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Posts by Bratwurst Boy  

Joined: 2 Apr 2007 / Male ♂ 		Last Post: 7 hrs ago
Threads: Total: 9 / Live: 5 / Archived: 4
Posts: Total: 12605 / Live: 4860 / Archived: 7745 		From: Berlin, Germany
Speaks Polish?: No
Interests: his helmet

Displayed posts: 4865 / page 147 of 163
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Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Ooops...some more of those heroic polish masses:

abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=7643897&page=3

....
Denunciation was so common in Poland that there was a special term for paid informants "Szmalcowniki" (previously a term for a fence). In many cases, the denouncers knew their victims.

From the same issue of "Tygodnik Powszechny" - the drawings of an unknown author

Maybe we are not on the same page here...all you bring about the German crimes are open "secrets", EVERYBODY and their grandmom knows about, no sane German will deny them...but compared to you we had the guts to face up to them. There are memorials, documentations abundance about it.

It's YOU who need to put away your blinders.
The holocaust could never had happened without the often enthusiastic help of those who were the neighbours of the about to be murdered Jews in Eastern Europe.
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland#The_Holocaust:_German-occupied_Poland

"Was it inevitable that the Jews, looking their last on this world as they rode in the death trains speeding from different parts of the country to Treblinka or other places of slaughter, should have had to witness indifference or even joy on the faces of their neighbors?

In the summer of 1942, when carts packed with captive Jewish men, women and children moved through the streets of the capital, did there really need to be laughter from the wild mobs resounding from the other side of the ghetto walls, did there really have to prevail such blank indifference in the face of the greatest tragedy of all time?"

Quoted in Antony Polonsky & Joanna B. Michlic
Yeah...those heroic masses...

holocaustsurvivors.org/data.show.php?di=record&da=encyclopedia&ke=107

...Jewish Holocaust survivors grew up in Poland in the 1920's and 1930's and survived in Poland of the 1940's. Their memories in the present are based on what were current events back then. Their experience of Poland ended when they left the country; and most either never returned after WWII or left after the massacre of 42 Jews in Kielce by a Polish mob in 1946.Poland was a very anti-Semitic society in the years just before and after WWII.

It is hard to know how many Poles had sympathy for their Jewish neighbors but were paralyzed into inaction by fear.Yet incidents described above were frequent enough that it was a common Jewish perception of Polish attitudes that they were either indifferent to Jewish suffering or positively glad that the Jews were being removed.

Oh those heroic polish masses!
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

That too...

But on the other side trying to make amends with the real victims and somewhat repay them (even if that can never be enough) it's okay with me...it's all these hangers-on and freeloader who grate on my nerves, third generation-to late, who never experienced anything, but feel obliged to wiggle their fat fingers into a Germans face whenever they feel so, probably because once in a year they discover their love for Jews and think they have now some leverage against Germany.

Get lost all!
Bratwurst Boy   
27 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Axishistory forum? Is it something like an Adolf/Benito/All-the-Lesser-Axis-Twats Fanclub?

Well....if Axishistory isn't good enough for you, here a jewish news site:

ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3774804,00.html

Oh and Nika...another Poll just for you: encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-20748312.html

Most Israeli Jews satisfied with Germany's attitude towards Holocaust

It's people like you they can't stand....wonder why!
Bratwurst Boy   
27 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

oh, so it's Versaille that's responsible for Holocaust? That's something new.....

Well...it left an otherwise unimportant painter in Vienna itching for revenge.
And many Germans now being made homeless by new borders just waiting for someone like him.

What was your grade in history Nika?

yeah. let's go back to the dinosaurs era.
if they didn't die out there would be no people now..no people= no wars

Well...you started this game!

Well, we have a couple of Jews on this board - let's ask them who do they blame
for the Holocaust and who do they think were worse - Germans or Poles. They might
be able to provide accurate information about the attitudes of people in Israel (their
parents and grandparents as well).

forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=159764

....
He believes that one factor in this recent shift has been a growing trend of Israelis visiting death camps in Poland. As a result, he said, Israelis place a large part of the blame for the Holocaust on Poles instead of Germans.

