The BEST Guide to POLAND
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Posts by Sokrates  

Joined: 19 Jan 2009 / Male ♂
Last Post: 1 Oct 2011
Threads: Total: 8 / Live: 6 / Archived: 2
Posts: Total: 3335 / Live: 615 / Archived: 2720
From: Poland
Speaks Polish?: Yes
Interests: Many and varied.

Displayed posts: 621 / page 4 of 21
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Sokrates   
10 May 2011
Love / How do Polish men feel about gender equality? [780]

No kidding

I know the method that can help you: stick your head to the blender and press on button. You will make some pretty colors.

You're a woman, women as a lower lifeform are incapable of speech therefore you couldnt adress me just now!
Sokrates   
9 May 2011
Love / How do Polish men feel about gender equality? [780]

We have though to keep in mind that in feminist countries definition of rape is extended to include several cases which many men are not inclined to consider rape

Feminists need to be raped out of their world view or killed via impaling on a brass fallus as an example and warning to all the other b*tches who think they're human and entitled to an opinion.
Sokrates   
8 May 2011
History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

You have a limited view on German history.

And you have a limited view on history in general.

Poland and Brandenburg-Prussia were in the same situation, both were surrounded by enemies

However the goal of brandenburg opponents was domination, the goal of Polands opponents was extermination.

I agree that Prussia reformed well but could you please tell me when could Poland enact these reforms?
Sokrates   
8 May 2011
History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

The Landwehr was estalished in 1813, after the defeat by the French in 1806. After the French defeat the Prussian army was indeed limited to ~42.000 men. During Fredericks time the army was much bigger.

Militia, i call it Landwehr since i read Wagram 1809 by Bellona but the name stuck in my head.

You are a bit misinformed about Prussias might I'm afraid. Prussia lost around 500.000 people during Fredericks wars, but gained 3 million people, among them 250.000 immigrants. And he tripled public revenues between 1740 and 1786. Bad were only the first few years after the Silesian Wars, but the army was never affected by this, because nothing was more important than the army.

Well apparently it was affected since it shrank to below 30% numerical strength, economy also played a significant part.

So people who spoke a given language back then saw themselves the same as people who did not speak their language?

Correct.

Wrong. Poland had plenty of numbers - look at how big the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth actually was!

Wrong, despite its size Poland was sparsely populated relative to its territory.
Sokrates   
8 May 2011
History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

At that time Prussia had around 190.000 soldiers.

At the time of Kościuszkos uprising? At the time of Kościuszkos uprising the Prussian army numbered 35.000 regulars and 8200 Landwehr which rounds their armed forces at 43.200 men.

At the same time Poland had 56.000 regulars and approx 20.000 magnate militias (private armies), any conflict could only go one way.

There was a reason why it was called a army with a country.

You got mixed up with Frederic the Greats early years i'm afraid, conversly Frederic is the express reason why by the time of first partition Prussia had only a fraction of its former military power, he depopulated and bankrupted his country to a point that, when Poles rose up in Greater Poland the siege of Warsaw had to be lifted since Prussia simply didnt have any troops available beyond the 30.000 soldiers besieging Warsaw.

But ultimately it was Polands own weakness. Poland wasn't the only country which was surrounded by enemies.

Tartars, Cossacks, Branderburgians, Swedes, Russians, Turks, Wallachians, i daresay Poland was the only country so heavily besieged.

Again Polands weakness is a relative term, what Poland lacked during partitions were briliant leaders, the money and manpower was there, the army while weak for the countries size was none too shoddy, at 56.000 people it had modern infantry and cavalry, artillery, what Poland lacked was a strong king backed by gifted commanders, the nepotism rooted these out decades before.

To digress a bit, its the partitions that allowed Prussia to revive its military power temporarily, the heavy taxes and goods outright looted from polish territories as well as 30.000 polish recruits forcibly pressed into service brought the army to 70.000, by 1806 when Napoleon wiped his arse with prussian armies the prussian army was 120.000 strong with more than 40.000 recruits being Poles.

Prussia needed to invade and annex Poland to survive both economically and due to population defficiencies.
Sokrates   
7 May 2011
History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

I think that besides the selfishness of the szlachta and the betrayal of the magnates (all in someone's pay), the problem is that Poland had no standing army

It had a standing army, for christs sake you moron why not try and read something about the PLC?

Nothing to compete with Prussia's army for example.

What? You mean with the 40.000 soldiers Prussia had duriing the partitions? Poland had around 56.000 very modern troops.

And who was against this? All these narrow-minded szlachta.

I'm sorry but the Sejm debated each year on the composition and increase/decrease of the standing army, no one was against it too.

Who opposed Koszcziuzko's reforms and liberation of the serfs - and sided with the Russians? The church and the aristocracy.

