News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


This is no way to make friends with Russians, haha.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


Really?

I think we are the world's best at it, but suffer in comparison to the US because we don't have Hollywood and some other soft power tools.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


Propaganda is a powerful tool. It works amazingly, when there is coordination from both sides (look at Britain and the United States).

But it can also work even unilaterally, it's just harder.

People are impressionable creatures, and the time it takes to understand their motivations is usually less than one minute.

Important not to lose yourself in the torrent of bullsh*t however. The abyss can swallow even you - and then you are no longer an independent agent.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


I am speaking amongst colleagues - not civilians :)

I would never speak this way to the public - but only in very carefully measured pieces.


Slavs are hopelessly sentimental and melodramatic. It's easy to push their buttons, if you understand the architecture of their brains.


They work.

Nobody likes to do it, and intellectually it's not the most exciting adventure, but it f*cking works.

You select the 3-4 "pain points" which produce results - and then you hammer away at them with Stakhanovite consistency.

Not Brits, not Americans - no one is impervious to such sustained pressure. Poles and Russians most assuredly.

If we believe our cause is right, then we can take these instruments on board.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


If Mr. Konstantin Ernst at Russia's "Channel 1", gave me the job of making Russians "Pole-mad" - I could do it in 4-5 years.

For some reason I think that's the most effective way to do it. Highlighting Polish actors/actresses, music, and common historical victories on television. People are stupid - and they gobble that sh*t up.

--//--

If I was working for Poland's government - I would inexorably bring up the topic of Bandera - and develop Polish hatred for Ukrainians. This is a formula that seemed to pay dividends in Hungary and Slovakia. Its symmetrical corollary is increased love for Russia.

I would encourage anti-war protests. A very large anti-war protest in Warsaw would do wonders for Russians' sentiments towards Poland.

I would encourage neutrality - at every possible step. This would also be very resonant for Russians.

I would fund campaigns against green energy, and Euroskeptic parties.

I would publish constant documentary films that would familiarize modern generations with life in the PRL - through a favorable light.

--///--

These methods may be unsavory - but I think it's how it works.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


Russian-Polish friendship will take a very long time to build.

Smolensk put a stop to the attempts of the early 2000s - but that was a very promising period.

We need to do it the same way Chinese-Russian friendship has been developed. Believe me. I was skeptical but it is working:

1) Young people are studying Chinese at all levels

2) People are vacationing there

3) People are sending their kids there to study

4) Russians have overcome their disdain towards Chinese products and consume them now voraciously.

To a much lesser extent, Chinese interest in Russia is also growing.

So back to my thesis - how did we build this relationship:

1) Routine and frequent contacts between our top leadership. Xi has not met anybody more than he has met Putin. Putin only met Lukashenko more frequently than he met Xi.

2) Years of Russia in China, and Years of China in Russia. Sounds stupid - but surprisingly effective. People get to know the other country through these year round festivals involving cultural and artistic exchanges.

3) Effective state propaganda. Russians are through natural disposition wary of the Chinese. So the Kremlin put serious effort into painting this image of them as cuddly and lovable pandas. We need to then brainwash Poles and Russians into discarding their previous apprehensions about each other.

4) You need to put real money behind "people-to-people" exchanges, to build up the core cadre of "Poland Lovers" and "Russia Lovers" that will then go on to evangelize their love. This means sending Russian children to study at university in Warsaw, and sending Polish children to study in Moscow. We need to organize sports matches. We need to organize scientific conferences. Joint archaeological digs. Various cultural symposiums.

If we don't do the heavy lifting, this lofty dream will never come to be.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


What?

When has Russia ever stated it does not want Poland to exist?

400 years of common history is proof that Russians don't try to erase Poles. From the Tsars, through the Bolsheviks, and to the present day.

Every Russian understands that Poles are distinct from us - not so with Russian views on Ukrainians and Belarusians.

I think 3 grades of education is enough to understand that you won't be able to shape a Russian out of a Pole. There are too many inherent differences.

News / Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia? [396]


I think this would be a huge mistake.

