News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

There we go - I knew somebody would eventually say this.

'Oh what, you have some criticisms of the actions of Jewish people? Anti-Semite!!!!'

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

If you help kill other people in order to save your own skin, it doesn't make it okay.

For the umpteenth time Lyzko, we are not refuting the fact that some Polish people did bad things to Jews during the Holocaust, we're just waiting for the Jewish community to admit that some Jews, even if it wasn't a great number, also did bad things, and stop making excuses for them by saying they had no choice. Yes they did, they did have a choice, not to turn on their fellow man. As you said, most of the helpers were killed eventually anyway, so backstabbing their brothers and sister was for nothing. They could have died with honour, but they didn't.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


You think the Jews who saw their fellow Jews helping pack them in to wagons to be carted off to near certain death gave a sh-t that they were doing it for their own survival? You think the Jews who were found hiding in Polish families' homes because another Jew told the Nazis of their hiding place, thought 'ah well, they had to snitch on us to survive, so it's fine?' They must have been horrified to see other Jews turning on them, even if it was just to 'survive.' There are poems and other literature about it, by Jews, talking about the horror of seeing their fellow Jewish brothers doing this and saying that if any of those Jews survive, they must be taken to court and punished accordingly for the crimes they have committed.


Of course there isn't a good excuse for the Polish people who collaborated with Hitler's henchmen. I'm not trying to make one for them - it was despicable. It's interesting that you say nobody ever said Jews were saints, yet you'd be surprised how many recollections of the Second World War, by Jews, appear to show them in this very light - completely innocent, never put a foot wrong, it's the rest of the world that are Jew-hating anti-Semites, always have been and always will be. You know that there are already many Jews and rabbis who push this idea that the reason the Germans built the camps in Poland, was because they knew this nation would be happy to co-operate with them in eliminating the Jewish people. Lies like this have to be challenged.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


Err, and how do you know that some Polish people didn't help the Nazis simply to save themselves? You don't know why people did what they did?

Anyway, to me, turning your 'brothers' in to the Nazis to save your own ass isn't exactly justifiable either. If a Polish person betrayed 10 other Polish people, they were then killed and later, in his defence, the Polish person said 'well I betrayed them to save my own life,' it wouldn't really fly. In the Jewish court however, a Jew using that reasoning would save himself from a sentencing. Interesting isn't it? Shows how different the cultures are.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


And you wonder why people get annoyed with you. No of course Polish people were not perfect and yes, there were Polish people who collaborated or co-operated with the German Nazis, but this is one of many side stories to the Holocaust.

Another is that there were Jews who collaborated with the Nazis too.

So if Jewish people want to mention these side stories during a speech, they shouldn't pick and choose what ones they mention, they should talk about all of them. Yet funnily enough, the Jewish collaborators are never mentioned in the speeches, while the Polish ones are always mentioned. Do you see the problem?

So either we just say, Germany attacked Poland and brought about the Holocaust, but there were people of many other nationalities and ethnicities who collaborated with them too and leave it at that, or if we want to start to get in to detail, then we mention all the different collaborators, not just the ones convenient to mention.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

@delph

So you are telling me that ECJ rules mean a Polish law can be applied to people living elsewhere in the EU? That's insane.

Even if that's the case - I don't see how Poland can prosecute Argentinian media.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


I don't think so. If a Pole living in Poland says Poland was complicit in the holocaust, while he/she in Poland, and then makes off to some other country, then perhaps. However if a Pole living in Britain says it, I doubt the British government would extradite him to Poland to be punished under Polish law, even under pressure from the Polish government.

I think the crux of the issue is that this event [if real] was supposed to be an Israeli-Polish event bringing both nations together, yet so often, when Jews talk about the Holocaust, they like to mention the 'bad Poles' who helped the Nazis. If they want to mention the collaborators every time they discuss the Holocaust, fine, why not mention the collaborators of all nations, including Jewish ones? Why only Polish collaborators? This I think is what annoys the Polish people.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

ditto

Although you mention that the whole event took place in December. The article says Monday. I am assuming this meant today? Where did you get December from?

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


Surely a Polish law can only penalise people in Poland? Just like Israel's holocaust denial law can't penalise somebody for denying the holocaust outside of Israel. I mean, a nation's law can only stay within the boarders of their own nation right? Otherwise what would be the point in having governments with different laws in different countries.

