News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


Well... in Dune - you have the House Harkonnen - led by a Baron Vladimir Harkonnen.

In Star Trek you had Chekhov - Kirk's trusty navigator.

Obviously - these authors were projecting their then present day reality of the Cold War into the distant future. But still, even those authors thought that even ten thousand years from now - there would still be traces of who was Russian, who was English, and so on. This... due to the extraordinary impact of our specific age across the past 200,000 years.

It gives me a little comfort, that when we may be colonizing Alpha Centauri's satellites, there will still be Grzegorzes and Borises.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


The only reliable way to have a revival - in the current dismal demographic context - is a terrible war where we lose large portions of our population.

These wars that shake everything to the foundation, paradoxically, make people reproduce more.

If everyone continues to grow fat, lazy, and selfish through life in a capitalist aquarium - you won't get a sudden and unexpected boost in birth rates.

You need a nuclear holocaust, or a plague - then whatever Poles and Russians remain will reproduce enthusiastically.

There's many reasons why this is so - housing, land, public health, etc.

So unless you are willing to send 50% of Poland to their death - you won't save Poland. No one has managed it. Not the French. Not the Koreans. Not the Russians. There is no amount of money or incentives that will make people produce families again, unless we throw them back to an earlier state of existence.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]

In the same way demographics is destiny - manpower is determinant.

Even in the age of drones, robots, and ai - you need boots on the ground to occupy territory. No drone will perform the job of occupation for you.

Infantry - salt of the Earth - has always won wars, and will continue in this role. Nothing can defeat infantry - not air, not sea, and not even nukes.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


I don't associate myself with the people, in the same way you do - perhaps.

For me - it is more important that Russia remains an independent pole within the world.

If we restrict immigration, and die out like the Spartans - some Roman will one day come and bulldoze us.

Sparta and Athens lost to Rome, because they restricted military service and public service to Athenian and Spartan citizens.

Even Pyrrhus, God of War that he was, eventually ran out of manpower - and today we have the term "Pyrrhic Victory". As he said - "One more victory like this - and I'm done for."

For every army that Pyrrhus destroyed, Rome raised two more. When it started running out of men to throw into the meat grinder, Rome simply expanded citizenship - and gained access to hundreds of thousands of more recruits.

In whose world do we live today - Rome's or Athens'?

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


Unless people suddenly start making more children - and I mean RIGHT NOW - this end result is sort of baked in. We only have to sit and wait for it to come to be.

People don't say that "demographics is fate" for no reason. Present day patterns, are a 100% accurate indicator of where you will be in 10-20-30 years. So if you don't fix things or discover that you are unable - all you can do it sit and wait, and hope the browns will be nice to you and your kids.

As for the elites - they don't care.

Russians will always control Russia. Poles will always control Poland. WASPs and Ashkenazim will always run America.

All the brown people will be below the white Russian and Polish elites.

It's the Polish and Russian lumpenproletariat that will have street fights with immigrants, stage marches for racial purity, etc.

Elites are global - and have long since stopped caring about their home populations.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


I wish we got immigrants from China and Korea in the same proportion as America. Even better Europeans - but they don't even emigrate to America anymore in the same numbers.

Russia is Russia - and we get the type of people that are ready to live here, and for whom it still represents an upgrade.

Future Russia will be brown, half Muslim, and bi-trilingual.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


We will lose Cubans, and you would lose Englishmen and Spaniards.


Well - the reason we need 11 million worth of fresh blood is not because of Ukraine. It's because 8 million Russians will retire by 2030. But we also want to grow, and create new jobs. 11 million is the number the Ministry of Labor came up with - all things considered.

As you know - our demographics are ****.

Under this kind of trajectory, by 2050 or so, Russians will be a minority in their own country.

Is this price worth it - in exchange for continued relevance on the global stage? For Russian elites certainly. For the average Russian worker, who will one day wake up and say "where is my country?" - maybe not.

Thankfully - one never has to consult the average Russian worker about anything. That is, until he puts on his little Budenov cap and sticks a pitchfork in your bourgeois guts.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


Poland may be an exception, but Germany is empty. The UK is empty. Italy had nothing but its good navy to begin with. Spain cannot fight - in principle.

