Posts by Bratwurst Boy

Bratwurst Boy

13 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

More "lies":
It doesn't get more direct!

...
To deny the German army the possibility of settling down in villages and cities, to chase out the German occupiers from all settlements into the cold of the field, to smoke them out of all living quarters and warm shelters and to force them to freeze to death under the open sky - that is an task not to be postponed, from the accomplishment of which the acceleration of the shattering of the enemy and the destruction of his army depends to a great extent.

The Headquarters of the Supreme Command orders:

1. To completely destroy and burn down all settlements in the rear area of the German troops in a depth of 40 to 60 kilometers from the main line of combat and 20 to 30 kilometers to the left and right of the roads.

That was an official order! There are your thousands of burned towns and villages!
But go on, blame the Germans...

The above is a rendering of the full text of Stalin Order 0428 of 17 November, 1941.

books.google.com/books?id=PGANqVNdjKQC&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=Stalin+Order+0428&source=bl&ots=hhDQsRWTQX&sig=Ua8bjcCj1IIGo-6QBto3mgCx3hA&hl=en&ei=bje6SfDZKIq1-QaxteHLBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result

For some reasons I'm not going to use sarcasm or irony in this topic.

The last outlet of the helpless, bad jokes against uncomfortable truths...but it's not really a funny matter.
But when even russians and ukrainians today openly doubt the soviet narrative about the darker truth's of this war, why can't you even start to think for yourself?

What are you fearing?

Bratwurst Boy

13 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

He is lying on purpose

Where am I lying Borrka? Prove me wrong...I post objective links, not opinions.
It must be hard wading through decades of propaganda but the truth is worth it, believe me, give it a try!

wumag.kiev.ua/index2.php?param=pgs20071/80

...In the soviet times, the history of the second World War was a very sensitive subject and one-volume and many-volumed histories published then were heavily biased; very many facts were suppressed or twisted in an attempt to hide the appalling truth about the war...

...One of the reasons the truth was prevented from being revealed in the soviet times was the unjustified deaths of millions of soviet soldiers and civilians in that war - deaths which resulted from mistakes made by soviet commanders at all levels and from the pressure exercised by Stalin and other soviet leaders to have a city defended or captured, or a battle won at all costs by certain dates, important for propaganda reasons.

You start to sound like a Jew crying "ANTI-SEMITE" every time one criticizes Israel.
Only for you it's either neo-nazi or nazi-apologist...poor sod!
Is Stalin still such a hero for you? Do you really believe his utterings to be the truth?
I never knew Poles believed all what the Stalinists told them...or did the Stalinists only lie about Poland and the Poles and told the truth about the Germans???

...
Stalin called upon the soviets to pursue the scorched-earth policy in his address made on July 3. Not only military installations, factories and other things that could be put to military or other use by the invading forces were to be destroyed, but also all the foodstuffs too. A great many people were indeed evacuated - but millions remained in the territories occupied by the Germans. Without food, they faced starvation. There were many civilian casualties when the soviets blew up factories and other facilities without warning the people who lived nearby - the way it happened, for example, when the soviets blew up the dam of the Dniprohes power station on the Dnipro.

Untold number of the helpless wounded and sick were left behind or physically destroyed. These harrowing things are described in the recently published book, Velyka Vitchyznyana Viyna. Spohady ta rozdumy ochevydtsya (Great Patriotic War - Reminiscences and Reflections) by Fedir Pihido-Pravoberezhny. But in the postwar years, soviet propaganda and servile soviet historians claimed that the evacuation was well-organized and omitted mentioning the horrors of the scorched-earth policy.

All liars of course...

Bratwurst Boy

13 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

You are juggling with facts. There was nothing similar with scorched land from Stalin's side.

Man....you can read, can't you? Google for yourself...
One can lead a horse to the water but can't force it to drink!

Here I am speaking about the facts I know from my grandma who had lived in this time in small village near Moscow.

PS: Be glad Stalin didn't raze Moscow to the ground just in case the Germans got even nearer...but then I remember you telling that a proud and right thing to do even if it would had meant to sacrifice your grandma!

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/3568041/Stalin-planned-to-destroy-Moscow-if-the-Nazis-moved-in.html

PS: Stalin didn't need the Wehrmacht to destroy the land and kill millions of people!
It didn't start with the invasion and didn't end with the fall of the Nazis...

artukraine.com/famineart/mace12.htm

....The further work with this material we leave to posterity. We simply could not endure the pain and horror. Stalin's sociological scorched earth policy maimed Ukraine to such an extent that it created a discontinuity in the normal development of the Ukrainian people, producing a unique situation....