Therefore, a Polish citizen outside of Poland wouldn't be breaking the law if he or she mentioned Polish death camps abroad, just like a Polish citizen wouldn't be breaking the law if they went to another country to have an abortion, for instance because, they felt they were't ready for a baby [a reason that wouldn't be deemed good enough for an abortion in Poland].


What I find baffling, is that he had an issue with the judiciary reform law and refused to sign parts of it, but he signed this law, even though it was much more badly put together than the other one.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


Agreed. The law is badly put together and they will find it very difficult to prosecute anyone with it. It's too vague in terms of who can actually be prosecuted. If Israel and the USA did not get outraged so publicly, perhaps the president wouldn't have signed it so fast. Those 2 nations effectively forced his hand, otherwise PiS and the president would be viewed by their supporters as lapdogs of Israel and the USA.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

Hmmmm. I see they don't give any information as to what was written in the speech and claim that they had to take out something about Polish people who turned Jews over to the Nazis, but I find it hard to believe. Of course it could be true, but seeing the transcript of the speech would be helpful.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


We would have to get a look at the speech to answer that. If it referred to Poland and being responsible for Jews perishing in the Holocaust, they could be. If it just mentions some Poles who handed over Jews, then there is no legal basis for it.

Where did you get this information by the way?

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

The more I follow Daniels, the more I seriously doubt the theories that he is a Mossad agent. He is definitely up to no good, but he's too stupid to be an agent. He has lost his cool and attacked Poland far too many times.

He has told the Polish government what organisations they should ban, he has quoted Gazeta Wyborcza, he flipped out and said Jews had to help the Germans to save their own lives while Polish people did it out of hatred and greed and just yesterday, he retweeted the Israeli journalist who tweeted 'Polish Death Camps' 14 times a while back. If he was an agent, his job would be to blend in, not to get almost the entire nation to despise him.

I think he is more of a PR man with some connections, serving the interests of Israel and the Jewish lobby in the USA, but Mossad agent? Naaaah.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

Hey Lyzko, a link would have been nice.

Here it is for others.

jewishweek.timesofisrael.com/right-boycott-wrong-country

I had a read and have mixed feelings about it. Sure he does talk about not boycotting Poland and how Polish people also struggled, but of course likes to emphasise that they were not treated anywhere near as badly as Jews [usual spiel]. Where he completely loses me is when he decides to chime in about Poland and Hungary being dictatorships under its current governments and how the campaign against Soros in Hungary is anti-Semitic. Sounds like left-wing drivel to me.

And look, here is an anti-Polish letter in response

jewishweek.timesofisrael.com/polish-anti-semitism

News / Goodbye Sunday Shopping in Poland - Hello Electoral Reform [246]

Doug, I still don't understand, why do you live in Poland? Have you committed some crimes in your home country and this was the only way for you to stay out of prison?

News / Goodbye Sunday Shopping in Poland - Hello Electoral Reform [246]

I think kaprys makes a good point. It seems it's only the workers in big chain supermarkets and similar stores that will have Sundays off, but plenty of people will still be working in the industries she mentioned, and many of them too have families.

I suppose, aside from allowing some workers to have the day off, the thought process is also that if most stores are closed, people won't spend their Sunday shopping, but will perhaps go to church with their family and then do something together with them, either at home or in the park or wherever.

Despite that, I have mixed feelings about this law. I see the plus side, but also don't think it was thought out properly. I am usually against laws that dictate to people what they can and can't do or how they should be spending their time.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


A quick Google search - LoL

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

Oy anti-Semitism. Amazing that Jewish organisations have now managed to make this Putin interview with msnbc about themselves.

jpost.com/International/Putin-Jews-might-have-been-behind-US-election-interference-544708

Vladimir Putin answered a question on Russian meddling in the US election by saying "Maybe they're not even Russians. Maybe they're Ukrainians, Tatars, Jews, just with Russian citizenship, even that needs to be checked."

I wonder if Tartars or Ukrainians are also going to react with similar outrage?