Only France has some good stuff left - because they were greedy in sharing with the Ukrainians.

When I say there are no shells and no tanks - you only have to read what Rhinemetall, BAE, and others write in their own press reports.

There WILL be a mountain of shells, and hordes of tanks, but later - not now.

Poland - like France - stopped helping Ukraine as soon as it started eating into core stocks. Also, Poland decided not to wait on German and British production - and instead to go with some exotic purchases. That may help it too

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]

... and if the war ends soon, but Europe is only ready to fight in 4-5 years: can you imagine where Russia would be by that point in time?

If we start reconstituting the army in 2026, by 2030 it will be in a much scarier shape than it was in 2022.

If Trump removes sanctions on us, as a reward for ending the war, then China will no longer be limited in assisting Russia's military industrial complex in retooling and expanding.

The way our economy is structured now, Putin will not be able to rapidly decrease military spending without causing a nasty recession - so the factories will continue to receive hundreds of billions of dollars.

We are currently investing billions into expanding North Korea's industrial capabilities. Their war machine works almost exclusively to our benefit.

We will be able to recruit hundreds of thousands of Cubans, Angolans, Nepalis, Ethiopians, Nicaraguans, etc.

Already today, I read a report where our Minister of Labor was telling Putin we will need 11 million additional citizens by 2030 if we are to deliver on various promises. This can only mean that Putin will have to open the immigration gates even wider. It means almost a tripling in the level of immigration, from 700K or so, to 2 million a year.

I expect many of these people will earn their citizenship through service.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


Europe has emptied itself of weapons. That's already a defeat - without even putting a single soldier in the field.

America's Pentagon planners are stopping weapons shipments without consulting with Trump and Rubio, because they are worried that "stocks are running dangerously low".

Russia has successfully absorbed a sizable portion of the collective West's weapon stocks. If in the beginning it was legacy systems like artillery guns and tanks, then over the past two years it has been state of the art equipment - that in many cases even America's allies don't possess.

When the West arrives, what will it fight with, if we rule out nuclear weapons?

Where are the tanks? Where are the shells? Where are the men (Starmer and Macron could not put together a force of 12,000)?

You gonna fight with a naked ass? No. You need at least 4-5 years to get into fighting shape. That's why I say "impotence".

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


This is tactical/operational - while the strategic goal is to demonstrate Western impotence.

Killing the maximum possible number of AFU servicemen is unfortunately the only logical way of waging the war at this point. This is because Ukraine has catastrophic issues with mobilizing new forces - so every brigade removed from the map represents a permanent reduction in their combat potential.

Holes are opening in the front. Some Ukrainian officers complain they are asked to maintain 5 km stretches of the "zero line" with 10-12 men.

Still, Ukraine has new and deep lines of fortifications it has erected 40-50 kilometers behind the current lines. Those lines are much straighter, and thus easier to defend. They are finally building them properly, in the way the Russians built theirs to stop the 2023 Summer Offensive.

That is, I'm not sure you can simply kill your way through this war. "Kill Counts" didn't win America Vietnam, and it didn't stop the Taliban. Granted - Vietnam and Afghanistan had infinitely healthier demographics.

What needs to happen is either:

1) Electronic warfare systems make a further leap in efficiency, and once again clear the skies of drones. Current systems are unable to disrupt fiber optic drones, or drones that rapidly hop frequencies, or drones employing neural networks to autonomously acquire targets.

2) We figure out some way to reliably find and kill drone operators. There's much progress in this direction. Over the past 6 months, hundreds of Ukrainian drone operator crews have been destroyed. But it's hard work, and requires creative thinking and constant innovation.

If you can't clear the skies of drones, strategic offensives are extremely difficult to pull off. Maybe inpossible. Only slow, incremental gains are possible.

Americans are currently experimenting with microwave weapons, which can down hundreds of drones simultaneously by frying their internal components. Maybe this will be the key.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


I think the goal is to fix in place a Western defeat.

Not demilitarization. Not denazification. But just the fact of a Western defeat.

