Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


Ok. We have to sort this out once and for all.

You, Fuzzywickets, yourself, brought up SATC. You brought it up because you first asked another poster to 'face it', that 'American women don't like how an unclipped schwantz (??) looks'. I said 'How you do you know?" and you said ...

So you brought it up, citing it as your source for the 'fact' that American women don't like uncircumcised ones.

We all then said that SATC was a load of bull, and no self-respecting woman would reflect the views there. You then launched into a defence of SATC as some kind of bible on female opinion, and as the one TV programme in the world that all women adored. Some of us (well, actually just me, as the only female in the discussion) then said that was also bull. You didn't like this. Someone else then said SATC was written by a gay Jewish guy. You really didn't like this.

So ... you did actually use SATC in your argument as to circumcision being better, because you said Charlotte recoiled in horror from an uncut one, and clearly preferred cut ones, and that American women - and Polish, and women in general worldwide - had the same views.

So you said, effectively: Women are horrified by uncut dicks and prefer absolutely to have them snipped.
You also gave a million examples of why it was verging on the reckless and dangerous to not circumcise.

And I say: bollocks.
Lots of women love the real thing.
And all that nonsense about disease and cleanliness is just that.

So Poland is not backwards. In this.

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]

oh yes that thing guys do ; )

(joke joke joke) (yes of course i work very hard) (just had a few hours of light relief posting nonsense on sites designed to bring out the naked skiver in all of us ...)

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


Penn Boy, where were you when we were trying to fight the barrage of medical 'evidence' thrown out earlier in the discussion? : ) Thank you ...
So there really are no reasons to do it ... apart from cultural ones ... which is the whole point ... but won't be accepted by a few out there, for sure.

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]

you gotta read back the previous posts from f.wickets to understand my comment ...

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


because Charlotte apparently found an uncircumcised one very distasteful, and this is an indication of what all women think, because all women are like the women on Sex and the City, and that is why all women watch it, talk about it and envy the women on it their lifestyles.

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


I don't think I am inventing anything. Is this not you saying that you think it highly unlikely that any woman (American or whatever) would prefer an uncut one?


And is this not you saying for definite (not even that you think ... probably ... maybe ... in general) - that American woman (so, all) don't like them?

er, please see above (your own words).

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


I was talking about Polish women because I thought this was a Polish Forum?


No, of course not - not like the accuracy of your views on how the whole of American womanhood prefers the look of a circumcised male, and lives according to Sex in the City ...

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


omg yes sorry you are so right. i had better quickly see what they all think about circumcision and immediately feel the same. thanks. my life is so much easier and happier now. : D

Maybe I hadn't realised that Sex & the City was the Bible before because of the ill-effects on my brain of my extensive exposure to an uncut Polish male. Crikey. Yeah ... give me the censored, squeaky-clean US alternative ... i'll soon have my thinking in line then, for sure. Gee, thanks.

Ok, finally out of this morass of nonsense is emerging a new thread:

DOES REPEATED EXPOSURE TO POLISH MEN CHANGE THE CHARACTERS OF FOREIGN FEMALES?

I think it might do. Or maybe repeated exposure to nitwits on Polish Forums ...

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


ABSOLUTE BOLLOCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I always think how horrible they look!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, don't want to be mean ... but no, no, NO! YOU ARE WRONG!

'See it for themselves' - as if looked at something marvellous they would love to get their paws on, or their chops around!! No again!

'See how it works mechanically' - ie, how it DOESN'T work mechanically!!

Nope. No way. Utterly unconvinced by any of your arguments.


me too - THANKFULLY.

I may not like Sex in the City, but at least i have the incomparable privilege of lying next to an entire male at night. Before this discussion, I hadn't considered quite how lucky I am - so thank you, Fuzzywickets, and Dodgefan, in particular, for highlighting that for me. : )

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


yes, yes, yes.

I am not, for example, Charlotte, and nor would I react like her. And I think very very very differently to an American woman, on a host of very important details, I think. Not that this is about me ... but bloody hell, it's bad enough generalising that all women (or men for that matter) think the same, and then to say that all women think like American women, NO! NOT TRUE!

Fuzzywickets, you cannot tell me that I prefer (or would prefer) an uncut dick, because you are WRONG, and also completely unqualified to make that judgement.

You are not a woman. You are not a European.

(erm, just realised I am actually the only female in this discussion now ... ok ... so I have to stand up for our love rights or whatever it is ... and I did actually ask a few Polish female friends of mine their opinion, and they generally did NOT go for the circumcised option, so does that make them not women, or not American, or not normal, or what now? am totally confused ; )


It was kind of funny once, but became very silly, and especially the films ... couldn't watch the last one as was too stupid. Sorry. I guess that also makes me not a woman. Oops. Well, glad nobody chopped the end of my dick off at least ...

