Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@Lenka
Data. Why is there no mention of how many people were polled? That is the absolute minimal basis for which any poll becomes legitimate anywhere in the world.

@jon357
Advocating for a change in the process is not advocating for a change in the basic design of the system. Modernization is to the benefit of everyone.

I do not have to prove myself right, nor have I tried to. I am basing my opinion on obvious things taking place in Poland. You dont know they are obviouos because you do not go to gun ranges. You have your position and wont move from it. Perfect if you are in the stone age, but not a position based on real solid data. How many people were polled? Start there and then start talking.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@Lenka
Your opinion doesnt make it reliable. When you ask for data to contradict it what are you asking for? The data that should have been in the poll the first place?

@jon357
Where exactly is the governments participation? This was a private poll. No head count included so it could have been a poll of all the office secretaries in downtown Warsaw, or all the strippers in Gdansk, but no one knows. Or do you mean the governments participation in the poll taking place in your own mind?

Prove me wrong with data. Real data, not made up bull$hit with no baselines. I do not mind being proven wrong, but I do mind useful political idiots who claim to be an authority and really are nothing more than a parrot.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@jon357
I am saying that the poll posted would never be used for anything because it lacks the absolute basics of proper foundation. Even stupid PiS sponsored polls at least say how many people were polled. This is a kindergarten political poll and nothing more.

Where was CBOS mentioned? I must have missed that in my reading. Or is this in the mysterious government poll that no one seems to be able to find published?

@johnny reb
And there JR is the issue. People only want to cite polls that suit their purposes, when all any intelligent person asks is for real data that can be drilled down and examined. What is the problem with data? Maybe it proves out that their opinion is correct and gives them an iron clad argument? Maybe it doesnt. But without real data, that poll is like my dog's $hit this morning. Runny and and of little substance.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@Lenka
Data and polling when done properly are quiet scientific. Again, this is interesting, but it is not anything close to something that could be considered reliable. 57 out of 100? or 570 out of 1000? Where are these people from? What are their ages? Men? Women? All of these demographic points are critical to making a real insightful poll. It is a political poll and that is it, nothing more. Not saying it is entirely wrong, but it is entirely incomplete.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@Lenka
57% out of how many? What ages? Men? Women? City or rural? These are very important information points. The poll is a political one mentioning left and right sides. Its still interesting, just not scientific.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

Thats an interesting poll. However, there are no numbers or data as to how many were polled and what the real demographics as to ages, sexes, and locations are in these. It is a political poll, it even says so. Good information, only 57% are against though. A little more than half who responded. Fair enough, but who is that? The political information is as devisive as in the USA for sure. Interesting. Thanks Lenka

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@jon357
No it isn't. There is no way to equate interest our of existing ownership.

No, I dont think daily. I do think things have changed since I last looked there is no recent survey within the last year.

And there you have been going this whole time.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

lol as if the numer of registered firearms owners is any reflection of the interest in owning firearms? The numbers have no relation to each other. The government consultation when exactly? Before the war? Since the war? What segment of society was the government talking to? How many were spoken to? Who exactly conducted this research? What were the control measures for this reasearch?

You sound an awful lot like someone who supported mask mandates when they have been proven to be be completely inefective against the spread of COVID. Probably supported lock downs and the destruction of the world economy too. But of course, blind faith in government should be what all people strive for. Look how well it has served Russia and Belarus. The most dangerous phrase in the world, is "hi, we are from the government and we are here to help".

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@jon357
Your funny jon. You have no idea about the level of interest of owning guns particularly when you stated not too long ago that you live in a war zone and not in Poland. But by all means please continue with your know all and all holy point of view. lmfao

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@jon357
You're not an expert on the matter jon. Citizenship is also a requirement to leagally purchase and own a weapon. My neighbor, a Ukraine citizen, married to a Pole was denied due to his nationality even though properly licensed in Ukraine as a former police officer.

As for "lots", well I own a restaurant in Krakow that caters to a very large portion of English speaking expats and English speaking tourists. We have conversations with those people. It is quite common for people from the UK to come and use the ranges, for the experience of it, and as a group bonding activity. When you do not understand how fun shooting can be as a recreational activity, largely because you have never done it or wanted to do it, then you cannot understand how others enjoy it.