If Ukraine is left without 20% of its initial territory, following a negotiated ceasefire - that would amount to a Western defeat - no matter what anybody else says to the contrary.

Biden's moving of goalposts to "Well, we had prevented a full takeover of Ukraine, and that's a great victory indeed" - is total bullsh*t.

He promised that Putin would be in a cage. He said the "Rouble is Rubble". He said Russia would be more isolated than the worst pariah regimes.

That doesn't sound like Russia getting to keep a territory the size of Greece, or three Switzerlands.

--//--

Why is it important to "fix" a Western defeat in fact? Because everyone is tired of it, but still somewhat afraid that it has some single flex left - which could set us up for a further 50 years of Western domination.

If the West is seen to have lost, after it threw everything including the kitchen sink at Russia - then that is a powerful signal to everyone else. To China. To India. To Brazil - that it is possible to ignore the West and overcome it.

This will accrue to us in myriad ways, from prospective alliances, to arms sales, to increased trade - as people learn not to fear Western sanctions and Western militaries.

If we lose - then it's a chilling message to everyone else. If Russia could not resist - how can we hope to resist?

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


...


Everybody loves each other on PF - in the end. What a strange place!

I would never think Jon357 and Amiga500 would want to hang out with each other, but here we are...

A model for the rest of the world - tearing itself apart by left/right axis, or through whatever other bent.

--///--

Seeing Richard's post on Adrian, I decided to go back to Polanda and read some of his old posts. He wrote a lot - and on a lot of different topics. Then I decided to go back to the very first "Polish Aid to Ukraine if Russia Invades" thread, and see who was writing what in March and April of 2022.

It was actually not as bad as I thought. Of course, there were posts like this one from Maf (made on April 15th, 2022)

"Time is on Ukraine's side... The Russian army is facing collapse and won't really be able to fight by June or so at the latest..."

To be honest, though, I wrote some pretty stupid posts as well back then.

It's glorious of course to see PAK still in his full "HAPPY GULAG *******" mode. Kania is actually staunchly pro-Ukrainian at the start of the conflict as well, but you can see his views drifting closer to May-June.

Jon is obsessed with Kadyrov, and wants to hang every Chechen from a lamppost or strangulate them with piano wire.

Velund is consistent - in that he neither hates Ukrainians nor wanted this war to begin with. He seems actually a bit less of a war hawk than me, in those first months.

Atch wrote from a surprisingly sober perspective, given the excitement at the time (24th February, 2022):

"Would everybody please stop sounding so delighted at the prospect of going to war with Russia. World War Three may be unavoidable but it's not a cause for celebration."

AntV wins the award for the most clear-eyed post (from a person that was always neutral):

"I'm not so sure, fellas.

Emotions are running high right now, so all this talk of independence from Russia energy and significant increases in military spending, etc still have yet to meet the realities of time. Let's not get ahead of ourselves."

Novichok is of course the champion. He never wavered - not one single day. From 24 February, 2024 - he was solid in insisting that Ukraine will never return Crimea, and would never reoccupy the Donbass.

Off-Topic / Remembering Adrian [24]

RIP Dirk Diggler

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]

@Mr Grunwald

We need your help in Russia.

If we live together - we don't need anyone else.

Feel bad you have never experienced the nature and climate of San Francisco? Go to Vladivostok on the other end of the Pacific.

Can't travel to Egypt and Turkey for the palm trees and beaches? Go to Sochi and Gelendzhik.

Can't ski in Chamonix? Come ski the Caucasus - the tallest mountains in Europe.

You want deserts? We got em. Tundra? Yes. Endless forest yes? Volcanoes and geysers - more than Yellowstone - yes. Ice sheets and glaciers - more than Canada.

In Russia we have everything. More than everything. We are larger than a continent. 110 of the naturally occurring elements from the periodic table.

We have more energy than God himself. America will start tapping oil fields right underneath its cities, before we even open our fields in conservation.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


Three countries that are f*cked Grunnie.

Not sure you want to copy their example. They lack the weight for independence. None have even a fraction of the freedom of maneuver of Russia.