Bratwurst Boy

13 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

Are you out of your senses? And what about thousands and thousands of burned villages and towns?

Ever heard of Stalins "scorched earth" order? What do you think that meaned?

...In case of forced retreat of Red Army units, all rolling stock must be evacuated, the enemy must not be left a single engine, a single railway truck, not a single pound of grain or gallon of fuel. Collective farmers must drive off all their cattle and turn over their grain to the safe keeping of the state authorities, for transportation to the rear. If valuable property that cannot be withdrawn, must be destroyed without fail.

The peasants were left with nothing, the rest took the partisans (and beware if the peasants didn't want to give their last cow)...
And when the red army came back many of them got trialed as alleged collaborateurs and murdered!

(Of course in the still prevailing soviet WWII narrative EVERY burned house, every murdered peasant is the guilt of the german soldiers, isn't it...)

What a great opportunities to lay all blame even for your own murders on the feet of the enemy....remember Katyn? And you can I believe even today still find museums in Russia who show "human soap" and present it as truth...

The war propaganda never really ended!

infoukes.com/history/ww2/page-06.html

...As the Soviet authorities and army retreated from Ukraine in 1941, Stalin's scorched earth policy left a trail of destruction including the Dniprohes Dam on the Dnieper River, which was the largest hydro electric power dam in Europe, countless mines and major industrial factories, and Khreschchatik Street in the capital city of Kiev. On November 3, 1941 the famous architectural monument, the Dormition Cathedral in the Pecherska Lavra built 1073 in Kiev, was destroyed.
Moscow tried to blame the Germans for destroying this superb example of medieval Ukrainian architecture but it was proven to be the work of a Soviet bomb squad which had mined it before their retreat and later set it off killing Germans...

....many, many of such examples when you go searching!

news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/22/newsid_3526000/3526691.stm

...At the same time, the retreating Soviet troops destroyed crops and burnt entire villages under Stalin's "scorched earth" policy to prevent supplies falling into German hands.

Bratwurst Boy

13 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

Is there any comparison between Haditha and WW2?

Of course...as you yourself throw the "collective guilt" around that freely every lone polish soldier is also responsible for the massacre in Haditha just because of being a member of the same coalition!

What's good for the goose...

If your noble troopers would win i wouldnt even be here because most Poles would be dead/germanized/on Syberia in work

I don't think so.....some things just don't fit, you know?
But this was an unwinnable war anyhow...the third Reich used war not for
a means to an end but as a reason for it's existence...

Did he ask for medical help for the victims of Treblinka? Belżec?

You still don't get it...

you want to respect him fine, everyone's entitled to an opinion but i sure as hell am not going to respect any Nazi trooper from WW2.

I think we can compromise on that! :)

Bratwurst Boy

13 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

Poles fight together and for a gov which made the rapes and the massacre of Haditha and Abu Ghraib possible...do all polish soldier suck now?

Once, after an especially successful fight against russian tanks, what saved the day for his unit (again), his superior asked Wittmann if he had a wish, it would be granted...Wittmann only said that there are still wounded russians on the field and asked for medical help for them...

What a bastard!

Bratwurst Boy

13 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

B.B. Do you mind looking up some Russian officer quotes, with similar things to say about the German army? Any quotes by a Slav would do, actually.

When they write in english why not? :)
But the problem with the Russians (and most Slavs come to think of) is that for decades they never could truly tell what really happened...the communist regime and their story line about the "Great Patriotic War" smothered everything...

And now most are dead!

I mean..there are the "saintly" heroic partisans...which were neither saintly nor heroic but often enough brutally killed their own peasants or let them starve to death.

And doesn't do the pics I posted make you think if all that stuff you got fed about the beastly Wehrmacht and the evil SS were not the only truth?

An SS soldier helping a wounded russian tanker? German soldiers paying respects to their fallen polish adversaries?
Don't fit the picture you have so cleanly, don't they....

forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=38374

The representations disseminated by Soviet propaganda of the occupation regime of the German Wehrmacht, which in its true character had nothing to do with atrocities and crimes, were one of the most mendacious themes of the traditional Soviet historiography of the Second World War. [........] Re-education has to serve not only the ends of historical truth and objectivity, but also that of moral liberation from the negative phenomena that appeared under the conditions of Stalinist totalitarianism.