Not really no.
Sokrates   
7 May 2011
History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

I was no expert on cold weapon - just read somewhere that epee( or small sword) as a piercing and not cutting weapon was superior to sabre in dueling - however some English officer and fencer showed in XIX th century that he could defend himself from any attack made with a small sword using his sabre

The polish sabre along with the fencing schools is very different from the western type sabre (which was for example heavier) and had a different hilt which facilitated a different type of grip.

The smallsword (epee is a later adaption) was a thrusting weapon, significant part of polish fencing consisted of various thrusts so i imagine having a smallsword provided no real advantage over using a sabre.
Sokrates   
7 May 2011
History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

Crow is f*cking cloning himself at an exponential rate...

you are very wrong on that - have you actually ever been to Ostrava?? - while Poles were once the majority in over half of Zaolzie it is not the case in any area of Zaolzie now from what I can gather

Yeah i imagine Ostrava citizens would be suprised quite a bit.
Sokrates   
7 May 2011
History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

The true fall of Poland was because Poland could not quite conquere Russia. That lead to the Deluge where both Russia & then Sweden lead to Poland's demise.

The deluge was triggered by Polands conflict with Sweden.

If I could turn back time I think Poland & Rusisia should have been allies. Poland & Russia through out history fought the same enemies.
Poland & Russia fought Mongols, Tatars, Ottoman Turks, Vikings, Germans, Austrians, ect ect together.

Russia wanted to expand into Poland, there was no way of forging an alliance as long as both countries were powerfull.

Russia and Germany are not historical enemies actually, quite the contrary...

Yes they are, they developed a business relationship over partitioning Poland but otherwise every time they shared borders in one form or another it led to war.
Sokrates   
7 May 2011
History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

Nothing polish :(

Not a legend see the picture again, thats exactly how the Poles used the swords originally, of course the polish protoplasts to the doppels were also wearing plate armor, the doppels were not so their survivability was kinda lacking (hence forlorn hope name).

You definitely should start to attack such wiki articles....there is no better way to spread your facts.
Alot less people will look into your polish wiki so you better take it up with the english main wiki.

It really pays off!

Its a bother really and i dont really mind if someone says he invented a sword before someone else.

What about the sabre (szabla/szablya)?

Not a polish invention, once BB laughed at me when i compared late medieval an reinessane polish military to Romans in that while they invented quitea few tactics and weapons the real forte of polish military thought was taking various things from other countries and making them better, often a lot.

For example the pavise was originally an italian invention but before Poland no one would ever think of using it to provide a mobile shield wall for actuall fighting infantry, two handed swords have been around for a long time but no one ever came up with an idea of dressing up a guy in plate armor and giving him a sword to break pikes, et cetera.



Sokrates   
7 May 2011
History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

Nun ja...alot of countries are only quite recent developments, not only Poland. Even then the naming in the language of the invention commonly got adopted by the followers.

The point is that of communism, Poland being in the "wrong" team got the cold shoulder in history books for decades.


  • Polish infantry 1502

  • Polish infantry 1570s
Sokrates   
7 May 2011
History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

Polish infantry tactics from the early 1500s.

The company was set up in 5 interlocked ranks, the front rank was where the seargants (commanders of the 5 man team) were set up, wearing plate armor and using double handed swords they prevented pikemen from approaching.

Behind and between the seargants are the pavise bearers, also armed with plate armor they exchanged their double handed sword for a bastard or a polehammer, using their large shields (pavises) they protected the hand gunners behind them.

Third rank is composed of handgunners, unarmoured soldiers with either crossbows or handguns who shot at the enemy from behind the back of the seargants and pavisers.

Behind them are halberdiers who would move up front to protect the unit from the cavalry charge or use their long poles to thrust their halberds between the heads of their comrades adding an effective third row of fighting men.

Yet behind them is the second line of handgunners who exchange with the first one when the first one is loading.

That should tell you where the german doppelsoldners or the Swiss pike/halberd tactics came from.
Sokrates   
7 May 2011
History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

The helberd/pike tactic was brought into Switzerland from Poland by mercenaries who observed it then, admittedly Poles used it in a different manner not using a pike at all (hence winning).

Poland did shape the pike and shot era in Germany, Austria and Sweden chiefly because these countries developed armies to win against polish tactics, untill 1620s Poland stayed ahead, then Sweden came up with a different firing solution for its musketeers, started using fortifications and the polish dominance ended.

Lets try and post em again.
Sokrates   
7 May 2011
History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

Hmmm...sounds french....lived in France....fighted for France...hmmm...just a guess here! :)

Thats 1750, in Poland you have divisions as early as 1650 so either he coincidentally thought about the same concept with the same details and same name orrrrr....you know:))

Anyway here's the pics, they're from 1480 to 1570/1600 the period when Poland was naming the game.

Forum still ******* with me...

A link to photobucket? Try this...it's easier than to upload all here, I think...

I Sir will not be conquered by a f*cking internet forum! Lets try again!


  • Polish light lancers.