Germany and Turkey especially - they cannot take a step without a consultation with the boss.

Russia answers only to God Almighty.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


Google is your friend. R1A is the main genetic marker.

Russians are actually four different "Russians". The ones in the NorthWest have high Scandinavian and Finno-Ugric admixture. In the center - practically Stone Age Slavs.

In the Southwest - lots of Steppe and Caucasus admixture.

In the East - increasingly Asian as you move East - primarily through Tatar mixing.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]

In general - it always makes me laugh when Poles complain about repression.

A Pole invented the entire KGB. Within the Warsaw Pact - everyone quietly took notes from the UB on how to smash even the smallest grass shoots of dissent.

For a very "freedom loving" people, Poles sure know how to tighten the screws. Maybe they got that from the Germans...

--//--

Another interesting aspect, is the quality of Polish infantry. From what I have read - Soviet generals rated German infantry most highly. The GDR probably had the best infantry available - superior in every way to Soviet infantry. Discipline, physicality, ideological solidness, level of education and technical aptitude.

The Poles probably ranked second to the Germans. The problem of the Poles was they were largely a conscription reliant forces like ours - while the GDR had a professional army that emphasized long term service.

Still, Polish infantry was assigned hugely important tasks. If the Germans were to be the tip of the spear, Poles were supposed to protect the flanks and exploit breakthroughs.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]

In the times of the Warsaw Pact, Poland had several "specializations".

However, before any of their other contributions - you have to remember that the Ludowe Wojsko Polskie was the second-largest Warsaw Pact army after the Soviet Union. IT WAS BIGGER THAN THE ARMY OF THE GDR - which was the most militarized state on Earth for a short while.

But back to Polish "special competences":

1) Almost the entire Soviet fleet of amphibious landing ships was built in Poland - primarily in Gdansk. Russia still uses Polish ships to move troops across seas.

2) Poland produced a disproportionate number of mine warfare vessels and coastal defense ships. Basically - it was Poland's job to control the Baltic.

3) Logistical corps. Poland had a much higher density of pre-positioned depots and railheads. Soviet military planners trusted Polish logistics much more than Romanian or Bulgarian logistics. Poland provided the capacity to rapidly reinforce East Germany and Czechoslovakia - and to keep Swedish forces bottled up in their ports.

4) Alongside licensed production of T-55 and T-72 tanks, Poland had a large indigenous industry. Honker jeeps, Sokol helicopters, Star and Jelcz trucks, etc.

5) Military education - Poland was second only to Moscow in how many Angolans, Cubans, Vietnamese, and Ethiopians were trained and given an education. Many of them went on to become big people in their home countries.

6) Internal Security and Control - even the KGB was envious of the reach of the UB and the fierceness of the ZOMO riot police. Poland was a test bed for how to control populations. Polish security officers worked in every corner of the world advising governments on how to establish ironclad security. Solidarity ruined their reputation a little bit - but they were still among the most ruthless and efficient. Certainly more ruthless than our own Russian internal security forces.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


Depending on your view on things, Russia's top allies currently could either be:

1) Belarus

2) Kazakhstan

3) Kyrgyzstan

, or:

1) China

2) North Korea

3) Iran

--//--

The first three are "closest", because they exist together with us within the Eurasian Economic Union. They are members of our ODKB defense bloc. We have no internal borders for movement of labor or goods. There are several multinational institutions, like development banks, and joint commissions. They have large Russian speaking populations, and host important Russian military assets.

The alternative grouping are "closest", because they are the ones with actual weight. North Korea supplied us supposedly 12 million 152mm artillery shells, while the West struggle to provide Ukraine 3 million over 3 years. Iran transferred us ballistic missiles and drones. China provides us with hundreds of billions of dollars in hard currency, and makes their industry available for our needs - down to Russian defense companies opening plants in China, staffed by Chinese citizens.

For Poland to find itself a place in the top 3 - it either has to integrate as tightly as Belarus and Kazakhstan, or to become some European Israel - in its capacity to provide Russia with cutting edge weapons and R&D, as Israel does for the United States.

