News / Polish Parliamentary Elections 2023 [933]

Hopefully the new Polish government will introduce measures that make those border controls no longer necessary.

News / Polish Parliamentary Elections 2023 [933]

@Mr Grunwald


Personally I am against abortions in most cases. It seems morally wrong to abort a healthy baby just because it does not fit into your life planning (unless it is the result of rape or endangers the life of the mother). But I can not deny the negative consequences of strict anti-abortion laws in practice.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Who knows. What we do know is that the law has a negative effects on the birth rate in Poland.

notesfrompoland.com/2023/10/26/annual-number-of-births-falls-11-in-poland-marking-first-double-digit-decline/

News / Polish Parliamentary Elections 2023 [933]

Yet another reason why Poland will benefit from a new government: The draconian abortion laws implemented by PiS had most likely an averse effect on the (already terrible) demographic future of Poland. Repealing them might help undo some of the damage.

Annual number of births falls 11% in Poland, marking first double-digit decline

notesfrompoland.com/2023/10/26/annual-number-of-births-falls-11-in-poland-marking-first-double-digit-decline/

History / What do Poles owe to Hungarians? [233]

@mafketis


I have read claims that they tried, just more discreetly. Apparantly election districts were not updated to the changing population allocation, which meant that urban areas have fewer MPs relative to the size of their population. They put lots of election booths in villages but fewer in cities. They made it more difficult for the Polish diaspora to vote. Given that and more, it is incredible that the opposition managed to win this election.

News / Future of Polish-Ukrainian relations [632]

Just amazing how fast the PiS government manages to evaporate all the goodwill accumulated in the last 20 month.

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [957]


The EU is not the obstacle. The UK left the EU yet has not managed to come up with a working solution beyond letting the EU handle this and a Ruanda scheme that the UK courts seem to have serious issues with. The obstacle is dealing with the refugees while adhering to the standards of rule of law that defines our civilization.


Simple. Create a data base where all refugees are registered and make sure that they can only claim benefits in the country they are allocated to.

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [957]


It is if you want to live up to the standards of your civilization. Just because Australia has decided to compromise their principles should not mean we do so as well.

Europe could easily absorb a few million refugees per year if we distribute them properly amongst the member states. Once every country takes in their fair share, this crisis will cease to be a problem.

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [957]


You forgot subsidiary protection which makes up most of the asylum applications and is also enshrined in European law.


That has been proposed for many years now, but the practical obstacles are nearly unsolvable. Either the African countries do not want to host them, and those who might want to (e.g. Libya) can not trusted to guarantee proper conditions.

News / Unfulfilled promises by PiS [558]

I won't envy Tusk if he should manage to win the election. The challenges to Poland's economic prosperity are daunting. The demographic decline will soon become visible, and the follies of PiS will reduce his options even more.

News / Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany? [412]


Because the US has a presidential system and the UK, Germany have a parliamentary system.

History / Enemies, Strangers, Friends. Poles and Germans. [82]

@Ironside


And this impression is based on what exactly?


You mean when Germany bailed out Greece after it turned out that the Greeks had falsified their accounts and spent the money on vanity projects like the Olympics and generous welfare programs? At a time when e.g. the Baltic states were in favour of throwing Greece to the wolves? Yeah, that was really ruthless... .


Let us be real here. If Kiev had fallen in a couple of days, everyone would have gone back to buisness. No one would have wanted to sabotage their economy for a lost cause. Poland might have intensified their attempts to diversify their energy supply, but they would nevertheless continued to receive Russian energy for a few more years at least.

@jon357


How do you measure that? If I look at how trade has developed between those countries, I'd hardly find that justifiable.

Poland exported more to Germany in 2021 than vice versa.

oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-country/pol/partner/deu#:~:text=1995-,In%202021%2C%20Poland%20exported%20%2489.4B%20to%20Germany.,and%20Seats%20(%242.31B).

Cut down on your quotes please

History / Enemies, Strangers, Friends. Poles and Germans. [82]


Well, one could argue that the views on Russia differed, but the actual policies not as much, particulary when it came to buying Russian fossil fuels. Poland was smart enough to diversify its' ressource in the long run, but faced the same problems being cut off from Russian supplies. Both countries had the same aim in their approach towards Russia: To preserve the European peace order. Poland had the better understanding of Russia which is something German politicians need to learn from.

And Russia has now been identified as the main threat in the new national security strategy, so there is certainly a lot in common in the future.

History / Enemies, Strangers, Friends. Poles and Germans. [82]

Both countries want to live in peace in prosperity, dont want war in Europe and want to increase trade with each other. Both countries are crucial members of EU and NATO and have identified Russia's Putin as the main threat to their security. Successive governments are most likely to follow those lines.

