Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]

The same way that guys in man dresses and flip flops have managed to hobble the most powerful military on Earth for the last 17 years with small arms.

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]

@TheOther

Yes, history is replete with examples of just that. I have immense trust in MY country (you're not American), and I have a healthy dose of skepticism about government and big bureaucracies as a student of history and politics. In fact your attempt at constructing more grotesque strawman arguments is only demonstrating how completely unprepared you are for this conversation and how horrible out of your depth you are. Name one person on either side of the political aisle who is excusing or endorsing school shootings and saying they're a good thing. We pretty much all universally condemn them, the disagreement is on which aspects of policy to focus in order to prevent them. You have a position, its not a morally superior position, its just a position. I am happy to discuss the particulars of each position and the policies being advanced, on their own merits, but not if you engage in sophism and straw man arguments.

Furthermore, do you have anything good to say about America at all? I'm not sure why you chose to move to a country that you seemingly have never made a single positive utterance of in any of your posts to date.

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]

@Joker

I really like Gun Owners of America as a political advocacy group. They are involved in a lot less drama than the NRA, and don't compromise as much, whereas the NRA sells us out sometimes making compromises with Dems. gunowners.org

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]

The 2nd amendment is not about hunting or sporting. It is designed with the express intent as a final check against government tyranny.


- George Washington

Please indulge us with how the above statement is any less true in 2018, than it was in 1776? Governments did not become altruistic in the 20th century, quite to the contrary they marked a period of intense bloodshed and oppression, and 50% of the worlds 190 countries live under some form of totalitarian government.


Legitimately, I've neither the time nor the inclination to deal with someone who unquestionably has NO IDEA what they are talking about. A 17-year long war now in Afghanistan has ham stringed the most powerful military to ever exist in human history, and they've done it almost exclusively with small arms and homemade bombs. You have a real lack of understanding about how easily overwhelmed local law enforcement and governance becomes when there is a popular uprising, so this strawman is oft repeated and it simply isn't based in reality and what we know about insurgencies versus modern day 21st century armies.

I usually don't get too annoyed with most posts, however I will kindly tell you to pack your bags and your opinion and head your ass back to Australia. You knew what you signed up for, and calling an organization like the NRA "fascist" is nothing more than radical left-wing propaganda designed to silence and muddle a debate surrounding the topic, its sophism, the mark of an intellectual midget.

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]

@Kazhmir

Yea, not really sure what you're on about, but you clearly haven't lived in America. My hometown is quite nice, an extremely low crime rate, high property values, and amazing schools.

To your second point. Do you want me to apologize for any of that? Because frankly I don't care, I support American hegemony and whatever is necessary for my people to continue to live better than other people. I think a lot has been done to bring the rest of the world out of poverty, and I'm on board with that, so long as it doesn't mean that Americans have to have less.

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]

As far as I can tell, no one on here is a "gun nut" whatever that is supposed to mean or be implied as a pejorative. There are, people like myself, who are responsible owners with all of our weapons, and who have extensive training in the employment of firearms. The spirit and purpose of the 2A is just as relevant today as it was in 1776. No government is immune from the path to tyranny, as we've seen several democracies this decade revert to strongmen dictators a'la Duterte and Erdogan.

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]


Please spare us the b/s about "dark skinned" anything, no place for that identity politics here. No one gives a flying **** about their skin color, but people do care about their own citizens getting sexually assaulted and having to stay in women only safe zones at concerts and big events, they could be neon green and it would still be a problem if they're creating insecurity as Germany's own crime statistics have verified.

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]

@Atch

The point is that I never want to need it. No one needs one until they need it. The police are not pro-active, they are reactive, they come and take a report ex post facto, after your or your loved ones life has been irrevocably changed. All manner of forcible felonies can occur without firearms; strong arm robbery, assault and battery, assault with a deadly weapon(knife), and rape. I choose not to be a victim, if that time comes. When a criminal utilizes violence to achieve their crime, they've forfeited their right both to self-defense and to life. The state which prohibits firearms from their citizens denies them the most efficient and equalizing tool known, and it protects the criminal from violent and deadly repercussions for their actions. I still pray that I will never need to use my firearm, but if that day does come, I pray that I will use it effectively, with violence of action, and end the life of the criminal attempting to do me harm. I feel that all law abiding citizens should be able to take ownership of their own defense, if they so choose. The state will not, and in fact cannot always be there to protect you.