--///-

I think to sweeten the pill for Poland, it can be outsourced leadership within its sphere of influence. Within Central Asia, for example, Russia does not meddle in Kazakhstan's attempts to gain regional leadership over Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan. So long as Kazakhstan maintains due loyalty to the center.

The same can be done with Poland. Poland gets to kick around Lithuania and the Slovaks and Hungarians - and the Russians back them to greatest extent possible. In exchange, Poland backs Russia in other arenas.

Central Asia is actually a great example. They are terrified of both Russia and China. They are also worried about Iran. Like Poland they have always tried to balance. Russia is the only one that can afford them some degree of independence and protection from the Chinese Leviathan.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


This is no way to make friends with Russians, haha.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


Really?

I think we are the world's best at it, but suffer in comparison to the US because we don't have Hollywood and some other soft power tools.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


Propaganda is a powerful tool. It works amazingly, when there is coordination from both sides (look at Britain and the United States).

But it can also work even unilaterally, it's just harder.

People are impressionable creatures, and the time it takes to understand their motivations is usually less than one minute.

Important not to lose yourself in the torrent of bullsh*t however. The abyss can swallow even you - and then you are no longer an independent agent.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


I am speaking amongst colleagues - not civilians :)

I would never speak this way to the public - but only in very carefully measured pieces.


Slavs are hopelessly sentimental and melodramatic. It's easy to push their buttons, if you understand the architecture of their brains.


They work.

Nobody likes to do it, and intellectually it's not the most exciting adventure, but it f*cking works.

You select the 3-4 "pain points" which produce results - and then you hammer away at them with Stakhanovite consistency.

Not Brits, not Americans - no one is impervious to such sustained pressure. Poles and Russians most assuredly.

If we believe our cause is right, then we can take these instruments on board.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


If Mr. Konstantin Ernst at Russia's "Channel 1", gave me the job of making Russians "Pole-mad" - I could do it in 4-5 years.

For some reason I think that's the most effective way to do it. Highlighting Polish actors/actresses, music, and common historical victories on television. People are stupid - and they gobble that sh*t up.

--//--

If I was working for Poland's government - I would inexorably bring up the topic of Bandera - and develop Polish hatred for Ukrainians. This is a formula that seemed to pay dividends in Hungary and Slovakia. Its symmetrical corollary is increased love for Russia.

I would encourage anti-war protests. A very large anti-war protest in Warsaw would do wonders for Russians' sentiments towards Poland.

I would encourage neutrality - at every possible step. This would also be very resonant for Russians.

I would fund campaigns against green energy, and Euroskeptic parties.

I would publish constant documentary films that would familiarize modern generations with life in the PRL - through a favorable light.

--///--

These methods may be unsavory - but I think it's how it works.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


Russian-Polish friendship will take a very long time to build.

Smolensk put a stop to the attempts of the early 2000s - but that was a very promising period.

We need to do it the same way Chinese-Russian friendship has been developed. Believe me. I was skeptical but it is working:

1) Young people are studying Chinese at all levels

2) People are vacationing there

3) People are sending their kids there to study

4) Russians have overcome their disdain towards Chinese products and consume them now voraciously.

To a much lesser extent, Chinese interest in Russia is also growing.

So back to my thesis - how did we build this relationship:

1) Routine and frequent contacts between our top leadership. Xi has not met anybody more than he has met Putin. Putin only met Lukashenko more frequently than he met Xi.

2) Years of Russia in China, and Years of China in Russia. Sounds stupid - but surprisingly effective. People get to know the other country through these year round festivals involving cultural and artistic exchanges.

3) Effective state propaganda. Russians are through natural disposition wary of the Chinese. So the Kremlin put serious effort into painting this image of them as cuddly and lovable pandas. We need to then brainwash Poles and Russians into discarding their previous apprehensions about each other.

4) You need to put real money behind "people-to-people" exchanges, to build up the core cadre of "Poland Lovers" and "Russia Lovers" that will then go on to evangelize their love. This means sending Russian children to study at university in Warsaw, and sending Polish children to study in Moscow. We need to organize sports matches. We need to organize scientific conferences. Joint archaeological digs. Various cultural symposiums.

