History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]

He will be subject to a gagging order and duct tape will be slapped on him :)

He will lodge a plea to be released through having Slavic papers. How does Judge Torq rule on this? ;)

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]

£ódź, some Russians are racist and some aren't. Now, can we get off of the racist element as I will keep repeating the truth of some...some...

They are NOT European countries, £ódź. Simples!

Whiy not strike while the iron is hot, £ódź? Tusk, Tadić and the new leader of Ukraine would likely be willing to talk with Putin but we can already see that a pro-Russian figure in Tusk isn't happy with their efforts (Smoleńsk findings). By all means, go ahead but brace yourself for disappointment.

Persistence pays off for sure! Keep working at it, £ódź

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]

Her words are like leaves in the breeze and she isn't malicious with it. Anyway, enough talk about others.

Do you really imagine Russia would drop their visa requirements? Even now, they haven't waivered the requirement. America and Russia just toy with Poland and how do you propose to change that?

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]

Indeed, Torq :) :) Krupnik is prime stuff :)

£ódź, my wife is a self-confessed racist. She doesn't even like fellow Slavs for the most part. Co Ty na to?

Natasa is thinking pragmatically here, £ódź. Not slogans but concrete suggestions for bridging gaps. Snuffing out radical elements is key (paramilitary groups and radicals). Control those like the Yellow Scorpions and the Ustashe and you are doing well. They have no place in a union.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]

The globalists have plans to mix those elements anyway, £ódź ;) Just don't think that they won't be a threat to any union if you started going against them :)

Oh, optimism is healthy, £ódź. I like to see the glass as half full and not half empty. Look at the thread title, it's about threats within Slav central. nothing external. Some here are still talking of Russia flexing its muscles, even in the face of new-found cooperation. Trust and non-denial need to be worked on ASAP. Try telling that to Poles on the streets and watch their reaction, esp older ones.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]

But Russia as the primus inter pares, right? ;) ;)

Haven't you read Animal Farm, £ódź? Some are more equal than others ;) ;)

Are you advocating a return to communism and agrarian reforms as the hallmark of the Union? ;) ;)

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]

£ódź, Poland would not accept subjugation to Russia, simple. Then a radical overhaul is needed as many Slavs are stubborn of their own admission.

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]

I can say that it does help but you have to target the string pullers. For me, I wasn't happy that Scottish regiments got involved in internal Irish disputes with the IRA and UDF. However, fractious disputes are a reality and we have to treat them as such. If you can eke out a common agenda, then fine. I'm just saying that ethnic kin alone is far from sufficient to move forward positively.

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]

Hehehe, you played my card, Torqy :) :) I also criticise, albeit jokingly, those that pretend to have the monopoly on history (defo not me, btw) when they weren't even there. We can all wangle second-hand news any which way we like but we didn't live it.

I was taking a more principled approach, my friend.

Seanus (raises his kieliszek with miodowny krupnik and contemplates romanticism) :)

BB is in for a treat now. Crow and £ódź are here together :) Let's see the Slavic bracia there :)

Oh, Crow, here's to Highlanders :) :) Góraly are the most in touch with their cultural roots :) This is where Scots and Poles are very close indeed :)

£ódź, I love many Poles. They are a brethren of sorts for me. Good people are good people wherever you are.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]

BB is right. The seat of their govt is white Slavic and the rest, well, we know how Russia treats 'the rest' :( :( To exclude Russia would be to set the union off on an unstable footing and they'd instantly become a target.

Slavs have to work with more than their hearts. Celts learned that too :)

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]

This to me is eastern Europe. I think the Ukrainian govt would have largely stayed out of it. I don't know when Juszenko (Yushenko) started his tenure but I can see him organising some behind-the-scenes support for Chechens.

Had Poland got involved in that war, that would have represented a major increase in the likelihood of Poles becoming targets. The biggest problem is guilty by association and I keep reiterating that. The leaders stay safe while innocent civilians become embroiled in nonsense. That's the real threat as was seen in the Balkans and elsewhere.

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]

£odź, I reviled imperialist Britain. I castigated Stalin's regime. I loathed Nazi Germany. I know the main history but what's your point here?

Aha, so Albanians are to get favourable treatment, right? They are the dominant group in Kosovo now.

