News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

Despite who or whatever was the reason (or reasons) for this crash, I think Poles and millions of people of Polish ancestry around the world, appreciated very much the sincere outpouring of sympathy from the Russian PEOPLE for Poland, when Poland was at its lowest moment this past April 10.

I agree in general that the PEOPLE of Poland and Russia should try to be friends even if the GOVERNMENTS of Poland and Russia are not perfect and there is criticism of them.

As a Polish American, I was raised to be proud of my Slavic ancestry and my parents generally only had good things to say about fellow Slavs like the Russians, Ukrainians, etc.

Although I have questions at times for the Russian government, I don't forget what the Polish Pope said about the Russians. The Pope called the Russians "his Slavic brothers".

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

But Tusk is the one disagreeing with the Russian report on the Smolensk crash. Is Tusk from the PIS party?

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

It seems that you have difficulty accepting Tusk's opinion on the Russian report of the Smolensk crash. Why is that? He's not part of Kaczynski's political party.

USA, Canada / Polack/American Polonia/Plastic Pole "culture" [568]


So as of now you can vote in the next Presidential election in Poland?

So you being an "EU citizen" you can vote in local Polish elections? It allows you to vote in the 2nd round of your city's Presidential election? So you being an EU citizen allows you to vote in some Polish elections?

I'm just trying to get a feeling as to what elections in Poland your EU Citizenship allows you to participate in. It seems like half of the Polish elections you are allowed to vote in.

USA, Canada / Polack/American Polonia/Plastic Pole "culture" [568]


So there are some elections you are entitled to and some you are not? Really?

You can't vote in all the Polish elections?

Can you vote in the key elections like for Prime Minisister and President?

May I ask what elections you have voted in?

USA, Canada / Polack/American Polonia/Plastic Pole "culture" [568]

LOL

You are so full of Baloney. You hate Polish people despite whatever you say.

So do you vote in all the Polish elections?

USA, Canada / Polack/American Polonia/Plastic Pole "culture" [568]


That's a good question to Delphiadomine.

He seems to be offended at just the existence of Polish people.

USA, Canada / Polack/American Polonia/Plastic Pole "culture" [568]


I dunno. Maybe they only want to comment on Russkies? ;)

USA, Canada / Polack/American Polonia/Plastic Pole "culture" [568]

What's also odd and very strange is how somebody who claims to be a "British Citizen" and "from Scotland" is so sensitive about anything said about the Russians.

USA, Canada / Polack/American Polonia/Plastic Pole "culture" [568]

Look in the mirror LOL

USA, Canada / Polack/American Polonia/Plastic Pole "culture" [568]

The worst thing is having Russkies coming to Poland and distorting their identity.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


The current Polish and Russian leaders.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

No the Polish government doesn't want to upset the Russians and its not because they are afraid of the Russians. Its because they want to continue having better political and business relations with the Russians.

There is such a thing as realpolitik.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


You have some good points Seanus.

Lets not forget that currently Poland (especially the current government) wants to improve relations with Russia. Which I think most people, including myself, thinks is a good thing. So this could lead to some complications here.

So given that dynamic and the fact that there was no love lost between the current Polish government and the Kaczynskis, maybe there is a human element where some in the current Polish government may not be as aggressive as they should be in tracking down all the leads in this investigation? It appears the Russian government has been leading the way in this investigation also.

To their credit, the Russian people showed a lot of genuine sympathy for Poland when this tragedy occured. This was not lossed on Poland and the Polish government. Many Poles rightfully appreciated Russia's support when Poland was at its low moment.

Putting all of the above dynamics together, its not outside the realm of possiblity that the current Polish government MAY not want to track down leads that would make Russia look bad. Many Poles and Russians have already said that if there are implications that Russia (the Russian Smolensk aircontrollers, airport personnel, primarily) is somehow guilty in this, that it would greatly hurt Polish-Russian relations that the Polish goverment has worked so hard to make better in recent years.

Also just because a prominent government official picks people to work for him, there are no gaurantees that those people will always be loyal to him. Especially if that prominent government official like Kaczynski, has picked many people.