If we don't do the heavy lifting, this lofty dream will never come to be.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


What?

When has Russia ever stated it does not want Poland to exist?

400 years of common history is proof that Russians don't try to erase Poles. From the Tsars, through the Bolsheviks, and to the present day.

Every Russian understands that Poles are distinct from us - not so with Russian views on Ukrainians and Belarusians.

I think 3 grades of education is enough to understand that you won't be able to shape a Russian out of a Pole. There are too many inherent differences.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


I think this would be a huge mistake.

Insofar as Poland represents an attractive interlocutor and advocate for Russia - it is because it is embedded deeply within EU structures.

It's very nice of course to have Orban and Fico advocating for Russia, but these are small players at the end of the day. Small populations, small economies, and already somewhat marginalized within the EU. Nonetheless - you can see on their example that Russia is willing to reciprocate when someone turns a "human face" in our direction. Whether it's energy, or cash.

Poland is a big country. Large economy. Central position. Your bureaucrats have achieved high positions within the EU's top hierarchy (Tusk). Therefore, Polish support is much more valuable than Orban's or Fico's.

But when it comes to establishing direct links with Russia, I think Poland will have strong competition from the French, Germans, and Italians. These three countries have much more powerful pro-Russian lobbies (chambers of commerce, Russophilic societies, large Russian diasporas, and an institutional history of seeking out partnership with Russia).

I don't think it's realistic that Poland will become suddenly friendly towards Russia. It would be great, and would vindicate Torq's vision (I'm sure), but it just won't happen.

I think Georgia and Ukraine will reorient towards Russia, sooner than Poland will - and that's quite a statement.

Also, I'm not sure Russia is ready to view Poland as an equal partner. I might want this. Some nerds at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and at various Slavic faculties in universities around the country - might want this. But I'm sure that the Kremlin would make some clumsy missteps that would p*ss the Poles off and destroy the chances for any rapprochement.

I think the only way Poland would arrive in Russia's embrace, is if it was somehow significantly hurt by its existing Western partners.

Genealogy / Polish and gypsy traditions [140]


From what I understood from my grandparents and parents generation - it was somewhat of a cliche in Soviet times that Gypsies were rich.

My grandma told me that she once borrowed some funds from a Gypsy. When the time came to pay it back, the older Gypsy lady invited her to her apartment. She said she saw paintings with frames like they were from the Hermitage. Racks and racks of fur coats. Persian rugs.

Like the Jews, they had access to hard currency - probably because they would crowd all the foreign tourists flying into the Soviet Union or arriving by train.

They would sell people Rubles in exchange for Marks and Francs. They would buy whatever consumer items the tourists had on them - jeans, cassette players, watches - and then resell them to Soviet people at a 3-4X markup.

Anyway, back to my grandma's story. She said the same older woman would walk around outside in a tired old shawl and wearing galoshes. So the bit about Gypsies hiding their wealth rings kind of true to me.

When I asked my grandma how this Gypsy lady became so rich, she told me that they had been helping emigres drum up cash after the revolution and during the 20s and 30s. All the people that moved to Paris and New York, they sold their property to Jewish and Gypsy "fixers".

This is kind of puzzling to me - since I can understand why the Jews were useful, but I can't see why the Gypsies were. Jews have an international network - and are able to transfer money even between closed systems like the Soviet one and Western ones. You could give property to a family member in Moscow, and then receive payment from another family member in New York.

But how did the Gypsies facilitate this? I think what they did instead, is offered gold and precious stones in exchange for property. The Russian emigres could then trade this gold and stones for whatever they needed in emigration.

Genealogy / Polish and gypsy traditions [140]


Speak for yourself.

We had banyas.

We've been steaming ourselves and washing ourselves, since the moment we started living in forests.

-///-

Kind of off topic, but I find their women to be incredibly beautiful. The men - are ugly cavemen.

Kind of the opposite of the Bulgarians and Greeks among whom they emerged. Where the Bulgarian men and Greek men are very handsome, but the women have mustaches and are maximally unattractive.

Russians and Poles got the opposite curse. Men that look like Oompa Loompas, and women that look like goddesses.