Many of us from the US grow up shooting. Whether its hunting, skeet, trap, or other target shooting, it can be very fun and challenging. Measuring windage and other technical matters really engages the mind as well as the body. The idea that guns are just for killing people, or hunting is an uninformed way of seeing things.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@jon357
lol as a Polish citizen I am certainly eligible. Got my documents over a year ago thanks. And FYI, foreigners can go shoot anywhere. Lots of people from the UK at the ranges to fire AK's for the thrill of it.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@Barney
why is uploading a certificate insane? Medical documents can be numbered and encoded for verification purposes. No different than the electronic signatures we all have with our banks.

@jon357
Since you do not live here, you do not understand the current attitudes of police toward people who feel threatened. When you live here, not in Africa or where ever you may be, then you can comment on things with knowledge. While I will be at the range Saturday morning with crowds of others who are shooting and learning to shoot.

All the polls in Poland on this are not current and do not take into account the Russian threat. And if you dont think its a threat, then you have problems with your sight and need to get your eyes checked.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@Barney
Read the thread before opening mouth Barney.

Did I say it was a pressing need or desire? No. Is there a much larger group of people interested now because of the Ukraine war? Asolutely, and the gun range use supports that.

Did I say loosen safety laws? No. I said streamline and modernize the process because the current process is from the stone age.

In Poland, a country bordering Ukraine, Belarus and Russia many more people are interested in gun use, and potentially gun ownership than there were just 14 months ago. But then again, Ukraine kept saying Russia is not preparing an invasion, while Russia said the same. And look at what we have now. Times have changed.

to clarify though. I am advocating for streamling and modernizing the process, for long guns. Not hand guns. Long guns are what may be needed at some point. Hand guns do not win wars.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@Lenka
A reason such as a threat from a former spouse perhaps? Like I mentioned before? Or a past history of violence from someone? Stop being so fvcking sensitive to the use of the English language. If a person has a history of violence, and another person feels a threat, I guarantee you the local Police are going to approve the application as long as every other criteria is met.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@johnny reb
Hilarious. You know one of the reasons to legally seek gun ownership in Poland is for self protection where someone feels or is threatened. It is specifically spelled out as a reason to obtain a weapon. That would require someone to actually read the law to know and understand though.

Don't live in Poland? Not Polish? Just another irritating troll?

I was up at 4:30 JR, in Poland and in the gym shortly after. Your time is your own. Stay up all night. Opinions of left wing rainbow flag waivers mean nothing.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@jon357
And that jon is your mistaken thinking on display. Putin is not going to nuke territory he wants back within the fold. That would make the territory and people in it useless. If he wanted to nuke anyone, Kiev would already be a wasteland. Would he nuke London? Maybe, but not European lands he covets.

Most gun ownership comes in the form of long guns, not just in the US, but in Europe, Poland specifically. A pistol will only be good in small areas. Rifles now, you can pick off an Orc from quite a good distance if you are training and practicing. I would not argue for handgun proliferation.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

And when an Orc comes to your neighborhood, you will offer him what? Your a$$, your wife, your daughter, or will you be crying tears of joy that your neighbor offered him a bullet to the head?

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@jon357
You are simply stupid. You dont address my questions yet seek to delfect. Go grab an rainbow flag and start marching on your own. You do not speak for Poland. There is no voting and clearly defined majority, only a poll which means nothing. Believe polls? Hilary was going to win and PiS will win the next election. How accurate are polls? Not very.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@jon357
Hey dummy, point out one time when I said laws should be changed. I said only that procedures should be modernized and streamlined. Your mental midget assesment is really mindblowing. In the real world Poland is next to a war zone. Pull your head out of your a$$ or what ever LGBTQ XYZ thing you are with and look at what is happening. You fvcking idiot peace love and happiness left wing drum bangers are not in touch with reality. No wonder everyone else on this board gives you so much $hit.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@jon357
You are delusional. You cant even comprehend context of writing. Indeed, this is why the left has such a hard time convincing people they should lead.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@jon357
Realy? Self defense is specifically one of the cited reasons for gun ownership. Looks like you need to get familiar with the laws. Fingerprint safes do not meet what requirement? I was just in a gun shop in Krakow where they are the best sellers. Again looks like you need to get a better understanding of the law. Everybody else? You have notes from the rest of Polands populace? WTF are you smoking?

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@jon357
You really need to get a grip on yourself. The process is reasonable, the time in which it takes to complete it, is not.