In a poll he ran last year, a quarter of Israelis said they thought that Poles were as responsible as Germans for the Holocaust.

*shrug*

radziejow.blogspot.com/2009/09/post-world-war-ii-poland-and.html

...
Nazi policies toward the Jews, the legendary underground Polish diplomat Jan Karski reported to his government-in-exile in London in 1940, formed "a sort of narrow bridge where the Germans and a large part of Polish society meet in harmony."

It wasn't only Karski saying so. Eyewitnesses in the Warsaw ghetto saw Poles watching approvingly or even helping out, acting as spotters as German soldiers shot Jews. Polish girls were overheard joking, "Come, look, how cutlets from Jews are frying," as the ghetto burned.

Nazi accounts of Judenjagd, or "Jew hunts," detailed how Poles pitched in to find any stray Jews the Germans somehow managed to miss. As the deportations proceeded, and practically before the trains had left for Chelmno or Belzec or Treblinka, Poles gathered on the outskirts of towns, waiting to plunder Jewish property or move into Jewish homes.

Karski a liar too...in some twilight zone???
Bratwurst Boy   
27 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Whereas you repeat the mantra of the heroic mass of Poles with only a few bad apples?
Why is it that the Jews have it mostly the other way around???

There are much more stories like these around....if you don't like them, don't accept them it isn't my problem.

The Participation of Poles in Crimes Against Jews
in the Świętokrzyskie Region

....
Although more than sixty years have passed since the events under discussion,
one would be hard pressed to discover deeper reflection on the story
either by the main characters, or even those who were just spectators.

An overwhelming picture of almost complete indifference to the
fate of the murdered Jews emerges from the interviews. If some emo-
tion surfaces in them, it is rather a dislike of the murdered victims and
only rarely of the murderers.

More often than not, the antipathy to the murderers stems from animosity between neighbors, or suspicion of getting rich "from Jewish gold," rather than because of the crimes committed against the Jew.

Bratwurst Boy   
27 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

There was no enthusiastic help of Polish population in general as you are trying
to suggest.

I try nothing to suggest!

I bring links to witness reports....sorry they don't fit your rosy view either...
And yes...the Einsatzgruppen were send for killing Jews, communist leaders and other hostile subjects. They got lists and set to work.

The mass killings in the camps didn't gear up really before 1943/44...stop mixing things up.

....
In most East European countries, where the bulk of the Jewry resided, the German received ample help from the local population. In Poland, the Jews were beaten, blackmailed, robbed, denounced. Peasants caught runaway Jews, bound them like pigs and delivered them to the Gestapo in exchange for a liter of vodka and a kilogram of sugar. Jews hiding in forests were outright killed.
The Polish underground Army, passed many death sentences on Polish collaborators, but denunciation of Jews was never punished. Poles rejoiced when the Warsaw Ghetto was burning. "The Jewish bedbugs are finally torched."

In Warsaw there was a saying: "The whole world will throw stones at Hitler's grave, we will send flowers, grateful for removing the Jews from Poland."

by Alexander Kimel - Holocaust Survivor

Bratwurst Boy   
27 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Whatever you say BB, it won't change

Yeah...Nika...why does that not surprise me coming from you!
Your current version of the Holocaust is so much nicer for you, isn't it? So much easier to point a righteous finger to the Germans...thinking yourself all squeaky clean.

But don't be surprised if in books, newspapers or TV you see another "anti-polish propaganda" mentioning your own historical faults.

Most of the historians don't have your blinders...(probably because they aren't polish in the first place).

Whatever you say BB, it won't change the fact that if it wasn't for the Germans, all these millions of people would be alive.

Yeah...like in Kielce, right?

The only pogrom where Jews were murdered after the liberation of Auschwitz and the end of the Holocaust!