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


because the little green men haven't been circumcised and therefore can't think properly, what with all that bacteria swimming around in their backwards brains.


this is annoying me. I mean, what person with even 1% brain function would take Sex in the City as a guide to anything? (and Charlotte, of all little nambies, as an authority on dicks) ...

I know it is nonsense and I should stop even reading it, but ... one last go ... who gives a fxxk what they think in America? Is it the most important country in the world? I thought Poland was.

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


how do you know? isn't that a bit of a generalization? there are a lot of women in america ...

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


I was really meaning those who feel the need to explain on here why they haven't got it ... because it seems they can't just say 'ok, in the States it is widely practised, but not in Europe, which is cool ... their choice' - rather there seems this (almost desperate) need to make everyone agree that circumcision is the best thing, and that anyone who doesn't have it done is an idiot. That's the bit I don't get.

Why is it not practised in Poland? Because they don't like the idea, and they don't have it culturally ingrained.
It isn't practised in lots of European countries.
It is practised in the States largely because of cultural influences.
It used to be practised in the UK, especially during and just after the war, because of cleanliness issues re: hot running water, etc, and particularly in poorer areas (eg, the mining village in Yorkshire where my father was born) ... but now that we all have lots of hot water, it is considered unnecessary and has died out to the point of largely being seen as an unthinkable act.


Could that be because they have not experienced the natural version?

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


Well done. You noticed : )


Gosh, am I Catholic, then? Nobody ever told me (especially not the priest who christened me C of E).

Dogma ... there is also such a thing as medical dogma.


To be honest, I think this is surely only someone who has experience of being both uncircumcised and then circumcised can then comment on.

Dodgefan, you are getting yourself very worked up about this. You are adamant that you are right. You think anybody who thinks otherwise has absolutely no grounds whatsoever for their opinion. You won't accept that there is anything to be said for keeping something natural, that a baby has no choice, that there is any possibility that a foreskin could have benefits or a purpose at all apart from making people ill or dirty, or that we all might like foreskins not because of any religious doctrine, but because we thing it is horrific to cut it off a little baby and then for a guy forever to spend his life having to justify why he hasn't got what he was given ... why he has never ever had the experience of a foreskin. So I guess we all just have to beg to differ.


... but do listen to Modafinil, because he is a voice of reason (regardless of his religious affiliation or nationality).

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


Are you crazy?

How many of the 10 women are going to prefer the one with the sleeve that covers the end UNTIL the (great) moment when the end decides to come out ... and then the fun begins. And afterwards, it goes nicely back into its (specially designed, protective, neat, tidy) cover, until required for use again.

as opposed to ...

one that is always out, always naked, regardless of whether it wants to be or not, and can never reveal itself, or retreat, as that option, and mystery, has all been taken away from it.

And one that has (by all accounts) a jagged ridge of scar tissue all around it. Wounded.

It is designed to come out when it is ready, and go back when it is done. Simple. Effective. Cool.

Even if I was 1 out of 10, I wouldn't care.
But I don't think I would be.

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]

I'm sure Dodgefan might have something clinical and appropriate.

Actually, Urszula is right: why bother with just chopping the end off - why not the whole lot? Problem then totally solved!

Dodgefan? Is that not an indisputable argument? Is that not the absolutely safest way to ensure none of us ever have any medical problems or illnesses or anything unpleasant as a result of contact with such a thing? Given that your argument for circumcision is that the foreskin causes problems, would not so many more problems be solved by total removal of the entire item??

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


I still feel that likening the removal of the foreskin to having a bad tooth removed (forget the wisdom teeth - of course I know they go for a number of reasons, not just decay) - and likening the Polish attachment to the foreskin as a 'superstition', and their 'refusal' to listen to good advice a 'bad habit' - is a very loaded way of talking about this ... and, as someone else said, it isn't just Poland - this is how Europeans generally view the subject.

I think what you are saying is that it is backwards and verging on the dangerous not to see the facts for what they are and oblige families to have this done as routine. Which is fine. That is your opinion, and it is a reasonable one. I think the issue, though, is to do with cultural practice - the business of circumcision is heavily allied to certain cultures, and has been almost forever ... see, for example, Shakespeare, where Othello talks of how he had an altercation with with 'Turk' once, and 'took by the throat / The circumcised dog, and smote him, thus ...' .

These sensitivities are probably the most interesting part of the discussion as far as the Polish angle is concerned.