History / Enemies, Strangers, Friends. Poles and Germans. [82]


Indeed. Leaving aside that this means that neither country is pursuing long-term goals that are detrimental to each other, it also means that both desire the same things on many issues. Which allows for greater economic dependence and cooperation on key issues like the Ukraine war.

History / Enemies, Strangers, Friends. Poles and Germans. [82]


I meant to ask where you see them? There are differences to be sure, but broadly Warsaw and Berlin have the same long-term goals.

History / Enemies, Strangers, Friends. Poles and Germans. [82]


Maybe B.B. can elaborate on his impression on the East German side, but I think I can confirm this for many West Germans. I doubt most West Germans could name a famous Polish author or a famous Polish piece of music.

Western European and American culture is everything here (well and Japanese in certain circles).

Part of this is probably due to the Iron curtain and could be changed in time with positive advertising. Sadly the opposite is happening right now, with mostly negative news coming from Poland.

History / Enemies, Strangers, Friends. Poles and Germans. [82]


Why would Poland and Germany have cross purposes? We want ultimately the same thing. Trade and work with each other and live in a peaceful Europe.

Off-Topic / Terms of Russian Surrender [116]

Flawless Russian logic. They can make claims based on treaties that never existed and disregard treaties they themselves signed (Helsinki, Paris, Budapest the list goes on).

News / Poland is the new military power of Europe. [275]


We had this discussion before. As pointed out back then, there is no legal justification for the invasion. It was not in self-defense, nor sanctioned by the UN. As such it was an illegal war.

Putin may never stand trial because power dynamics may prevent this from happening. Does that mean that his invasion of Ukraine is legal?


It would defeat the purpose of a European army if it could not act in self-defense.

Coincidentally the UK best hope of protecting the Falklands long-term is probably an EU army given that financing the necessary fleet is increasingly beyond them. Bit that is matter after the UK rejoins.

@Bratwurst Boy


Dont mind that one bid. The stronger Poland becomes, the securer we are. I am just worried that they might end up overdoing it and thus financially ruining themselves.

News / Poland is the new military power of Europe. [275]

@Kashub1410


Depends on the circumstances. If North Korea once again invades South Korea and gets repelled, then I would argue that a subsequent campaign to also liberate North Korea would be justified.

The USA deciding to invade North Korea tomorrow without provocation would be a different matter. The fat Kim has a nightmarish regime, but the international community has rules on when the use of force is justified for very good reasons.

The first war against Saddam Hussein to liberate Kuwait was of course fully justified. Just as the war in 2003 was obviously illegal due to the lack of any legal justification. That it also made things much worse for the people in Iraq and neighbouring countries is another matter. One could now point out how participation in that illegal invasion is a sign that a certain country is yet struggling to leave its' bloody imperialistic past behind it, but I digress.

Russia's invasion of Ukraine has at least made it less likely that Poland, or any European country would contemplate another military adventurer in another part of the world in the future.


What has Sweden done to Poland?

@Bratwurst Boy


True, but then again few Europeans back then would have identified with the ideals of the EU. Most had autocratic and imperialistic sympathies.

Really a shame that it took us that long to learn the lesson, but at least it stuck.

News / Poland is the new military power of Europe. [275]

@Bratwurst Boy


Which was why I asked for scenarios because I could not really understand why Poland would want to use the military over the objection of other states. One of the advantages Poland enjoys over Western countries is the lack of colonial ties to other parts of the world. Unlike France or the UK it has no misconceptions of imperial grandeur and does not seem likely to engage in other military adventures. Especially now when its' military plans are (understandably) fully focused on deterrence against Russia. I suspect that if Poland agreed to join a European army, it would be interested in making sure that it would not be used on such endeavours.

Come to which I'd be interested to know if Poland also plans to build modern ammunition production chains? The war in Ukraine has reminded us how much ammunition is used up each day in modern wars and all those fancy Himars and Krabs are of little use without it.

News / Poland is the new military power of Europe. [275]


We shall see. If it becomes clear that Poland - like any European country - can no longer finance a credible military deterrence on its' own then the prospect of losing the ability of waging unilateral colonial wars in other parts of the world might no longer look like such a big sacrifice.

Pragmatism will lead to the creation of a European army. Keeping the welfare and pension system afloat will be a big motivation.

News / Poland is the new military power of Europe. [275]


That they did, along with Germany and other countries and history has more than vindicated that decision. The illegal invasion of Iraq is a blight on the reputation of the USA and those who participated in it, which sadly included Poland.

It is up to the member states to decide under which conditions an European army would operate. I can imagine that it would naturally act automatically in case of self-defence if a member state gets attacked, since we have already similar provisions in NATO and the EU. There will hopefully be restrictions against using it as a colonial expedition force, but who knows what the countries will come up with.