In every country you have people who are appointed by somebody who later betray that person because they have to tow the line which is bigger then the person they are betraying.

Genealogy / Americans of Polish descent. How many of us are on Polish forums? [216]

cheehaw those are nice pictures of your family.

They look like they became good American citizens :)

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


Well Sunshine I know you are not of Polish ancestry. You have already said that and I already knew that from day one without you saying that. But I do believe you said you were a citizen of Poland, paying taxes in Poland, etc, no?

And no technically I can not be a Polish patriot since I was not born in Poland, I was born in America. But I do have Polish Patriot sympathies. That's why I am not so quick to believe all the "Pilot error" allegations against this poor Polish pilot who isn't alive to defend himself. I believe this poor underdog Polish pilot with all his impeccable credentials should be defended and at least there be consideration that he be given the benefit of the doubt. Its not only the Polish patriot thing to do but its the MORAL thing to do. Especially with all the suspicious circumstances around this tragedy and the fact that it happened in a country that wrote the book on KGB deceptions. Literally.

But its nice to know that an average guy from Scotland like yourself takes this particular topic so so so so so SERIOUSLY. Yes I'm sure the average guy from Scotland feels this way about this particular tragedy LOL

Unless of course your ancestry is........

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

That's what they said about the Polish Pilot who has been accused of "Pilot error". He was HIGHLY trained and experienced.

He was a First class MILITARY pilot. He was the LAST person to ever make a "pilot error'. His credentials were top notch. He was an ELITE MILITARY pilot who would be the last person to be pressured to make a bad landing decision.

He has a top education (He graduated with honors) and honorable military air force background. His integrity was beyond raproach.

Too bad you have no patriotism towards one of the highest Polish military pilots there ever was. Master Pilot Arkadiusz Protasiuk

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkadiusz_Protasiuk

?[/quote]MediaWatch:
There are just too many strange things happening around this Polish crash and its aftermath investigation.

We've already debunked the nonsense posted in that link.

No you didn't.

I find it incredible that you, a so-called Polish patriot is willing to call the Polish military "inept" and "reckless".


So a highly respected MILITARY Polish pilot can make an error but Polish investigators can not?? Oh I see!! LOL

Well as I have told you before my first patriotism is to the United States since I am a Polish American. But if I was a Polish patriot by your definition, I would not be so quick to believe the "Pilot error" repeated big lie by Russia of a highly decorated and respected Polish pilot like Master Pilot Arkadiusz Protasiuk. WHERE is your Polish patriotism towards him?? After going on saying how respectable the Polish military is and how Polish patriots should trust them no matter what, you for some reason don't trust the integrity of this great Polish pilot who was the LAST person to make a "pilot error".

Nothing epitomizes the greatness of the Polish military and Polish patriotism then there top notch military pilots, which goes back to their great battles over Britain. But for some reason you crap on this poor Polish pilot who had impeccable credentials. Where is your Polish patriotism towards him?? Or does that fit into your agenda????

Why is your patriotism towards the Polish military SELECTIVE????

Oh wait, I'm talking to a Retard Russkie masquerading as a Polish citizen LOL No wonder.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


Now Delph that's a very good question. Could they be inept?? It could be a case of Polish investigator ineptness and not lying.

They are human after all.

Would regular Polish investigators be able to detect the sneaky work of former KGB high level Russian officials? It would be basically Polish investigator wits vs Russian KGB wits.

I don't know Delph, I think its possible that the Polish investigators may not know what to look for as far as detecting Russian KGB like foul play.

Its possible these Polish investigators could make mistakes and dare I say be inept. At least when dealing with the Russian goverment, home of the ex-KGB.

Actually I'm surprised that of ALL people, YOU Delph, are NOW defending Polish people from charges of being inept.

How do we know these Polish investigators are not RECKLESS??

I mean afterall you just said the other day the Polish air force is known to be RECKLESS.