My comment that I prefer the natural version is simply that - a comment. There are lots of things that it would be more sensible for me to do, but sometimes one has to express one's unfettered appreciation of something beautiful. At the risk of sharing too much, I think the operation of the foreskin is poetry in motion, and it makes me sad to think of that being interrupted. But you're right - probably much more sensible to chop it off. Actually, my brother is one of those very adults you speak of, who opted to have it removed due to problems, and is glad he did - but perhaps the important thing here is that is was his choice, as an adult. To be fair, babies and small boys aren't given the choice. Which is why in a previous comment I suggested the fairest thing might be for only 18+ men to do this, of their own free will. Hopefully they wouldn't have been excessively sexually active before this point, and given lots of women cervical cancer.

And my comment about how nice a day one can have, given our mortal limitation, wasn't sarcastic, actually. It was another pretty sad reflection. To be honest, not sure whether I'd rather have more time, and no foreskins in the world, or less time, and foreskins. It all adds up to the same in the end. We have a time limit. I guess up to us what we do within the time.

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


I don't think you really meant that.

Are you American by any chance? Because my response above was actually a joke. I was joking about not forcing an uncircumcised item down someone's throat, especially given the health risks.


You get root canals because of tooth decay. You get wisdom teeth pulled because of similar problems. Do you really think that a healthy foreskin needs removing like a rotten tooth ... blimey. I am sticking with the Polish guys here. In their entirety! Even if we all get balanitis and die ... we're all going to anyhow, however many preventative medical procedures we have ...

Have as nice a day as one can have, given our mortal circumstances ...

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


I was only trying to put my point across, as well - that apart from the health and medical benefits, there are other considerations. The point about Poland is just that this discussion is clearly angled towards 'Poland is backwards/somehow prejudiced because it doesn't circumcise its males routinely, as part of its national institution' - and I was siding with Poland, because I can see some strong reasons for not doing it.

Let's face it ... however much medical evidence is proposed (and there is always counter-evidence), the main issue is one of culture. And the sub-text of this whole discussion is something along the lines of 'Is Poland's refusal to circumcise, despite the obvious health benefits of this practice, not yet another example of its racism/anti-semitism/imperialism?' ... isn't it?

And I was just saying: maybe they don't circumcise because they don't like the idea of it, and it's unnatural, and seems rather cruel? And not because they are anti-semetic?


I should hope not, especially given the health risks ...

Language / Is the term 'Polak' derogatory?? [254]

Not in Polish. But if you say it in English ... yes, it is totally derogatory, and especially if preceded by 'effing' ...

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


Yeah, I have to say that I imagined the ones saying that circumcision is the absolutely necessary thing to make the otherwise naturally-imperfect male PERFECT, are the ones who unfortunately, when they were tiny babies with only their parents to protect them, were handed over for the snipping.

I am really sorry that happens. At least the practice could be changed so that boys only do it aged 18 plus, with consent (of course!!) ... and the signature of two (impartial) doctors ...

So yep, trying to convince us all that Poland is backwards because they don't do that to babies routinely and don't exert cultural pressure on all parents to do that to their little boys is ... not gonna work, really.

End of thread.

Life / Things that annoy you in Poland. [114]

I hate the mixture of snow and dog sh*t ... really hate that dog sh*t. And the old ladies who stand holding the little red leads of their tiny pooches as they relieve themselves everywhere ... and then when the snow MELTS ... jeez ...

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


It sounds like it might have some health benefits re: in particular the HPV which can cause all sorts of awful things.

However, as a female, I will put up my hand to say that I prefer the uncut, uncensored, untouched version ... sorry ... perhaps that should be the next discussion ...

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]

Saw a pic of a circumcised ahem appendage recently and it was all labelled up, in medical fashion. One label, pointing to a jagged-looking ridge of scar tissue, said 'Scar'.

Call me crazy, but it really didn't look good, and I would question a procedure that mutilates someone's arguably most vulnerable part in this way ... sorry to say mutilate, but it did look a bit drastic ...

Love / Polish women are the most beautiful in the world! [1718]


Sorry ... I must have been tired. I didn't mean that everyone is like that. I just met a lot of (older) people who had that sort of opinion. Anyhow, nothing to do with how pretty or otherwise Polish girls are.

Polish women are often mean because they are hungry/have drunk too much strong coffee. So maybe that explains the thin/beautiful but b**chy ...

Love / Polish women are the most beautiful in the world! [1718]


Oh boy, are you right there ... I will never forget how shocked I was when I discovered that anti-Semitism was the open norm in Poland ... I had naively thought that after what happened in the war, the Poles would be sympathetic to the Jews. Very naive.