Not racists? Do you have any idea how white Russia treats those with coloured skin now?? I know from MANY sources exactly how and they are racist scumbags. Poland has a lot of racists too and I've met some. There are quite a few purists amongst Slavs (and anyone else for that matter) and you can't ignore that. I'm from a family that doesn't tolerate racism.

The Brits and Germans gave you some of the best inventions in the world. What's wrong with that?

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]

Precisely! It has those undertones and it doesn't need a union for people to get together. I was telling Crow about a Polish-Serbian exchange here in Poland not so very long ago. I'm sure there are countless numbers of friendly societies that people can subscribe to/join. It comes from the peoples' will and not unscrupulous leaders.

£ódź didn't answer me. My answer was metal concerts. You really get a lot of pro-Slavic types there shouting SLAVA non stop. It recognises common culture. My wife likes black metal and she has videos showing the closeness of Slavs at concerts. However, she is most definitely not a fan of many Russians given the words she uses. Ukrainians she tends to like.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]

Just curious, Nathan. Did Ukraine remain completely independent in Russia's war with the Chechens? To get involved would have been to jeopardise your own security. What did the Ukrainian Parliament say about that war (those wars), if anything?

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]

I said probably, £ódź. You never know with those guys and me being Scottish may be cause enough (though I can't see why)

A sadist? No, just a realist or do you think that war didn't even happen? Slavs killing Slavs on a mass scale. We didn't see much religious tolerance there either.

Insults don't work either, £ódź. A Slavic Alliance would HAVE TO address Kosovo so what's your proposal? That's the question of a mature person, not of a kid.

True, Pennboy. I see where he is coming from but it would be far too much like Us Vs Them.

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]

What would the Slavic Union's stance on Kosovo be, then? The way I see it, Slavic govts are divided on that one. The people are generally pro-Serbia on it. You'd have to address that as it is a major geopolitical hot potato.

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]

Then why didn't that Slavic love work in the Balkans, £ódź? It wasn't like the Bosniaks were all wild Mujihadeen from Arabic countries, was it? They were not so different from other Yugoslavs at all.

Do you want to know where the biggest pro-Slavic sentiment comes from, £ódź? Do you know?

£ódź, those skinjole are a law unto themselves. Me being white would probably get me off the hook, tho

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]

Nah, Natasa is Natasa (trust me)

Because there are multiple problems to be addressed, simple. Think first, act later and not the other way round.

As for changing the attitude of skinheads, good luck. If that is love then I'd hate to see hate :)

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]

In order to overcome history, you need to address one very important reality. I've noticed that a common Slavic trait is denial. There is hope from the Katyń revelations but there is still a long way to go. Take the case of Yugoslavia. Those people are sooo similar, just ask Crow or Natasa. Yet they were able to kill one another willy-nilly. Nationalism and denial don't disappear fast and are left to linger.

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]

So, some sleeper cells to observe Putin and some snipers to take him out if necessary? ;) ;)

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]

Thanks, Pennboy :) The generation gap is a major issue which needs to be bridged. Look at Borrka, he is divided. One part of him likes the Ruskies but the other is of an angry man for what they did to his family. Younger ones didn't really experience much loss which is in sharp contrast to the oldies.

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]

Well, I won't enter a deeper discussion but Putin and Lukashenko would present obstacles to any future union. How do you propose to deal with them?

OK, that would seem to be logical, £ódź, but how would you control some of the more firey elements? What do I mean? I mean, for example, some Ukrainian influences. Have you ever seen the Ukrainian Parliament in session? It's wild!! The Russians at times too. The reality is that many Poles look down on that kind of behaviour and 'etiquette'.

Politics doesn't breed love, £ódź :(

Torq, thanks for the correction :) What nitpicking? That wasn't my intention.

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]

£ódź, I only meant in the terms of helping out weaker powers to redress imbalances. Otherwise, you are gonna have the position where the bigger players rule beyond proportionality grounds.

A union which would have to choose its leaders very carefully indeed!

What incapability, £ódź? I wouldn't generalize in such a dumb way. I was just addressing realities, not fairytales.

viddler.com/explore/frontlineclub/videos/473/

a thorn in the Slavic side in ways but he also embraced the internal divisions which characterises many Slavs. It's about Milosevic, Slobodan. I was not as critical of him as others, nothing like it, but he did approach Tudjman and then we know what happened when Kakadardevo wasn't followed.

