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Posts by Bratwurst Boy  

Joined: 2 Apr 2007 / Male ♂
Last Post: 3 hrs ago
Threads: Total: 9 / Live: 5 / Archived: 4
Posts: Total: 12605 / Live: 4860 / Archived: 7745
From: Berlin, Germany
Speaks Polish?: No
Interests: his helmet

Displayed posts: 4865 / page 146 of 163
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Bratwurst Boy   
29 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

As for Mandel i can understand his point of view thought it would have been different if he was Polish,

Well...that is a universal statement, isn't it!
It's hard to exchange your own viewpoint stemming from your own heritage and past with another one...

Austro-Hungary is wholly different and more complex.

Why? Because Hungarians and Poles never shared disputed borders? Could hence uphold their "friendship"?

Real interest here...

And you have cheap-tasting white wine too!!!

Oh, now you are getting mean!
Bratwurst Boy   
29 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

This is important because there's a big difference between Poland being given its independence and taking it, Poles took their independence back by themselves with very limited foreign aid, otherwise no one would give it to them, Versailles only acknowledged the end result.

It wasn't through a war with Germany that Poland got their independence...quite to the contrary many Poles fighted WWI on the sides of the partitioners.

On the outbreak of war the Poles found themselves conscripted into the armies of Germany, Austria and Russia, and forced to fight each other in a war that was not theirs. Although many Poles sympathized with France and Britain, they found it hard to fight for their ally, Russia. They also had little sympathy for the Germans. Total deaths from 1914-18, military and civilian, within the 1919-1939 borders, were estimated at 1,128,000.[147]

Well, the new borders where drawn in Versailles, not in Warsaw.
The french send troops to support them...the german side was forced to subscribe to the treaty (or else the blockade would not had ended, killing even more than the already starved to death 600.000 people).

I think we can say that in the mainstream history it's this treaty which destroyed the german and the Austrian-Hungarian Empire and carved out of them new countries....

Ask the Hungarians, they feel the same!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Trianon

....
The territory of Hungary was reduced from 325,111 km2 to 93,073 km2 and its population from 20.9 million to 7.6 million.[9]
Hungary lost five of its ten most populous cities as well.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Poland#Formation_of_modern_Polish_society_under_foreign_rule

...
Polish independence was eventually proclaimed on November 3, 1918 and later confirmed by the Treaty of Versailles in 1919.
The same treaty also gave Poland some territories annexed by the Germans and Austrians during the partitions (see Polish Corridor). The post-war eastern borders of Poland were determined by Polish victory in the Polish-Soviet War.

And it wasn't only about purely polish territory, it was also about territory purely german in history and population.
After the fall of the empires it was a free for all and every nationality which could tried to grab as much land for itself as possible...

/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles#Territorial_changes

Wilson's friend Edward Mandell House, present at the negotiations, wrote in his diary on 29 June 1919:

"I am leaving Paris, after eight fateful months, with conflicting emotions. Looking at the conference in retrospect, there is much to approve and yet much to regret.
It is easy to say what should have been done, but more difficult to have found a way of doing it. To those who are saying that the treaty is bad and should never have been made and that it will involve Europe in infinite difficulties in its enforcement, I feel like admitting it.

Bratwurst Boy   
29 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

I was thinking about Poland. I know that the rest of Europe is another story.

Well, for Germans it's the whole "wild East"....how can we make differences! ;)

But I know Poland was always a special case, one of the few pinned for annihilation, never given even a choice.
Bratwurst Boy   
29 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Like which countries?

You never read my links, don't you!;)

Denmark being the most glaring example: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_the_Danish_Jews

...
As a result of the rescue and Danish intercession on behalf of the 5% of Danish Jews who were deported to Theresienstadt transit camp in Bohemia, over 99% of Denmark's Jewish population survived the Holocaust.

Bratwurst Boy   
29 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Again you fail to grasp the military vs civilians question, a single infantry batalion of 800 men is enough to pacify a city quarter of 40 thousand by sheer superiority of training and arms.

That is only possible if the 40.000 are already pacified....if they would fight those 800 men have no chance!

But if it would be required the regular army could easily wipe out all major population centers in all of occupied Europe within months.