You have been calling Poles in Poland for months now, STUPID, DUMB, RECKLESS, THICKHEADED etc etc BUT NOW all of a sudden you want us to believe that THESE Polish investigators are all competent, smart and brilliant. LOL Give me a break.

Forget about what I think, using YOUR logic, I would think there's a good chance maybe these Polish investigators are not competent enough to do a good job in investigating this. Or at the very least they are not capable to keep up with the KGB sneaky tactics of the Russian government.

Of all people Delph, I would think YOU would have doubts about the competency of the Polish investigators. You know they are POLISH!!! The same people who you for months have ridiculed for being RECKLESS, THICKHEADED, DUMB, STUPID, etc etc.

Also there are just too many strange occurences surrounding this whole Plane Crash. From the video of the plane crash and many other peculiar things. But hey I guess they are all coincidences LOL

There are just too many strange things happening around this Polish crash and its aftermath investigation.

townhall.com/columnists/DianaWest/2010/08/13/polish_plane_crash_investigation_under_suspicion/page/full/

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

You say "Russia had no idea what this box was". How would you know what Russia knows and doesn't know? I would venture and say a country like Russia would know pretty much what most equipment on an airplane is. Especially airplanes that are Russian made. Its silly to say "Russia had no idea what the box was".

Also the Russian government had plenty of time to tamper with any black boxes so even if they were opened in the presence of Polish investigators it means nothing.

Also how many black boxes do you think there were? Just one?

Also maybe other Polish pilots don't want to identify themselves for fear of being attacked by people with agendas like yourself. Anytime a newspaper reports something contrary to your viewpoint on this investigation you attack it.

Tusk is too weak of a president to demand that these important black boxes be given back. If a Russian plane with Putin or Medeved crashed in Poland, don't you think Russia would be demanding to have the black boxes immediately and not just accept TRANSCRIPTS of what the black boxes supposedly said??

It was my mistake that I called Tusk "president". I always referred to him as Prime Minister before. Its good to know you never accidentally misprint anything LOL

Poland can release whatever it wants to release.

It just would be nice if Poland was given back all the black boxes from Russia. Certainly if the situation was reversed, Russia would be demanding for the actual black boxes and nothing less. Wouldn't you agree?

The opening of the boxes in front of Polish officials means nothing when they were kept by ex-KGB personnel. Yeah we all know how honest they are and how they would never tamper or open a box without detection. LOL

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

The transcript of the Polish recorders were imcomplete according to other Polish pilots who question the gaps in the Russian TRANSCRIPT of the recordings and not the actual recordings. Gee I wonder why the Russian government doesn't want to give back the actual black boxes? Hmmmm

Tusk is too weak of a president to demand that these important black boxes be given back. If a Russian plane with Putin or Medeved crashed in Poland, don't you think Russia would be demanding to have the black boxes immediately and not just accept TRANSCRIPTS of what the black boxes supposedly said??

Polish Plane crash investigation under Suspicion:

Point one. Russia hasn't turned over the plane's black boxes to Polish investigators. This may well follow an odd, post-crash agreement between the two countries, whereby Russia provides Poland with recordings of the black boxes and Poland controls the recordings' release (typical Russian-Polish agreement). But it also hoists a red flag over the entire investigative process. After all, "who" might have done "what" to a black box in a Russian recording studio?

Meanwhile, writing in the Polish newspaper Nasz Dziennik, some Polish pilots have challenged the authenticity of the recordings. Among other aeronautical reasons, they cited the length of the transcript, which appears to exceed the 30-minute capacity of a black box tape. The pilots also noted the transcript is missing the signature of the sole Polish expert involved. Further, Polish Radio RMF has reported that one of the Russian-made black-box recordings contains a 16-second gap.

townhall.com/columnists/DianaWest/2010/08/13/polish_plane_crash _investigation_under_suspicion/page/2

Delph I think my viewpoint can take any kind of scrutiny. It only might not be able to with stand the scrutiny of people who have agendas like yourself.

And yes the Russians should have closed the Smolensk airport if it was in poor condition or if there were imcompetent air controllers, but who are the Poles to tell the Russians what they can do in their own country?