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]

I'm not sure what those two topics really have in common. Anyway, violent crime and specifically murder has been on a downward trend since the early 90s and is continuing to fall nationwide each year.

pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/01/30/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/ft_17-02-15_crime_310px

In a world where we could remove the firearms from criminals and mental defectives, I still want the right for me and my loved ones to defend ourselves with the most efficient and deadly means possible, and that happens to be a firearm in the 21st century. Firearms are not just used in gun battles, or whatever the perception is. Firearms are an equalizing force that gives me a fighting chance against multiple unarmed but physically superior attackers. Firearms give women who generally have a much smaller muscle mass than men, the chance to defend themselves against a male attacker with superior physical strength. They also provide an efficient means for stopping property crimes, home invasions, and all manners of forcible felonies. No one should be relegated to the position of having to just 'endure' a beating from another human being, or required to flee from a place they have the legal right to be because of the threat of physical violence.

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]

@Atch

I'm not trying to convince them that they should do this IN Europe. I would just prefer that Europeans didn't try to convince us that their way is best for us.

@cms

I don't want to see more guns in the hands of teacher as a matter of policy. I would simply like those teachers who are already licensed to carry firearms to have the option of choosing to do it at work without facing a penalty. For instance, firearms were 'banned' on my college campus, but there was not a state law which made it illegal to have a firearm on campus, it was a university rule. With that in mind, during my time in college when I turned 21, I made the decision to carry my firearm on me (for which I had a permit to do so in the state), and risk the university penalty if I was ever put in a position where I needed it. My calculus was that I would rather be alive or prevent myself being the victim of a forcible felony, and deal with the consequences from the university that might follow. I would have made a vastly different decision if I would have faced a criminal penalty for defending my life or property. The situation that creates, is that the only ones willing to carry firearms in those circumstances are prohibited persons and criminals, as people like myself who care about a clean criminal record avoid breaking the law.

@mafketis/@cms

Right, and I am in favor of decriminalizing all currently prohibited drugs. Almost all of the deleterious side effects of drug use/sale are BECAUSE of their illegality, not because of the drug.

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]

No but your assumption is foolish. That 'some' people who will own firearms are alcoholics, that's true. Some people that drive cars are alcoholics and make the reckless decision to get behind the wheel. It doesn't negate the privilege people have to drive cars because some people abuse it, nor does it negate the constitutionally protected right for people who own guns responsibly to do so, because some people are alcoholics and own them. I agree that the ability to buy firearms should be scrutinized more closely, I am just opposed to your initial argument because it's so incredibly weak.

I wouldn't be opposed to a mental health check with a psychologist prior to obtaining a firearms ID card (firearms purchaser license). The present system of a questionnaire is obviously woefully inadequate. The number of deaths due to guns when juxtaposed with the number of legal owners in America who are responsible, is small. More to the point, the vast amount of gun crimes are committed by prohibited persons (felons, mental defectives, etc). Our focus should be on making firearms more difficult for those prohibited persons to obtain, and figuring out how to go about that. It certainly does not start by punishing the millions of responsible owners who use firearms to protect their lives and property. Nor is there a solution in banning scary features on firearms which serve little functional purpose. So, I think we agree in tighter restrictions on the purchase of firearms, we should think about good ways to achieve that. I think the focus should be on the point of sale, I don't oppose mandatory background checks, mental health screens, and waiting periods, I think those are all perfectly reasonable requests. I would also really like to see penalties for prohibited persons found in possession of firearms, at present the system is such that a convicted felon could be caught with a firearm and be let go on probation, or only 1 year in jail.

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]

Alcohol dependents are prohibited persons from owning firearms. It is in fact the first question you have to answer when filling out a permit.

Law / I have Temporary Resident Permit of Poland. Can I travel out of Poland without visa? [3]

mfa.gov.ua/en/consular-affairs/entering-ukraine/visa-requirements-for-foreigners

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

Really Lyz? C'mon you're an educated and well read individual, that sort of hyperbole is beneath you. You really got social Darwinism and 1930s racist sentiment from someone advancing a libertarian world view for limiting the role of government in personal interactions? Just wow bro, come off it.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

Denigrating someone's sexual orientation or religion, while mean spirited and impolite, and something I would stand up for another person if I saw, is a matter of manners and common decency, but certainly not an area for the state to become involved in policing people's thoughts and feelings about other people or groups. It does not rise to the level of excepted speech or the incitement of imminent violence. Stop trying to move the goal post.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