Bratwurst Boy

13 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

You just don't get it.....

Bratwurst Boy

13 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

Nope, I still think it's a polish thing...somehow correlates with the polish urge always to demand only the most and greatest respect for yourself (and pouting if you think you don't get enough of it)...always crying loudly and throwing tantrums about every true or percieved slight...gloating about the tiniest sporty success as if you won a world championship and trying to talk down your adversary...

Not a pretty picture Sokrates! But that is your problem, not the Germans nor anybody else's!

Courage & honor know no particular flag.
As tanks are the spiritual descendents of horse cavalry, I honor you with one of our 2 greatest cavalry officers.
Rest Well, Sir.

- Bob Hufford

Bratwurst Boy

13 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

Maybe it's really a polish thing...being unable to pay respect to a worthy adversary...

The Brits can do it, the Americans do it, hell even the French can do it, not at least the Germans (even to the so called "Untermenschen")...only the Poles are unable to be that civilized.

Interesting insight..but not really important!

*shrug*

"Forces of Valor"

Bratwurst Boy

12 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

these people deserve no respect, ever.

Well....regardless what you think about it and wish it weren't so they still get it!

And now let's stop this useless discussion...

Bratwurst Boy

12 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

Most others who? Erica Steinbach or other expelees trying to rewrite history.

...have a nice day!

findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?GRid=11947&page=gr

One of the NON-GERMAN comments:

You were the greatest of all German WWII Panzer commanders. You died fighting bravely for your country, Deutschland, with your four comrades.
The 4th County of London Yeomanry will never forget you.
I remember hearing on the news when they found your battlefield gravesite near Gausemil and moved you to the Soldatenfriedhof at La Cambe. Rest in peace.

THAT is respect for an enemy!

Bratwurst Boy

12 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

Yes they were heroes,

Sure, as long as it's a Pole doing the crime he is still a hero....do you see now how useless
any discussion about this is?
And how worthless your judgement about german soldiers is for me and most others?

A war crime is a war crime, regardless which sides does it!
Some Poles have a long way to go still...

dont focus on nationality it has nothing to do with the matter.

YOUR focus on nationality has EVERYTHING to do about it!

Ask the Brits about Rommel, their enemy, but oh how they respect and even admire him.
And also Wittmann and many others.....think about that!

Bratwurst Boy

12 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

They are all criminals in my mind, and don't deserve any respect.

Well...that's the core of it..."in your mind".
That's why there can't be any discussion about it, a matter of view more.

I just find it interesting that the most objective and acknowledging books and documentations come from the anglo-saxon room, the ex-enemy.
google.com/search?hl=en&q=Michael+Wittmann&btnG=Google +Search&aq=f&oq=

They pay those soldiers their respect as they deserve it...what some Fili or some Sokrates thinks about them doesn't really matter. :)

SS was evil, very.

Yes, Klingenberg who saved Belgrade from destruction was surely enormously "evil".
A soldier who never broke any law of war like Wittmann is incredibly "evil"!

Manno...you are so brainwashed!
Or you just don't know the meaning of "respect"? (It doesn't mean "liking", ya know)
:)

PS: Sokrates, I doubt you read lot's of books about the SS or the german soldiers or you wouldn't spout such idiocy!
Millions of Germans fighted in the Wehrmacht and the SS and most of them (Wiesenthal center said more then 98 % never took part in any crimes or atrocities) were just damn fine soldiers!

But k98 is right, it's without any use to try to talk about that with people who don't even know the meaning of respect for an enemy!

Germans do:
(A small german cemetary for polish soldiers 1939)

"Here rest 5 valiant polish soldiers"

PS: But I recognize this behavior from your sports...whenever you win you can only gloat, never congratulate your adversary or respect them for a good fight...no...only gloating and trying to humiliate him...

What is it with you folks?

it does not matter if the guy did not kill anyone what does matter is that he was a member.

Yes, he was a German...not a Pole...how mean of him!

:)

But don't tell me...the polish flyers who shot down bailed out german flyers helpless hanging in their ropes are for sure great heroes...as a Pole it comes as a birthright, right?

Right!
And of course ALL polish flyers are criminal bastards because of those fews, aren't they?
They were after all all members...

Boah ey

last word for Bismarck, on his deathbed, was-'Serbia!

What? Should we send another one or two soldiers to take your capital???
Did he laugh himself to death? :):):)

Bratwurst Boy

12 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

Should I laugh when I read that statement?
I think I need an explanation here. Fast ;-]

That's an order, man!

