all other Slavs were destined to go on.

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

Well the majority of ukrainians indeed supported the Soviet regime and took active part in its attrocities and furthering its interests so polish claims that ukrainians were bolscheviks were quite correct.

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


Dont see any relevant info about ukrainian churches all i've seen in the topic is a lot of pictures of polish churches burned by ukrainians.

Speaking of ukrainian church burning!
stowarzyszenieuozun.wroclaw.pl/sniatyn.htm

Some drawings of polish churches burnt and demolished by ukrainians as well as modern view of a once beatifull polish church left deliberately to rot.

Why are we able to see dozens of pictures of ukrainian atrocities, evidence of destroying polish churches and heritage yet not ONE picture of killed ukrainians or a destroyed ukrainian church?

Why in this entire topic all the evidence seems to point towards ukrainians as the ONLY perpetrators? Could it be that the bulk of the blame and guilt lies on the ukrainian side?


When did i insult anyone? Its a bloody lie mate, if anything im one of the most patient posters here.

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

Jesus dude you're the last who can make such claims, not only do you run your mouth but quite often fail to back it, stick to the discussion and try not shooting people like you always do.

We're talking ukrainian crimes and polish war of independence, where did that flamewar with bzi came from?

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


Nathan Poland was redirecting 120.000 men from Greater Poland anyway, ukrainians were down the creek without a paddle in this war, you lost just like you lost every other war against Poland.

The only time ukrainians win was against women and children, when they were about to face polish armies they, as always failed.

Some of ukrainian victories against unarmed polish civilians: strasznezbrodnie.blox.pl/html

Especially the pit filled with children shows how heroic and noble was the average ukrainian in his struggle for freedom, i mean those polish children were vicious! Especially at 5 years old!

I guess thats why the noble ukrainians killed them using mallets, hammers, sickles, knives and bayonets and piled them into that pit.

But to further show how heroic ukrainians were we cant forget that they formed an SS division fighting for Nazi Germany - heroic and noble SS Galizien who killed only those elderly and children who deserved it!

ukrainian SS.

The remains of polish civilians, proud freedom fighting ukrainian SS must've been proud when it shot people who had no way of defending themselves, question is where was UPA and SS galizien when polish soldiers came back to the eastern provinces? Oh right hiding in the woods.

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


Their army would be smaller by about 10% if they didnt get help from the West, not much of a difference, they'd still win.


Neither is true, French sent only some rifles and the blue army which in the larger scheme of things did not matter that much and french generals proposed strategies that would see Poland fail.

It was only the polish commanders who won the battle.

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


You mean between ukrainians murdering Poles and Poles attempting to supress ukrainian terrorism?

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


You mean ukrainians saw polish children and women as enemies? Is that why they skinned our women alive and burned polish infants?


They're both intimately connected MG, you cannot discuss about polish policies without mentioning what exactly Poles were opposing and suppressing.

The extent of murder and atrocities commited by ukrainians proves that Poles were absolutely correct in their perception of ukrainians as barbaric monsters, of course there were decent ukrainians but they were a minority.

First ukrainians helped to snuff out the Jews, then they did the same to Poles albeit with incomparable cruelty.

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


Thats the best summary in a pill i have seen for a long time.

It must be said that UPA conscripted people under pain of death and killed at least 30.000 ukrainians as well but sadly that doesnt make the extent of the ukrainian crime any smaller, the reasons any less cowardly.

Even today ukrainians like Nathan and Aphrodisiac approach the subject dishonestly, Nathan openly denies it while Aphro being a rather smart fellow simply avoids it, this entire thread has one reason and thats to focus on small polish-ukrainian incidents rather then on the Volhynia massacres of the polish citizens by ukrainians.

The fact is Poland had all the power in the world to exterminate ukrainians, even during WW2 Home Army could have easily cleanse Volhynia, it didnt, this just shows that untill the end Poles never descended to the dephts of barbarism ukrainians did, despite the horrific tragedy happening all around them polish soldiers refused to target women, children and elderly like their ukrainian counterparts did.

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


Yeah and that number is rubbish because even the most famous people like Mengele only managed to work through so many people and like Iron said you're a side taker in this issue, fair enough so am i but it doesnt change the fact of what ukrainians did, why they did it and the "why" does not justify the "what".

They acted in a way not even Nazis did, their actions were born out of sheer cowardice, jealousy and a resentment of a nation thats always been more succesfull then them.

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


Not the way ukrainians did, for example Germans didnt cut their victims to pieces while they were alive with saws, ukrainians did:

I mean how much more savage can you get? It doenst get more macabre that this, do you call that fighting for freedom ukrainian?


Except that only very few Jews were subject to torture experiments, more then 2/3rds of Poles killed by ukrainians were killed via torture and indeed it was some of the most savage torture in history, far surpassing what Germans did in savagery if not in scope.


True that but tbh i'm not used to them, the "disney comic" you quote is based on pictures and thats a bit much for me.

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]



I dont cheapen the issue, Germans were cruel yes but they rarely tortured victims beyond their institutionalised death.

Ukrainians on the other hand commited unspeakably horrible attoricities against Poles of all ages, cutting of breasts of women and salting the wounds for example was frequent.

Another way ukrainian freedom fighters amused themseves was by impaling children on pitchforks and carrying them around for people to see, you know a boast of sorts.

Germans didnt do that, death in the camps was horrible but it didnt even come close to savage attrocities of the ukrainian "freedom fighters".

Also again an important issue here is that all ukrainians were commiting the crimes.

After last of the Poles in a village would be tortured to death ukrainian women and children would move in, everything that wasnt bolted down was stolen, got pics of cheerfull ukrainian kids pulling shoes off a 9 year old dead polish boy and then the village was burned.

Not even Germans did those kinds of things.

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

Jews had it easy MG, yeah i know i shouldnt say that but they did, they went from the cattle train to the gas chamber where a painfull 10 minute death awaited them.

ukrainians murdered Poles in a much much worse way which is inexcusable, i'm sorry but alleged attempts at polonisation are not enough to justify genocide at Volhynia, ukrainians are guilty of unspeakable savagery.

Tell me why didnt Poles murder Germans when they regained independence in 1920? Why Poles in similar circumstances could refrain from barbarism and ukrainians couldnt? I'm sorry but ukrainian crimes are inexcusable and without any justification, any attempt to rationalise them is stretching.

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


Well will you take the blame for tens of thousands of children ukrainians - your grandparents among them, tortured to death? You're obviously avoiding the topic as much as you can.

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


Also the disney like drawings are because the pictures were considered far too drastic for the casual reader, i cant bring myself to browse some of the stuff i was sent, kids tied to a pole with barbed wire or with bellies split open are the least you can find.

In this thread you'll find Poles scalped, without eyes or tongues, a little girl dead with broken legs, women cut apart etc, isnt that enough for you?

I'm sorry i dont really have guts to open some of the folders, ukrainian freedom fighters were just too creative with their victims even for me.

A polish child with a belly torn open, one with face beaten to a pulp, bit excessive for a bunch of churches no? More then 30.000 children will be killed, thousands of them like that or worse, i also provided a picture of a young polish woman brave ukrainians cut in half with a saw.

Thats the kind of revenge they exact for a bunch of churches? By your logic Poland should now seek complete extermination of ukrainians for their crimes against our women and children, yet being civilised we dont.

I'm sorry but there's no logical or moral reason for the savagery ukraininans commited, nothing Poland could do or did justifies the ukrainian crimes.