  • Polish heavy lancers.
Sokrates   
7 May 2011
History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

Links for reading would be the most helpful! :)

Right now im trying to upload pics and the forum is f*cking with me (i'll dig you up something in english but theres not much) after the partitions most pre-partition Poland history has been wiped from european historiography and our own historians aint doing enugh to promote it.

Aha! The problem is solved!



Sokrates   
7 May 2011
History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

How can a society without a developed urban middle class (missing industry and cities) be "one of the most innovative, tolerant and advanced countries"? Who was innovative and developed this "advanced" country? The Szlachta? Or the serfs?

The Szlachta naturally, it only became stagnant in mid XVII.

untill the end of 17th century Poland was perhaps only slightly backward in military technology (perhaps because the military often used imported materiel or the country imported craftsmen)

Neither, untill around 1630 Poland is ahead of everyone else.
Sokrates   
7 May 2011
History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

I think you should learn some proper manners, buddy. Otherwise people will ignore you, as I'm going to from now on.

Learn about the subject or have decency to ask before issuing opinionated retarded arguments you inbred.

It had land that had too many non-Poles in it who were loyal first to their own ethnicity and not Poland. So it was just a matter of time before these ethnic groups undermined and weakened Poland with the help of outside nations.

Back then there was no idea of ethnicity. People were loyal to kings, countries or religions, nationality and ethnicity in the way you understand it didnt exist untill XIX century.

What??? I thought you invented the legions and then the Romans borrowed it.

No just the division and squad system :) Polish army in VX and early XVI century operated on the basis of squads of combined arms, crossbowmen, halberdiers in plate armor, pavise bearers and mounted troops, they could operate in small units or join together to form larger ones.

Divisional system was invented in XV century and adopted by other european countries throught history becoming the basis of military organisation untill the French invented the corps.

The problem is that you have no idea what you are talking about. At least, learn your own history! What you said is that there were no flaws in the RP. And there were multitude and Koala named some of them which are generally accepted.

Commonwealth had a multitude of flaws like any country but they werent the cause of its downfall, the cause itself was simple, a prolonged period of massive wars.

It was copying from Germans, French and Italians - this is not an innovation.

Copying how? Polish divisions were completely unique to Poland, polish cavalry tactics were also completely unique, polish stormtrooper infantry tactics were used by Poland exclusively, Italy and Germans relied on pike and shot while France used crossbow and heavy cavalry, all of them were overrelaliant on gunpowder using caracol tactics.

Poles did not use pike, infantry used guns as a prelude to storming the opposition with

It lacked civilized government, clear-cut decision-making machine, militarily it was backward with moronic generals leading the army for the Ukrainian Cossack's lunch-time appetizer. It fought with everyone and wanted to be everything. The intestine happened to be too thin.

Is that why Cossacks never could win a war against Poland and won a few battles only after over a century of defeats only to be finally destroyed by Poles in the XVIII century?

Poland was defeated in many battles with the Cossacks and Ukrainian peasants who chased the Polish army with sticks and brooms and no imaginary tactics of yours helped it :)

Not really no, polish nobles were defeated, Cossacks managed to defeat polish army once and never managed to repeat that, nor were they able to do anything with their victory, they managed to hold on to a chunk of Ukraine for a grand total of 5 years untill Poland pacified them again.

It was copying from Germans, French and Italians - this is not an innovation.

What was it copying? Last i checke everyone is using divisions today so it seems they're "copying" Poland:)))))
Sokrates   
7 May 2011
History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

The author of Artis Magnae Artilleriae, Kazimierz Siemienowicz, was indeed a citizen of the Commonwealth

He spoke Polish, he had a natively Polish coat of arms an his name and surname are polish so yeah he's Polish.

And I do not think the Artis Magnae Artilleriae was the first artillery book ever written

It was the first artillery book every written in Europe.

You can read about it in "Historya Artyleryi Polskiej" (History of Polish Artillery) by Konstanty Górski, Warsaw 1902. (available on line from the Digital Library of Wielkopolska

I've got him on my shelf right now. Artis was the first artillery textbook in Europe, in the world it was preceded by Chinese.

As for universities they werent very popular in any place at that time, being educated didnt play off untill more than 150 years later when engineers, writers and such became crucial for the development of european nation, second university though kills the "stale backwards country" argument of the retard i quoted.

The problem with italian artillery books is that what they were were effectively instructional booklets on how to operate a cannon, then came a Pole who described various pieces of artillery, methods of deployment, transport, usage, supporting fortifications, he didnt base it all on others too since he came up with most of it.

Mark you until late XVII century Poland has the most advanced artillery in the world with mortars, falconets, organ guns, the works.

Also Poland is the country responsible for squad and division military units since it was their inventor.

Im sure the serfs felt that too...............

Serfdom was not installed untill mid XVI century, XV century Poland for example was a country completely free, also the serfs in Poland while not free were ceirtanly not slaves nor starving, whereas german peasants had to starve, US ne#ros were downright slaves the serfs in Poland had rights albeit limited and their life was not all that bad.