Hardly. I always made sure to include Poland and its' military future in my posts, which naturally include talks about closer military cooperation with other European countries.

News / Poland is the new military power of Europe. [275]


There is hardly a project more worthy of such praise. The EU embodies all the positive political ideals that have been coined in Europe. Democracy and cooperation between states of all sizes. The EU is by its' nature the very opposite of imperialism. There is no supranation l entity in which even the smallest member has that much influence like e.g. Luxembourg has on many issues.


The EU was always a political project with the goal of a peaceful and united Europe. Which is why the argument of the Brexiteers of being "deceived" over the true nature are such nonsense.

It is matter of great pride that Germany has done a lot over the years to keep the EU working, similiarly to how the British are proud of their countries deeds during the WWs. It is not a "Franco-German project" to the extent that it includes others, all the member states have a stake in it and it has been used very effectively by smaller states to further their interests.

Trying to put the EU in a tradition with Hitler or talking about imperialistic ambitions of some member states is really devaluing the meaning of those historical experiences.

On a side note this rhetoric mirrors Putin's views on the NATO as an imperialistic American project for American hegemony. The only politician in our proximity who is still rooted in imperialistic dreams is Putin. All the others have moved on. They still make mistakes and miscalculations, but that simple fact should be easy enough to acknowledge.


What kind of scenario are you imagining? Under which circumstances would Poland want to use an army, but the other European armies would not?

News / Poland is the new military power of Europe. [275]


It is not just a loaded term. It is disgusting slander of the greatest political project that has ever been undertaken. Trying to put the cooperation between democratic countries with the goal of peace and prosperity into a tradition with Hitler is intellectual dishonesty of the highest order.


The benefits as well. No more wars in Europe between European countries that are members and greater security since only a European army will be able to offer protection in the future sue to the rising costs of modern equipment.

Not to mention that I to imagine a scenario in which Poland would want to use an army on an essential issue but would be voted down by the other countries. How would that look like? An intervention in Africa?


And you think that is due to Franco-German malice and not because Poland only gained free access to Europe with its EU membership less than 2 decades ago? Competition is good and benefits the consumer. I doubt though Polish endeavour in the arms industry will pay off for Warsaw though.


Nonsense. Leaving aside that de Gaulle is usually not credited as a founding father of the EU, that he often spoke in provocative terms and that he lived in a time when this was an somewhat accurate assesment of Europe at the time (with only 6 EU members) this is not what the EU was ever about. The EU was founded by people who had survived two world wars and tyranny and who knew that close cooperation and integration were the only way to avoid a repeat of the past and to defend against future threats.

That reconciliation between France and Germany lies at the very heart of the EU should tell anyone with even a modicum of historical knowledge how absurd the comparison with Napoleon or Hitler truly is. But I suppose it is easier for many to claim that they are fighting a Fourth Reich than to admit that one simply does not like foreigners and while blaming the EU for their presence.

coe.int/en/web/about-us/founding-fathers

News / Poland is the new military power of Europe. [275]


Not really. If we talk about Polands' military future, we inevitably end up with discussions about a European army.


A distinction that becomes smaller and smaller with time.

News / Poland is the new military power of Europe. [275]


Not yet anyway. The tendency towards one European currency is very clear though.

News / Poland is the new military power of Europe. [275]


Lets' be real here. The UK may have spent more money relative to its' GDP on defence, but that hardly a reason for complacency when it nevertheless is facing the same sort of deficites as other countries who did not reach the 2% goal.

Britain would run out of ammo in a day if it fought Russia

google.com/amp/s/dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11708161/amp/Britain-run-ammo-day-fought-Russia-Cuts-left-militarys-stores-bare.html

news.sky.com/story/treasury-signals-no-new-money-for-defence-despite-recognising-need-to-rearm-amid-ukraine-war-defence-sources-say-12804037

There were even talks about Germany having to step in for the UK in leading NATO's rapid reaction force.

Fears Britain's armed forces are too small to combat Russia as Nato chiefs ask Germany to stay in charge of 'rapid-reaction force.

News / Poland is the new military power of Europe. [275]


Wishful thinking. There is a consensus amongst the Republican candidates that the USA should be less involved in European affairs and Biden is expected to get under fire in his own party if the war in Ukraine drags on, hence the pressure on Ukraine to succeed in the current offensive.

Europe got extremely lucky when Biden won the election, but the US pivot to Asia is inevitable.


Europe's future is tied to the EU. Europe can only maintain its influence and prosperity in the form of the EU. If the EU fails, then we Europeans are truly screwed and easy pickings for China and others.

That being said the EU also makes the necessary military integration easier.