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


What kind of plane do you fly?

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


The crash may not have been planned by the Russian government at the highest level. It could have been simply an air controller error that the Russian government does not want to admit to.

MediaWatch:
The accident could have easily been the result of air controller error of giving the wrong landing coordinates to the pilot. Even landing coordinates just slightly off would result in a crash.


So what is the function of the aircontroller when a plane is preparing to land?

There have been reports that actually the aircontroller said it was OK for the plane to land which were referenced in prior links.

Even the incomplete pilot transcript shows that the pilot at the end was trying to abort the landing but it was too late.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

You're also interested in defending the Russian government at all costs.

The accident could have easily been the result of air controller error of giving the wrong landing coordinates to the pilot. Even landing coordinates just slightly off would result in a crash.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

But delphiandomine does not want to do that. He has an agenda. If you read many of his recent posts I think you can guess what it is.

History / BEATS OF FREEDOM - A HISTORY OF POLISH ROCK MUSIC [108]

Softsong,

You have some interesting stories.

Are you interested in Polish American Singers?

I like Pat Benatar a lot. She did not sing Polish rock per se, but she is of Polish ancestry and was a very popular Rocker in the 80's and 90's. I have most of songs still.

Pat Benatar: benatarfanclub.com/biopat.shtml

Love is a Battlefield
...
Shadows of the night
...
Invincible
...
You better run

Hell is for children
...
Heartbraker

USA, Canada / Polack/American Polonia/Plastic Pole "culture" [568]


BINGO!

That's what I've been trying to say about Polish Americans.
I agree with you Softsong. Well said. I've been trying to say that about Polish Americans.

History / POLES NOT KEEN ON REPRODUCING? WHY ARE THERE SO MANY GERMANS AND RUSSIANS? [67]

I heard there can be as many as 3 to 4 million Germans in Germany who are of Polish ancestry. Most of them have integrated well into Germany and speak good German.

Bratwurst Boy has already confirmed that there are at least 3 million German citizens who are of Polish ancestry. Who really knows how many people of Polish ancestry live in Germany?

USA, Canada / Polack/American Polonia/Plastic Pole "culture" [568]


Fair enough.

But with all due respect moderator, why is a nonsense blatantly Anti-Polish topic like this allowed with an anti-Polish slur in the title and anti-Polish slurs and attacks made by the person who started it? Of course the party that disagrees with the anti-Polish attacks is going to react to it. If you're going to allow a nonsense topic you're only going to get nonsense comments on it.

This topic was never meant to get a better understanding of Polish Americans or "Plastic Poles". It was meant ONLY to attack Polish people in Poland and their relatives outside of Poland.

If you look at the comments, the party that keeps pushing the attacks and nonsense is the one who started the topic. But for some strange reason he keeps getting special treatment where he can go on and on attacking Polish people using slur words like "Polack" but God forbid somebody has the opinion that delphiandomine's ancestry is "Russky" and that he is a plastic Russky.

Since Russia has been largely involved in the history of Poland (negatively) would it be OK if I start a topic called "Russkys/Plastic Russians/How Russkys distort their identity on forums to bash Poles"?

USA, Canada / Polack/American Polonia/Plastic Pole "culture" [568]


The only time I am "wittering about Russians" is when I see somebody, who in my opinion is a plastic dumb Russky, going on and on wittering about the Polish people. Other wise I really don't "witter about the Russians" at all.

So basically I don't "witter" about the Russians at all. Just the dumb plastic Russkys who try to fool other people about their ancestry and who they are. This is the same crap you pull on all the other East European forums. You go on attacking Poles, Ukrainians and Americans who say the slightest things about dumb Rancid Russkys. Who are you kidding.

What you do on this forum is just like what you do on the other East European forums. You are on these forums 24 hours a day. Didn't you say you had a job?? LOL

To either party, if this off topic nonsense continues a timeout will be given

USA, Canada / Polack/American Polonia/Plastic Pole "culture" [568]


Well at least they are not Rancid Russkys.