You never needed Germans for killing Jews!
Bratwurst Boy   
27 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

"Nazis couldn't do it without your people's enthusiastic help"

Well no, they couldn't.

Do you know the number of Einsatzgruppen members? 3000 man!
Do you really believe those few men could have killed so many people on their own???
Wherever they went they found easily enthusiastic helpers who also spoke the language and could point out the Jews to the Germans, hunting them for their masters...

The Germans alone would had been lost with this task in eastern Europe all by themselves.

In western Europe it was not much different! In France the french militia rounded up their Jews for transport even WITHOUT having been asked too.

All such stuff what is of course hidden away and taboo with many...the bad Germans did it all of course...WE are innocent little angels! Ha!

..
It's difficult for me to write about Poles. What is happening today is the greatest disillusionment that I have endured in my life. I have lived for twenty-six years among the Poles, embraced Polish culture and literature, loved Poland, looked on her as another motherland, and only in the last year have I recognized the true faces of Poles.

I would gladly describe the facts of every noble behavior toward Jews, but I cannot be silent in the face of the vileness of those who, out of desire for profit or out of blind hatred, sacrificed the lives of hundreds of thousands of people.

Bratwurst Boy   
27 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

I really don't want to discuss this here with you...

There is enough material out there, for those who want to see that is...for those who don't no book or researched article will be enough.

You have along way to go still.

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/pole2jew.html

....Shortly before his death in 1944, he entrusted the diary to a Polish friend. The document was eventually given to the Yad Vashem Archives. It was published in Hebrew in 1993 and in English in 1996.

I would like to characterize the attitudes of Poles toward Jews and, in general, toward the acts of extermination of Jews.
The lower classes of the townspeople as well as the peasants oriented themselves to which-ever way the wind was blowing. They understood that they had an opportunity to enrich themselves, one that came only in a great while.
One could pillage without penalty, steal, kill people, so that many using the slogan "now or never" got to work. They raised their hands to heaven, thankful for the favor that they had lived to see such times...

They considered themselves innocent. After all, the Germans were responsible.

Not much changed till now, has it....

"The one and immortal favor by the Germans toward the Poles is the fact that they had cleansed her of Jews."

....
One has to look truth squarely in the eye.
Jews perished first of all because they didn't realize in time what level German cruelty and barbarism would reach.
They were well aware, however, of the vileness of some Poles. They knew what it was that closed before them the gates of the Polish neighborhood and forced them to wait in the ghetto for the near and inevitable sentence of death.

Bratwurst Boy   
27 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

"We will not allow Holocaust deniers and desecrators of grave stones to erase or distort the memory."

I think he meant you Nika!
You are in total denial about your own peoples part in it...compared to Germans!

Was it inevitable that the Jews, looking their last on this world as they rode in the death trains speeding from different parts of the country to Treblinka or other places of slaughter, should have had to witness indifference or even joy on the faces of their neighbors?

In the summer of 1942, when carts packed with captive Jewish men, women and children moved through the streets of the capital, did there really need to be laughter from the wild mobs resounding from the other side of the ghetto walls, did there really have to prevail such blank indifference in the face of the greatest tragedy of all time?"

/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland#cite_note-110
Bratwurst Boy   
27 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

you are the only person who thinks so, BB.

You don't know much Nika....why do you think so many Jews hate Poles much more than Germans?
Why do you think so many witness stories end up "..the Poles/Ukrainians/Lithuanians/whatever were much worse than the Germans!" or "...even the Germans were appalled watching them"

Why don't you read and inform yourself some more?

It a shame you didn't watch TVP1 today - the ceremonies on the 65th anniversary of Auschwitz liberation would have made you feel very, very uncomfortable.

Well, it's not us who are in denial! Germans had the guts to face up, you are still a coward!

german cars made in Poland, Romania, Russia or whenever still remain german cars.

Yeah...that's your main alibi isn't it?