If you are well versed with your weapon, going to the process to defend yourself with it and an intruder, you will not have a problem. Fingerprint safes make it not only safer, but faster if needed. Takes less than 30 seconds, and that is plenty of time.

Do you even live in Poland? One such shooting took place in a pub less than two blocks off rynek less than 4 blocks from the police department. Krakow in general is very low crime, but in the last five years, there has been a lot more than before. Notice I only speak about where I live, not about what I think people in other places should do or what some people claim a majority wants. Majority can only be determined by an actual vote. Like PiS got a majority, just barely, but that doesn't mean the oppositions voice or opinions do not matter.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@jon357
No one has a right to own a firearm. I am not proposing this. People should have the option of going through a reasonable process if they want one. Right now, the process is not reasonable in the amount of time it takes. Imagine someone losing their life because of a former spouse killing them in their home while they were in their fifth month of waiting for a home visit. That is entirely possible. Lets not be living in la la land either. Plenty of shootings these days in Poland, plenty of guns available if you want one. Multiple shootings in Krakow in the last few weeks. Three of them connected to people who were former military. The laws are not perfect, and need to be updated to meet todays changing world. What happens if things with Russia get serious for Poland? Think there will be all the red tape when it comes to arming citizens for defense? Not a chance. I hope it doesnt happen, but if it does, you will wish you or your neighbors could protect themselves.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@jon357
I am not saying that psych evaluations should be done on line. But the documents should be uploaded and verified on line, like uploading documents to KRS and then verifying them. Records checks are easy, the government does them on every temporary or permanent resident, they are mandatory and it only takes a few days. Home visits and safe verification should be in person, but it shouldnt take six months or more. That is simply people being lazy.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@jon357
Your opinion is not a majority. You can only know the level of support by taking a real vote. Otherwise, a poll taken with a majority of people in Warsaw is going to be very different from one in Zakopane. I am not advocating for easier, it is not that difficult to jump through the hoops. Streamling the process though is only the right thing to do if you are making the process difficult to get through to begin with. No one should be delayed for months for anything especially considering Polands use of technology. This is not an opinion matter on gun ownership or not, simply a matter of modernizing the process. Prescription medcation is completely modernized here but so much other very important items are not.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@jon357
Not most people because you dont have the opinions of all people. Many people yes, but you cannot say most. And for those who are capable the system should be quicker. So should the automobile licensing system and multiple other systems. This is not a matter of left or right wing politics, it is simply a matter of leaving the Fing dark ages in a lot of government offices. Fifty Fing stamps on a piece of paper to take the same piece of paper to another office to fill out another form to go back to the fist office for fifty more Fing stamps. Yet, you can file papers with the court electronically and verify with your banking app? Please. Give the politics a rest and just streamline the system for guns and many other things.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

Polls are all subjective. While I would agree a majority of Polish citizens are happy with the gun laws as they are, and frankly I am too, the process is cumbersome and slow. One of the things I love about Poland is how the government uses technology and how document verification and other important process's can be carried out through your banking applications. This same process should be used in gun licensing. Uploading the appropriate documents with verifications should be easy to do. The problem is that the process takes far too long because it still relies on too many people to get through the process.

We all know how government works here. It takes forever to get anything done. As an example it has taken three months to get approval for a Fing sign on my building for one of my operations. Three months for a sign? Insane. Why? Because people like to FO and go on vacations, and work slowly, and generally not GAF about what other people are trying to do. Now, if that process would be updated, I think many people on both sides would be happier and this discussion would be not nearly as devisive.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@Cargo pants
This is what I have been saying. When I go to the range, there are more and more people nearly every time. To say there is no interest in firearms or firearm ownership in Poland is simply burrying your head in the sand to what is actually happening around you.

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]

@johnny reb
The power grid would be wiped out completely. A lot of personal electronics not connected to the grid at the time would survive, but if the grids for all internet, communications and power are down they wont be much use unless you have solar or wind capability. It will take years to re-establish all those grids one at a time, starting with those that service industry for parts. Civilian interests would come last.

@jon357
The problem is that you are ignoring the ease in which they are now becoming available, and the rising instances in which people could use protection. Keep your head in the sand if you want, but that would be foolish.

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]

An EMP over any country would be devastating. Not so much for personal use electronics per se, but for the grid they are on. NATO has them and so does Russia. If one of those were to be let off, the only way to build weapons at that point is to machine them by hand, and then you will wish everyone knew how to use a weapon.