It's an universal statement.

Well....

Night *waves*

Bratwurst Boy

12 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

ooopsie....

BB I didint know you listened to Bound for Glory. What other White Nationalist bands do you listen too? BFG is popular here...

I'm interested in the lyrics...they sing about Wittmann, that's why I liked it (even as a non-english native it's hard to decipher WHAT he actually sings)

Bratwurst Boy

12 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

you don't get the point here. I'll try to explain you.

And you have absolutely no sense of humour!
(Some german blood in you???)

But...don't tell me...the maker of "300" had actually the Poles in mind as he made the movie, didn't he?

Wittmann got what he deserved in the end... too bad he didn't get it sooner.

Yes, he was a pain in the ass for the allies...for sure they wished him dead! :)

Bratwurst Boy

12 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

Okay...I'm trying...

youtube.com/watch?v=ms2YxIY-FJ4

Bratwurst Boy

12 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

Yes, but you are a perv! :)

Hey, Warsaw...do you know the tribute to Wittmann "Bound for Glory"?
youtube.com/watch?v=ms2YxIY-FJ4

Bratwurst Boy

12 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

My great uncle had a nice picture of him and his buddies in Berlin, 1945 : )

I don't think so...:(
POW camp time for them all...

Battle of Wizna is the theme of one of the Sabaton songs on "The Art of War" album, entitled "40:1", for an estimated ratio of forces on both sides of battle (in fact, with 42200 Germans and 720 Poles, it is 59:1).

CONGRATULATIONS!!! You lost a battle!!!

But you've got nothing on us Germans...we lost the whole damn war!

Bratwurst Boy

12 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

Oh I dunno... but my grandpa for one...:)

PS: Thanks admin for making the pic smaller...I forgot...:(

Bratwurst Boy

12 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

Sabaton: "40-1

Soldiers of Poland second to none
Wrath of the Wehrmacht brought to a halt....

Warschau '39:

No army may enter that land
That is protected by Polish hand!

Manno...this country even vanished from Europe for centuries...not much "protecting by polish hand" me thinks!
What history do they sing about?

More great polish-german cooperation:

Bratwurst Boy

11 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

You are so right!
A Pole nets for Germany...

Polish-German alliance at it's best!

Bratwurst Boy

10 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

-do you know Britons or any other nation (not only Polish) true opinions about Germans?

German men are the sexiest
on earth, say British women

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1079336/German-men-sexiest-earth-say-British-women.html

Sexy Germans make for good relations

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/alex_starritt/blog/2008/10/22/sexy_germans_make_for_good_relations

So i should rephrase, imminent VISIBLE decline because for now its still relatively low key.

So there is time for another beer till I decline? Prost... :)

Bratwurst Boy

10 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

You can have Siberia

YEAH!

Bratwurst Boy

10 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

Do you need a horse?

...would be nice, thank you!
(or it would take forever walking with all my metal...)

Doesn't Rafal remind you of Lukasz a bit, BB?

Not really...Lukasz never even tried to hide his bitterness behind some bad jokes...

Incidentally thats another symptom of German imminent decline and fall but thats a subject for a whole thread:)

Imminent decline???

:)

Berlin and Warsaw are locked in a political row over plans to appoint a German conservative MP accused of playing down Nazi war crimes to run a new museum dedicated to the plight of Germans forced out of eastern Europe after the Second World War.

engforum.pravda.ru/showthread.php?t=242183

No row anymore...Mrs. Steinbach, Mrs. Merkel and Mr. Tusk agreed to keep the seat open for the time being.
This way no sides loses face..

Bratwurst Boy

10 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

Siberia rocks!

Barely any people...but lotsa resources...PERFECT!!!

Siberia it is..you coming?

Bratwurst Boy

10 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

Africa??? Bah... to hot!
I would just sweat under my helmet...

Bratwurst Boy

10 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

I took it, as a trophy ;)

You are sooooo mean! I'm calling the Russians...

(Erm...are we at war with them currently or not?)

It is time for war, and to cut down the world's population!

Yeah okay...but not native European populations please...we had our cutting down already...

Bratwurst Boy

10 Mar 2009

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

You've been getting your asses kicked

True!

But then our Bundeswehr isn't for fighting...not really...
I think with a policy change and a gov change and a mood change that could change very quickly.

(No that I see that coming...war is so out of fashion!)

PS: Not the war tech of course. There we still produce some of the world finest and earn
quite a buck but getting involved ourselves? Naaaah....