Well....it's hard to discuss lofty assumptions....why not stay with the reality!

Countries who didn't "deliver" their Jews were left alone.
Most helpers of the Germans were volunteers.
No, the Germans had never the men available in the occupied countries to shoot everybody.
Bratwurst Boy   
29 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

The Germans had means to murder 80% of all Slavic people and more then 90% of Poles if Russia failed, German nazism was poised to extreminate any number of people who defied it and had the means to do it everywhere it did not have to oppose an equal enemy (ie Russian/Western militaries).

I didn't knew they had nukes???

And no, they didn't had the means....look at a map of Europe and then look a the numbers of Germans available!
There was a bloody war still going on, remember?

Tell me you are joking.

No, I'm not....

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_collaborators

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_for_the_Holocaust#Other_states

Although the Holocaust was planned and directed by Germans, the Nazi regime found willing collaborators in other countries, both those allied to Germany and those under German occupation.

The civil service and police of the Vichy regime in occupied France actively collaborated in persecuting French Jews. Germany's allies, Italy, Finland, Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria, were pressured to introduce anti-Jewish measures; with the exception of Romania, they did not comply until compelled to do so.
Bulgaria and Finland refused to co-operate, and all 50,000 Bulgarian Jews survived (though most lost their possessions and many were imprisoned), but thousands of Greek and Yugoslavian Jews were deported from the Bulgarian-occupied territories.

Yes, those Danish heroes who saved all their Jews. All 15 of them ...

Well, it had been some more and no Dane got killed because of it!
Bratwurst Boy   
29 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Nothing would change,

Unlikely....

Well one thing that would change would be a much higher casuality rate among non-Jewish populations since refusing to carry orders or giving a Jew a slice of bread typically earned a bullet for you and your family,

There were much more volunteers than the Germans needed, no need to force someone.

And countries where there was real unwill to deport their Jews were left alone mostly too...
The Germans knew very well that they had no means to force it if there was a wide spread "no"....they only had that many men available.
Bratwurst Boy   
29 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

So no it was not an "European project" it was an all the way German project.

Imagine there had been no help...no pointing out of the Jews to the Germans, no hunting them for the Germans, no beating them and delivering them to the shootings, not rounding them up on the trainstations at german orders...
Bratwurst Boy   
29 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

More than they actually did???
We are talking about 30.000 Jews here...

Also Ukrainians only herded people to the general location they didnt do the shooting, no one denies there was collaboration but it was not as you put it, an European project, it was planned extremination carried out by military elements of the German nation with loud or quiet approval of much of the nation itself.

Not only the german nation....that's the point here!
The Jews had not many friends as they needed them.
That's the main gripe I have with these McCoys of this world....
Bratwurst Boy   
29 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

I've thought about that...take this movie about Babi Jar...a handfull of german soldiers with MG's against hundreds of hundreds/thousands of Jews and Ukrainians Auxiliaries...how many could they had shot if they had decided to fight?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboration_with_the_Axis_Powers_during_World_War_II
Bratwurst Boy   
29 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

There was an auxillary unit of some sick Ukrainian f*cks, who took luggage from the Jews and some did kick those who walked slowly, but neither of them executed a single person.

Without them kicking and beating them, preventing them from fleeing, leading them straight to the Germans who shot them blah blah blah...

Again, I'm not the one denying our part!

but it doesn't mean that you have to carve out and twist facts to make your point.

No twisting necessary...

This is true to a certain extent, but it also has to be said that most of mainland Europe was occupied by Germany so in most if not all cases, the authorities didnt have much of a choice with regards to the deportation of Jews.

Look at a map of Europe Shelley,

The german army was busy fighting, the Germans had only so many people available for occupational duty...without willing helpers and collaborateurs everywhere they could have done not much!

The Germans were NOT the almighty "Übermenschen" ;)
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Not only are you funny but also sweet!

I am NOT funny and I am NOT sweet!!! *stomps foot*

ask Torq

Given that Wiesenthal has incomplete records and goes after killers of Jews only thats woefully incomplete.

Well, that's about the Germans...as you have seen the institute has it's eyes on non-Germans still too!
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Oh - don't make it too easy for me, please ;) I didn't mean the most prominent of them.