@shockedInpoland

Who was arguing that threats of imminent violence not be punished under the law? I certainly never have in my life, as that's a clear exception to free speech. There are numerous examples among those 4,000 people arrested who never made such threats, and merely said something very critical of Islam, an ideology, and all ideologies deserve ferocious and brutal scrutiny. That is the danger I see in those laws. Feel free to sign up to the forum and be taken seriously, btw.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

Sure. But you do see the problem with that right, physical violence is an objectively observable and therefore punishable thing. The problem with ' hate speech', or mean and offensive speech, is that it is entirely subjective and based on a person's perception. Atch, i imagine some things I would consider to be offensive you would not and vice versa. Should the state then start sanctioning people based on the individual feelings of what that person finds offensive? How can someone know if something is likely to be offensive to another person? I'm sure you can draw a line at some point, but certainly the net will have to be cast very wide, and we've seen the sorts of issues that arise from that with UK police arresting 4,000 people last year for saying mean things on social media. So, we'll let government draw the arbitrary line in the sand about what constitutes another person's feelings being hurt? Sure, just hope that you realize the implications this has for controversial speech. In the United States people are claiming that having to listen to conservative oriented speakers at their college constitutes 'violence' against them. Others have said that affirming the fact there are only 2 genders is a form of violence that makes trans people feel unsafe. Should people censor their own beliefs in order to avoid running afoul of the law? Certainly in some European countries giving scrutiny to the belief system of Islam is considered hate speech, while openly denigrating Christian beliefs is not. So, I think that this is a totally arbitrary concept of law, and I think it will end up doing a lot of harm.

@ShockedinPoland

Sorry I thought it was quite clear I was speaking about the left/right on social issues only. And rather, I was probably referencing more the American left/right paradigm, but I'll be sure to clarify that for you in the future.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

No not really. There is a very big distinction between hateful feelings or rhetoric, being mean, and physical violence. Only the latter is illegal and punishable by law. The previous two are and should not be purview of the state to sanction people for.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

Lol, hilarious the logical inconsistencies in the lefts argument, they seem to like authoritarianism when its used to brow beat people into accepting their version of social justice by using the states legitimate monopoly on violence. Brilliant.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

You missed the mark completely on this one CMS. You've attempted to conflate a misstatement of fact regarding history with libel&slanderous speech, which are illegal and are exceptions to free speech. A persons BELIEF that an event in history didn't happen can cause physical harm to no one, whereas an intentional campaign of slander does have real consequences for a persons reputation and character. You're comparing apples to moon rocks on this one my friend. If you read what I wrote, I said people should be free to express an OPINION. If I paper the town with pamphlets describing you as a child molester, that isn't an opinion, because I'm intentionally making statements which I know to be untrue, and which are aimed at damaging your character. There is a small movement of idiots across the globe who proclaim the Earth to be flat, and go to great lengths to espouse this view point. Why wouldn't we sanction them? A law like this turns the state into the thought police.

You think it's also possible to voice your countering opinion on this matter without trying to be intentionally rude and insulting?

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

Honestly the motivations of a person who chooses to deny something such as the holocaust really don't matter, if it's from ignorance or malice. The states job is not to police the thoughts of individuals, only the actions. If there are people who make those denials, it's really rather inconsequential, the history books and the status quo still exist, and those of us living here in reality know that the holocaust happened. Individuals have the right to 'deny' or 'affirm' whatever they want, and should be free to express an opinion however ill-informed or intentionally derisive and malicious, so long as they aren't physically harming any other human beings, without consequence from the state. This is a very clear issue of free speech, and its binary.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

@Lyzko

Whose facts? The Russians think that they won the second world war by their lonesome, and that Stalin was Georgian so the pogroms and holodomor were actually Georgia's fault and not the USSR's. I mean, that's quite a subjective distinction. You should be free to espouse whatever view of history you want, it doesn't mean I have to buy into it. The onus is on the reader/listener to do their own research, to look to their own sources, and make their own conclusion. You can deny the holocaust if you like, I'll think you're an idiot, but I don't think you should be sanctioned by the state for being ill-informed or uneducated, and I would venture to say anyone who does think the state should sanction people for espousing stupid things like that is themselves a tyrant.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

@delphiandomine

Maybe the 3rd time is a charm, let's give this another try. Want to justify your nationalistic statements about the State of Israel?