Insofar as Poland represents an attractive interlocutor and advocate for Russia - it is because it is embedded deeply within EU structures.

It's very nice of course to have Orban and Fico advocating for Russia, but these are small players at the end of the day. Small populations, small economies, and already somewhat marginalized within the EU. Nonetheless - you can see on their example that Russia is willing to reciprocate when someone turns a "human face" in our direction. Whether it's energy, or cash.

Poland is a big country. Large economy. Central position. Your bureaucrats have achieved high positions within the EU's top hierarchy (Tusk). Therefore, Polish support is much more valuable than Orban's or Fico's.

But when it comes to establishing direct links with Russia, I think Poland will have strong competition from the French, Germans, and Italians. These three countries have much more powerful pro-Russian lobbies (chambers of commerce, Russophilic societies, large Russian diasporas, and an institutional history of seeking out partnership with Russia).

I don't think it's realistic that Poland will become suddenly friendly towards Russia. It would be great, and would vindicate Torq's vision (I'm sure), but it just won't happen.

I think Georgia and Ukraine will reorient towards Russia, sooner than Poland will - and that's quite a statement.

Also, I'm not sure Russia is ready to view Poland as an equal partner. I might want this. Some nerds at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and at various Slavic faculties in universities around the country - might want this. But I'm sure that the Kremlin would make some clumsy missteps that would p*ss the Poles off and destroy the chances for any rapprochement.

I think the only way Poland would arrive in Russia's embrace, is if it was somehow significantly hurt by its existing Western partners.

Genealogy / Polish and gypsy traditions [140]


From what I understood from my grandparents and parents generation - it was somewhat of a cliche in Soviet times that Gypsies were rich.

My grandma told me that she once borrowed some funds from a Gypsy. When the time came to pay it back, the older Gypsy lady invited her to her apartment. She said she saw paintings with frames like they were from the Hermitage. Racks and racks of fur coats. Persian rugs.

Like the Jews, they had access to hard currency - probably because they would crowd all the foreign tourists flying into the Soviet Union or arriving by train.

They would sell people Rubles in exchange for Marks and Francs. They would buy whatever consumer items the tourists had on them - jeans, cassette players, watches - and then resell them to Soviet people at a 3-4X markup.

Anyway, back to my grandma's story. She said the same older woman would walk around outside in a tired old shawl and wearing galoshes. So the bit about Gypsies hiding their wealth rings kind of true to me.

When I asked my grandma how this Gypsy lady became so rich, she told me that they had been helping emigres drum up cash after the revolution and during the 20s and 30s. All the people that moved to Paris and New York, they sold their property to Jewish and Gypsy "fixers".

This is kind of puzzling to me - since I can understand why the Jews were useful, but I can't see why the Gypsies were. Jews have an international network - and are able to transfer money even between closed systems like the Soviet one and Western ones. You could give property to a family member in Moscow, and then receive payment from another family member in New York.

But how did the Gypsies facilitate this? I think what they did instead, is offered gold and precious stones in exchange for property. The Russian emigres could then trade this gold and stones for whatever they needed in emigration.

Genealogy / Polish and gypsy traditions [140]


Speak for yourself.

We had banyas.

We've been steaming ourselves and washing ourselves, since the moment we started living in forests.

-///-

Kind of off topic, but I find their women to be incredibly beautiful. The men - are ugly cavemen.

Kind of the opposite of the Bulgarians and Greeks among whom they emerged. Where the Bulgarian men and Greek men are very handsome, but the women have mustaches and are maximally unattractive.

Russians and Poles got the opposite curse. Men that look like Oompa Loompas, and women that look like goddesses.

Genealogy / Polish and gypsy traditions [140]


They are the opposite of Jews.

When a very hard nosed Jew deals dishonestly with someone - he can tell himself - I only fooled a Goy and not another human being.

Gypsies feel they are subhuman to the rest of humanity. "We steal, because we are ****".

"Nazis put us in the oven by the million - we don't complain - lest it attract more attention."

Humiliation means nothing. Dishonor is not a concept. Hatred, is shrugged off.

Truly - the antipodes of the Jews when it comes to strange diasporas.