Yes, that's the numbers....200.000 german sick fucks.....and Wiesenthal had decades to get his numbers rights.
They wanted them all, not only the top dogs...till down to the little bureaucrates and Einsatzgruppen-alcoholic!

What's "polish idiocy"? Explain, please :-)

Nikaish idiocy...more precisely...

We should end up with a higher number of sickf**ks, right?

At least as much...but think about it.
I once watched a horrifying movie about the massacre in Babi Jar...around the poor sods on their way to the place where they would shot there was maybe a handful of german soldiers...but hundreds of brutal Ukrainians/whatever with clubs beating the Jews....many more than the Germans.
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

In 1939 there were about 70 million people in the III Reich, right?

The Wiesenthal center gives out a number of 200.000 german sick *****....not 70 Millions.

Now if we add every eastern peasant with a shovel we would get at least as many...

Just for example, on June 27, 1941, a colonel in the staff of the Germany's Northern Army Group in the Lithuanian city of Kaunas passed a petrol station surrounded by a crowd of people. There were shouts of bravo and clapping, mothers raised their children to give them a better view.
The officer stepped closer and later wrote down what he had seen.

*mods - sorry for that little Polish chat, it's nothing nasty*

Rofl
As if it isn't quite easy to translate your crap....polish idiocy showing again?

And yes, I actually like Poles and call Torqi my chum!
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

But if it makes you feel better - whatever.

I'm full in my "mud-slinging"-mood...yeah it makes me feel better.

The project was German and you found some sickf*cks throughout Europe to help
you execute it under your close supervision.

Agreed!
Man, that was a heavy fight to come to that...*rolls eyes*

10 to 1 sick fucks....makes 11 sick fucks with my math...
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Btw - I can understand (or at least I can try to understand) how uncomfortable
the knowledge of what your ancestors did must be to you.

Well, I'm a German - meaning I can face up to it.
You as a Pole prove to be to weak and to cowardly...

Torq, an interesting list about non-German holocaust helpers:
FACTBOX-Wiesenthal Center's top 10 WW2 war criminals

FACTBOX-Wiesenthal Center's top 10 WW2 war criminals

Nov 30 (Reuters) - Accused Nazi death camp guard John Demjanjuk goes on trial in Munich on Monday to face charges he participated in the killing of 27,900 Jews in 1943.

Demjanjuk is number one on a list of 10 most-wanted war criminals compiled by the Simon Wiesenthal Center, according to a statement issued in April 2

Start to accept the reality Torqi, it was a European project!
Without your peoples enthusiastic help it wouldn't had been possible!!!
Just take for example your beloved friends, the Hungarians:

....A few days later, Ruthenia, Upper Hungary, and Northern Transylvania were placed under military command; these territories contained an additional 320,000 Jews. On April 9, Prime Minister Döme Sztójay and the Germans obligated Hungary to place at the disposal of the Reich 300,000 Jewish laborers. Five days later, on April 14, Endre, Baky, and Eichmann decided to deport all the Jews of Hungary.

The devotion to the cause of the "final solution" of the Hungarian gendarmes surprised even Eichmann himself, who supervised the operation with only twenty officers and a staff of 100, which included drivers, cooks, etc.[13]

/wiki/Hungarian_Jews#Toward_the_Holocaust

That was the reality...Germans ordering, supervising but the dirty ground work done by the Eastern Europeans themselves, no force needed whatsoever.
Germany could never had achieved much without your help!

However, you should find some different way of dealing with
the almost unbearable load of the sins of your fathers than by looking for other
nations to blame and point fingers at. ROFL
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

BB is a perfect example of what a German really thinks, but doesn't say out loud,

Well...more precise would be: MOST GERMANS GIVE A SH'IT!

How many Germans do you know here on PF to discuss things with you???

Oh and lady...just in case the reality flew you by....we are living now in the European Union, no borders anymore....we HAVE our Lebensraum already, more than ever before!

And not one shot fired....to the contrary people like Poles said THANK YOU for letting us in!

But I hate cowardice, that much is true..

As for throwing the word "cowards" at us so easily, I wouldn't do it if I were a descendant
of murderers of women and little babies on an industrial scale.