Still waiting on an answer....You do in fact support monoethnic theocratic states in the 21st century? Or is it just this one exception? You also seem to support nationalism in this case as well.................If Europe is for the world, why isn't Israel for the world as well? We should increase the diversity in Israel with migrants from MENA countries, shouldn't we?

From the tone of most of your previous posts on this forum, and how I interpret your political position (left of center), I thought we'd all be in agreement that theocracies have no place in the 21st century. Is this somehow an exception? I thought that Israel was a secular state, like other 1st world modern democratic states? Is that not the case, and it is instead masquerading as a democracy and in fact a theocracy using democracy as a front like other despotic theocracies? Please explain.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

@delphiandomine

Still waiting on an answer....You do in fact support monoethnic theocratic states in the 21st century? Or is it just this one exception? You also seem to support nationalism in this case as well.................If Europe is for the world, why isn't Israel for the world as well? We should increase the diversity in Israel with migrants from MENA countries, shouldn't we?

From the tone of most of your previous posts on this forum, and how I interpret your political position (left of center), I thought we'd all be in agreement that theocracies have no place in the 21st century. Is this somehow an exception? I thought that Israel was a secular state, like other 1st world modern democratic states? Is that not the case, and it is instead masquerading as a democracy and in fact a theocracy using democracy as a front like other despotic theocracies? Please explain.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

I need to also point out the irony here, that many of our left leaning members posting in this thread who are vociferously defending the State of Israel, have in many previous threads decried and denigrated many of us who expressed patriotism or nationalism toward Poland or our respective countries. The irony certainly isn't lost on me in this thread, nor the rank hypocrisy.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

@delphiandomine


I'm really confused now delph. From the tone of most of your previous posts on this forum, and how I interpret your political position (left of center), I thought we'd all be in agreement that theocracies have no place in the 21st century. Is this somehow an exception? I thought that Israel was a secular state, like other 1st world modern democratic states? Is that not the case, and it is instead masquerading as a democracy and in fact a theocracy using democracy as a front like other despotic theocracies? Please explain.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


Doug, the far right could be stopped dead in their friggin tracks if the left who is in power would put an end to resettling asylum seekers in European countries. Pay off a third country to house them, I think Uganda and Zimbabwe, and other countries with struggling economies would be welcome to the idea of Europe footing the bill, in the same way we have agreed to do with Turkey. Agree that those given asylum already will stay in Europe until their countries become safe, if ever, but will never attain citizenship. With those concessions the support for the far-right would evaporate overnight.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

You're all talking in circles. Israel has no business lecturing other countries about their laws while they recruit vigilantes to round up undesirable African migrants because they threaten the 'identity' of the Jewish state of Israel. So while they beat the war drum for an ethno-state, they cast aspersions on others as a rather blatant distraction. You know the saying, don't throw stones when you live in a glass house.

History / Roman Dmowski-Patriot, Nationalist, Anti-Semite? [251]

Given Europe's history with antisemitism it is just appalling to me that now people of your particular political leanings Atch, have decided hundreds of thousands of people with a mindset JUST LIKE THIS, should reside in Europe permanently. Brilliant.


timesofisrael.com/facing-death-chants-and-hate-crimes-swedens-jews-live-in-a-climate-of-fear

History / Roman Dmowski-Patriot, Nationalist, Anti-Semite? [251]

@Atch

What do you mean you have sod all concern for Zionism? So a philosophy and doctrine that leads to the largest open air prison in human history and an apartheid style of governance is of no concern to you? I guess a lot of people said the same thing when Jews were being persecuted throughout Europe, by your logic Atch.

As to the idea that anti-semitism in general is on the rise in Europe, its nonsense. The only place there has been a real rise in antisemitism is in the neighborhoods most populated by people from MENA countries, which is why we saw 3,000 people chanting "death to jews" in Malmo,Sweden. They weren't indigenous Swedes.

Poland's neighbor has experience being the victim of lies such as that. I've no time for human rights abuses, nor do I have time for antisemites, but a peoples collective suffering and past does not excuse them from the mistreatment and subjugation of people in the present.

Ukrainian Jewish leaders challenge report on rising anti-Semitism
By Veronika Melkozerova.

kyivpost/lifestyle/people/journalism-of-tolerance/ukrainian-jewish-leaders-challenge-report-rising-anti-semitism.html