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]

Some do, some don't. Torq, don't you feel that many Poles tend to ignore one another? I have been observing this for a long time now. Sorry, but I don't see much natural liking amongst Poles on the streets. Also, they face the same dividing factors as others. Road rage, the dreaded waiting in queues and anger after drinking. This is even more the case with Poles in the UK where it's more of a dog-eat-dog scenario. I guess I've just taken a leaf out of BB's book here and addressed practical concerns.

I understand what you are saying but history is history. I can see the comfort that comes with being in amongst felllow Slavs but there is also a pecking order and BB alluded to that too. Most Poles would not subjugate themselves to the Ruskies and I know this from multiple discussions. Nonetheless, Russia would see the potential to manipulate this potentially powerful union. Another concern is enlightening some of their Slavicness. 'My Polacy' would have to change to become 'My Słowianiny'. I don't think that would be easy given Polish people's constant striving for their own identity. Part of the Polish psyche, and a major part I might add, is the Sandwich Doctrine (my own nonsense here) :) I've really lost count of the number of times a Pole has talked to me about being caught between Germany and Russia. It's like they are still waiting for the numbing effect to wear off and will be doing so indefinitely.

Also, I heard a guy in Lukas Bank talking about Czechs not liking Poles. Now, some do and some don't (as we should all know by now, LOL) but it does seem to me, from discussions with many Poles, that they cannot really follow Czech language but Czechs can follow theirs. In order for a union to work, there must be communication. There couldn't be this complacence that, oh, us Slavs are so similar and understand one another. Well, I've seen differently and Slavs have to tackle in-built nationalism and also put themselves out in order to REALLY understand fellow Slavs. That takes a lot of work and a complete abandoning of the 'oh, this is our land (Kresy, Lviv etc)' mentality. It would be like a marriage and that involves a lot of sacrifice for a common cause. Trust me, as I'm sure you know yourself! The nature of humanity is to identify with your own and accrue for yourselves but we should follow the lead of the Germans in the EU. I mean in the sense of dipping into their coffers to advance the interests of the union's growth. Some German pragmatism wouldn't hurt.

I could say more but that's enough to sink your teeth into for now. Oh, I might just add that I identify with Celts but there are many Irishman that would do my head in. Knowing a bit of their Gaelic (from some knowledge of my own) is a start but that's all it is. Bringing back common culture is hugely important but we are losing sight of that far too quickly.

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]

Mitterand got on well with Kohl. Sarkozy gets on well with Merkel etc etc. They are just the leaders, Torq, those that follow geopolitics instead of looking out for their people. What kind of governments let a problem build up so much without any real protective measures? The answer is the current ones. Only now are Sarkozy and Merkel addressing the problem of the failures of multiculturalism and, while the Germans and French have a common problem there, it is the police that will deal with it.

So, having focussed on just one geopolitical reality, my question to you is this. How do you get the people together and explain the significance of cooperation when there is a lot of suspicion around? A union must be meaningful to the people and not just for politicians who often lazily just side with the West.

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]

Croatians with Serbs? Russians with Poles? Czechs with Slovaks?

You can tell a Russian, 'forget the past', 'forget the past' and he'll think you mean remember, LOL You'd have to overcome the false friends :)

History / Poland in a Slavic Union/Alliance/Federation? [335]

What would this federation do that currently isn't being done? Simple question!

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]

Merry Xmas to you too, Nathan :) £ódź, I know what Borrka was trying to say but what he didn't mention was that being an 'outsider' means bringing an element of detachment and even perspective to the issue.

As for the Sikorski 'doctrine' (LOL), he needs to change the tune and start coming up with some fresh ideas. The man in Slavic by design only but he doesn't have the know-how of sb like Kwaśniewski.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]

Nathan, I don't believe it either, not one bit!! All this nonsense about Iran is just spin! I agree with your first reply.

I've always believed that Ukraine and Poland should work together in a pragmatic way.

I was just saying. Putin is a control freak

Because the nod of the West isn't always a collective nod when it comes to business.

I was just saying, beware of classifications and presumptions. Never assume too much. Plenty here in this region understand the background and also how Russia works.

News / A devestating verdict on the Polish church [279]

The truth, I-S? You are implying only one and that can't be based on numerous, co-existing belief systems. That's the problem with the RCC, it's too self-righteous. Hardly renowned for its demure.