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


There we go, someone is trying to unnecessary stir the situation up even more. No truth to it. The USA would be mad to just openly state that they're done with Poland unless they change their law. It would effectively be seen as the USA blackmailing countries unless they are run how they want them to be run.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


I wouldn't take it as fact yet because politico have reported it from some source, so let's wait and see. Would the USA really make it that obvious that they basically just do what the Jewish lobby tells me? I wouldn't have thought so.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

Polish people ought to care, if he is telling the government what they can and can't do. That's a step too far. Of course, for now they don't appear to be listening to him, thankfully.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


I doubt he would lie about the secondary school he attended. He's from London and it is a Jewish Orthodox secondary school. Also, he probably knows how easy it would be to fact check it and figure out he was lying and that would put a dent in his credibility [not that he should have any credibility in the first place]. I do however think he is lying or at least not being fully truthful about particular organisations he is/was involved with in his adult life. It still baffles me that he is being given a voice in Poland.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

Yep, that's a link to his interview with Sieci I was talking about - an interview which he himself is promoting, so he probably did a good job in bullsh-tting his way through it, as I imagine the Karnowski brothers would have asked him some tough questions [or at least that's what they are claiming. I haven't read it].

The more this Poland v Israel conflict goes on, the more I'm finding the most annoying and agitating part of it to be Jonny Daniels and it's pis-ing me off even more that the Polish media [mostly right wing media, sadly] seem intent on promoting him.

He's constantly doing interviews on TVP info, he did this interview with Sieci, he has done various other interviews too. Why? Why does what he has to say matter? He shouldn't have any say in what rules and laws made in Poland. He doesn't even speak any Polish. If he is supposed to be a go-between guy to improve Israeli-Polish relations - improve business between the two countries or whatever, that's one thing, but that can't be it, because he has way too much to say on what laws Poland should and should not bring in and how they should word it, what organisations the Polish government should ban etc.

I agree with you, he isn't who he portrays himself as, but it doesn't look like he is going to go away, and the Polish media, for one, are making sure of it.

It would be so easy for this guy to just fade away from public life in Poland. The media just have to stop constantly doing interviews with him and bringing him in to the limelight. Yet they do it and this is building his profile and making him a more and more significant figure in Poland. I just don't understand why.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

Looks like Daniels was interviewed by the Karnowski brothers for Sieci. He claims there were some tough questions on who he is and what he is doing in Poland. They couldn't have been that tough, if he's happily advertising the interview. He obviously had a [bullsh-t] answer for everything.

He posted it on social media. Check out some of the comments of praise underneath it [screenshot attached]. Useful idiots.

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News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

Looks like the Israeli media lied about the 'freezing' of the law until Polish and Israeli representatives meet to discuss the issue and possible rewording of it.

A Polish government spokeswoman said there is no such thing as 'freezing a law' in Poland and that it will be implemented soon.

tvp.info/36157824/ustawa-o-ipn-zamrozona-rzecznik-rzadu-dementuje-wchodzi-w-zycie-1-marca

@delph

As for Daniels, did you see his recent backslide, as he apologised on social media for things he has said? A few days before he made the apology, he wrote that Jews who collaborated, did so out of fear and because they had to, while Polish people who collaborated, did so out of hatred and greed. This caused much outrage in Poland [unsurprisingly].

I think he realised that less and less people in Poland were liking him. The left and far-right were already against him, and then he managed to turn the moderate PiS supporting right against him too - so there was almost nobody left on his side. It was damage limitation with the apology I suppose.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

Not sure if this is confirmed, because it's in Israeli media and hasn't been mentioned in any Polish media yet [from what I can see], but if it is true, this is a very bad move by PiS, - going to Israel to 'reword' the law. They would lose support over this - it would be perfect for their political opponents.

timesofisrael.com/tv-report-poland-freezes-holocaust-law-is-sending-team-to-israel-to-reword-it

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

I hope he is gone soon but unfortunately there are still quite a few naive Polish people who appear to think he has received a harsh and unfairly reaction and are telling him to keep doing the 'good job' he is doing. My concern is that people like that will motivate him to stay.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

Oh I didn't know he was responding to a picture originally posted by Daniels. Yep and he also mentioned Polish and Jewish people like that are the reason Jews like Daniels are alive today. Good for Kukiz.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

Certain facts certainly didn't seem to add up in what he said. Apparently his mother was responsible for getting her family to safety during the war when she heard their Polish neighbours plotting to turn them in [as he described it], but she would have been a little girl, so it's very strange that she would be able to save her family at such a young age.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

I don't know where to find it on the Polish government page, but Israeli media has the law in one of its articles

timesofisrael.com/full-text-of-polands-controversial-holocaust-legislation/

The law doesn't state that you can't say some Polish people collaborated with the German Nazis and many people seem to be confused about this - that's why there seems to be so much anger. It just doesn't allow you to say that the Polish nation took part in the holocaust in general [as there was no Polish nation. It was occupied].