What, if the shoe fits...

You spend way too much time on that dodgy Iloveadolfandotheraxistwatsforum.com site.

Don't tell me it isn't true that mean, bad Germany always was the preferred country to run to for Poles through the centuries!

(Lot's of 'skis doing the murdering of women and little babies too btw.)
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

This gets confusing.

It's easy:

Poles/Sokrates = lying loud mouth

Bratwurst boy = honest and serious, keeping to facts

;)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_of_Expellees#The_federation_today
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_of_Expellees#Presidents
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Like how the cities you stole from us for 100 years have always been German?

Without german build towns, german industrializtion of Silesia and everything you would still be just some dumb peasant. Probably bullying an Ukrainian for some breadcrumb.

Not to mention that Germany granted your folks for centuries a place to find work and education. Hundred of thousands of Polacks couldn't wait to leave your sorry hole for Germany during the centuries. The biggest Polonia in the world is in mean, bad Germany!

Never the other way around...wonder why?

Killed an ukrainian recently?

Lying cowards!

Prussia was good for you - we should just annex you again and be done with it!
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Poles are so full of lies it's unbelievable: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_of_Expellees

In February 2009, the Polish paper Polska wrote that over one third of the Federation top officials were former Nazi activists, and based this on an article published by the German magazine Der Spiegel in 2006.[1]
The German paper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung wrote that Der Spiegel said this not in respect to the Federation of Expellees, but in respect to a predecessor organization that was dissolved in 1957.

Liars and cowards!
And in the case of Sokrates also big mouths with nothing else....
(But then, Poles probably need their big mouths to hide their emptiness behind it)
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Yes, Torq WE know about it....why don't you read some of the links I posted to get YOUR own history straight and cut the crap about the "heroic polish masses"?

Holocaust denial is not MY problem!

10 to 1, Torq!

10 enthusiastic helpers for every German...of course now loudly screaming "we are innocent - it was all the germans"

There is only one thing worse than a criminal, lying, denying and not facing up...a coward!

The coming years will bring out much more of these dreary facts and uncomfortable history...the research has just started...if you sputted at "Neighbours" or "Fear" already there is much more to come.

Fear-Anti-Semitism-Poland-After-Auschwitz

Gross notes that when the Germans were trying to put down the Warsaw ghetto uprising, Poles-including children-not only cheered as Jewish snipers were spotted and killed but gleefully showed the Germans where Jews were hiding.

Will be interesting to watch you throwing tantrums and spouting about "anti-polish propaganda" or "anti-polish jewish conspiracy"...;)

As the slaughter of Jews began, police and military officials either joined in the outrages or refused to intervene. In succeeding years, with the complicity of Communist authorities, the position of the remaining Polish Jews continued to deteriorate.

By 1949, the goal of the Nazis had been achieved: Poland was essentially free of Jews.

See the date???

End
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

in the world, we have never stained ourselves with the kind of thing you did not because we're inefficient but because we're human beings.

Yeah...you and your kind are repeating that over and over....only to protest soon against another kind of percieved "anti-polish propaganda" just because the Jews themselves and the rest of the world laughs about your presumption!

i'm glad your nation is in such decline, maybe at one point history will return the favor you once delivered.

Rofl, we are ruling Europe with you Poles living on handouts....not much changed, and not much will change ever!
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Great grandson of murderers pointing fingers?:)

Not shifting the blame..you Poles are not able to do something so sophisticated on your own.
Building a modern factory to kill people is a german thing to do, smart engineers that we are...you Poles and other eastern Europeans preferred shovels and batons!

Even after the mass killing was already over..

No shifting needed, all facts:

In the killing fields of Eastern Europe, there were up to 10 local helpers for every German policeman. The ratio is similar in the extermination camps.

Oh, and thanks for your help btw.

And isn't it interesting that after the war the few surving Jews fled the "heroic polish masses" westwards? TO GERMANY???

...
The pogrom in Kielce was one of the factors that led to a mass westward migration of hundreds of thousands of Jews who had survived the Holocaust.
Known as the Brihah, this movement brought Jews from Poland and other countries of eastern Europe to displaced persons camps located...

!