But to keep on-thread: do we think, then, that Polish women are considered the most beautiful by Polish men because they are racially pure? I know Polish guys really don't like Polish girls going off with ethnically-different guys in the UK ... especially if of a skin-colour not entirely white ... and there is a kind of international Polish sperm donor bank, but it is only open to those of 'pure' Polish origin ... (I know that's not exactly relevant, but it is quite an interesting little nugget of info, I think).

Oh, and also because Polish guys are macho and WANT their women to be considered the most beautiful in the world ... there is great loyalty to the Polish female among Polish guys, however much make-up and however orange she is. So long as she is thin, she is beautiful.

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


Oh, come on. 6-legged babies are, of course, where something went wrong - but they are not the plan, not how Nature actually intended. Breast cancer is due to chemical pollutants and stresses that we have imposed on ourselves (it doesn't exist in primitive societies), so unfortunately a reaction of our bodies to generally unnatural things. And bad teeth? Do you think Nature intended us to eat sugar by the bucket-load?

I don't know quite why there is such a gung-ho approach to a delicate physiological mechanism. What, is it easier to keep clean if you are circumcised? Frankly if I were a guy, I think I'd rather stay intact and make a bit more effort in the shower ... but I am not a guy, so can't say. Only would say from a female point of view, that I prefer the uncut version. I guess the Polish ladies do as well ...

Love / Polish women are the most beautiful in the world! [1718]


? Did I say I was half-Polish? I am not Polish at all. I am a Yorkshire/Welsh/East London/Scottish/French cross, like any self-respecting mongrel. I just got the Zeta-Jones cheekbones from Wales, and a pair of pretty nice green eyes from the rest.

Yes, as I said, there are some really rough-looking Polish women ... generally the ones on the street rather than the ones in these photos people post here ...

Love / Polish women are the most beautiful in the world! [1718]

Yes, Poles are extraordinarily mean about British women, and generalise in a way that one can't, really, in such a mixed society. What everybody avoids saying, of course, is that broadly speaking, the issues of obesity, looking bad, etc, are attached to class bands. There are some very rough people in the UK, and they are usually either painfully thin, or monstrously fat and ill-kempt. If you look at the girls in Oxford, where I am, you will see a hoard of rough ones, fat spilling over jeans, hair greasy and pulled back, dressed exclusively at Primark, and then you will also see a host of slim beauties from a different class of parent.

We all give this blanket verdict that Polish girls are beautiful, but I have also seem some very rough-looking Polish buggers. An insistence on too much make-up, hairstyles verging on the crazy (and certainly cruelty to the supposedly - or previously - living thing that was their hair), and kitted out in white and pink Nike and Adidas. And a mean look on their faces. And I have also seen plump Polish girls.

So: I would say there is a certain type of Polish beauty which is very appealing, and that in general, the population is more similar, and there are many more of a normal weight. English, Welsh, Irish and Scottish girls - all very different in themselves. English girls seem to come off worst, because there is a wider range of types, and a vast, and growing, group of badly-dressed, over weight. And that is to do with their upbringing, not their genes. And then we get on to a different debate.

There are more mongrels in the UK, though. Poland does have purer racial lines. So I guess that is also what people sense, but don't want to say, as it sounds bad, somehow. Well, no more bad than saying all English girls are fat and monstrous. If so, why are so many Polish guys with English women? Because they are ... generally nicer? ; ) Shall I generalise that there are lots of very hard, ambitious, self-serving, b**chy Polish women? No, because it wouldn't be fair. I know some wonderful Polish women, and I know some absolute cows. And it has to be said that however 'beautiful' someone is, when they behave badly, they look bad.

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


Is this some sort of a joke?

As a normal female, intact as I was when I came out of the womb, I would (as would most of the world) be horrified at the idea that anyone should 'rearrange' my genitals.

So why, please tell me why, should it be ok to chop off someone's foreskin?

The foreskin is there for several good reasons. It has a job to do, as does everything Nature provided. And given that reproduction is our primary drive, and the male organ the primary deliverer of this function ... do you honestly think Nature would have got it wrong??????

Bollocks (excuse the oblique pun) to all this nonsense about 'cleanliness' and 'disease'. I am obviously not a guy, but I understand that if one practises basic, simple hygiene procedures in the shower, it is more than possible to keep your dick clean. ! Suffice to say I have intimate knowledge of an uncircumcised male who is perhaps the cleanest person on the planet. The phrase 'you could eat your dinner of it' comes to mind.

It is a monstrous idea, cutting off the foreskin. OK, if someone has a problem, it is too tight, it hurts them ... ok. That is medical. But as a matter of culture and principle? Maybe, eons ago, when tribes lived in water-less regions, but even then ... sorry. I think it is barbaric. The mechanism of the foreskin is a thing of wonder to behold. Why oh why would anyone even think of messing with that?????