It's always either "The Germans made me do it" or the other favourite variant later "The Russians made me do it!", often exchanged with "The Commies made me do it!"

Man, who do you think believes your crap!
Bratwurst Boy   
27 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Without the first sentence in your post I would've said "thank you, it's important". Now I believe that you are just another bigot.

McCoy is a longtime arse....I wished someone else had made this thread as he only tries to score a point with the Germans as if during a soccer game.

The tragedy itself means nothing at all to him...what a cheap bastard!

A German newspaper trying to reduce the role of Germans in the biggest crime in the history of humanity. Somehow it doesn't surprise me....

If you would care you wouldn't need this article to know about it. Just some logic and common sense is needed!
Just google and read and inform yourself...witnesses and numbers abundance!
Bratwurst Boy   
27 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Germans did this to fellow Europeans:

Well....most of the jobs were actually done by either voluntarily or forced natives. Most Germans besides the Einsatzgruppen acted more as planners, organizers and overseers.

Without the more or less enthusiastic groundwork in those countries where most of the Jews lived it could never have been done so "successfully"...so clean your own backyard first!

spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,625824,00.html

Using such a day for his germanophobia is a "McCoy"-thing to do...no doubt! f*uck you!

Is "Holocaust" a Hebrew word? Where did it come from? What does it mean?
I've heard one translation but I'm not sure if it's correct, anyone here speak or know Hebrew?

The jewish word for this is "Shoah".
Bratwurst Boy   
21 Jan 2010
History / Polish historical myths - to break or not to break them? [257]

With being white and European there alone is bunches to be proud of...without resorting to myths, that's my point!

Especially if you not all the time has to go to war to defend some myths everybody else and their grandmom knows to be only myths...

And I as a German know alot of all the bad stuff my people has done, doesn't stop me from being proud of all the good stuff! It's all one package...no cherry picking allowed! :)
Bratwurst Boy   
21 Jan 2010
History / Polish historical myths - to break or not to break them? [257]

Plus, I can criticize my wife, but I will get very upset if you do.

But...but...but....you called me "Polak in denial"! Hence I can criticize too without you getting upset!!!

;)

...and I still don't know what "psubracie" means....
Bratwurst Boy   
21 Jan 2010
History / Polish historical myths - to break or not to break them? [257]

People are smart.

Do you want me to gather all the threads here on PF attacked as anti-polish propaganda because a German or a Brit or a Jew or whatever does not show Poland/Poles only as it's best???

That has nothing to do with smartness but everything with knowledge!
Bratwurst Boy   
21 Jan 2010
History / Polish historical myths - to break or not to break them? [257]

One myth at time though. Maybe how the Teutonic Knights were spreading Christianity in Poland?

Good example!

I don't know of any German painting the Teutonic Knights as benign civilization bringer holding the torch of freedom (anymore that is)!
Nor would we call it "anti-german propaganda" if you complain about them! ;)
I think we see them quite realistically...

What's a "psubracie"?
Bratwurst Boy   
21 Jan 2010
History / Yalta Conference and Poland [78]

Oh god...I once had it....lemme go looking..

Okay...I give up....I can't find the original.
But I believe the paper has an archive! I wished they would put it online like Times or Spiegel recently...

Nothing beats reading original articles from that time - history as it's best!
Bratwurst Boy   
21 Jan 2010
History / Yalta Conference and Poland [78]

Can you find full text not only single quote ?

Maybe the Daily Mail has an archive where we could find it...
But this special quote is from an article from 6th August 1939.
Bratwurst Boy   
21 Jan 2010
History / Polish historical myths - to break or not to break them? [257]

I would say leave the myths alone.

It makes talking about history and even current events quite a struggle sometimes.
Especially with people fed on those myths who start to accuse you of "fabricating anti-polish propaganda" the moment you mention otherwise (outside of Poland that is) well known facts...

Also upholding myths which paints one side only totally rosy is not helpful for any reconciliation at all!