-//--

I've always been very upset that the world does not spend more time discussing the millions of Slavs, gays, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc that were exterminated by the Germans. But I feel especially upset when I remember and realize that the cruelest things were done to the Gypsies, and they don't even have the ability to give that pain voice. As if the things that were done to them, never happened.

Preteen Gypsy twins tortured and poisoned by Dr. Mengele. A Gypsy mother and her child frozen to death - while observed by German doctors. Etc, and so on.

One group has museums, annual days of remembrance, and commands the piety of the world entire - while the other is treated as if it deserved it.

Genealogy / Polish and gypsy traditions [140]


Don't take my words to the extreme.

They are Gods of music. Of food. And Woodwork. Also very talented metallurgists.

The women... ahhh.

Don't use me as some example of Gypsy hate - my views are a bit more complex.

Genealogy / Polish and gypsy traditions [140]


Yes - like the Russian Bratva or "Brotherhood". Emerging from Stalin's camps, they have now been so successful that they imposed their prison mentality onto all of us.

F*ck "subcultures".

I don't respect any turd that tries to sell me criminality as mainstream.

I am with the Reds. The cops. The KGB. The army.

While someone steals to feed his ass, others sacrifice beyond measure. This cannot be so.

Genealogy / Polish and gypsy traditions [140]


If there were, I'd be highly surprised. Largely - we pretend they don't exist, until something bad happens. Then, there is a lot of bad blood on all sides. The gypsies are angry at us for stealing their children, and we are angry at them for allowing children to grow up in such an environment.

I'm sure they themselves are not happy being who they are.

A kid born into that environment has no chance. The Russian state or some kindly local Russian - are their only way to becoming contributing members of society.

--/////-

Completely off topic... but back home - we had a famous Gypsy that was my age. In fact, he was born in exactly 1989 - same as me. His thing was standing in the middle of traffic, begging for money from cars. His schtick was that he pretend to have cerebral palsy.

In the evening, when I saw him off work, the motherf*cker had an iPod Video (which I didn't have), and an amazing set of headphones. He would also go to the mall, and stroll through Zara and H&M.

One day - people got tired of him, and beat him so hard he almost became a genuine handicap. Guess what? Next day he showed up at work, as though nothing happened.

Genealogy / Polish and gypsy traditions [140]


I've watched Guy Ritchie's "Snatch". I got a small dose of what English attitudes towards Pikeys are.

If Jason Statham and Guy Ritchie are representative of what the average Englishman thinks about Pikeys - then spare me your melodrama.


Right. Every depiction of Irish Travellers and English Gypsies I've seen - shows them as thieving bastards.


Good for him. I have a female friend that is 75% Romani - she is a credit to her history faculty.


Alright well this went too far and was uncalled for.

Genealogy / Polish and gypsy traditions [140]


Turned into normal, non-thieving, non-scamming individuals.

Will you argue that parasitizing on good English folk and Russian folk is a good way to live?

Do their own kids not feel self conscious about this way of life their father is imposing upon them?

Do they not see - how their mother has no rights and is treated as less than human?

They carry the same blueprint within their souls as me - so I assume they want the same thing.

Genealogy / Polish and gypsy traditions [140]


Kind of zero, I'm afraid.

The central government has no gypsy policy. The Kremlin does not know Gypsies exist.

Policy is determined locally, by municipal leaders and governors.

Usually the methods are coercive. Some kind of murder or other gruesome crime happens within a Gypsy tabor, and the government cracks down. Takes away their children, places them in Russian boarding schools, and forcibly Russifies them.

If it doesn't go the extreme boarding school route, they still insist on educating the kids - sometimes under convoy and armed guards.

This is the only way that Gypsies ever reform - if you steal them away from their family and immerse them in secular Russian education.

Genealogy / Polish and gypsy traditions [140]


Nope.

Genealogy / Polish and gypsy traditions [140]

They are surprisingly polyglot-ish.

The "uncle" who first confronted me - first spoke English to me. Then Italian. Finally he spoke Russian.

Amazing language skills.

When I heard his Russian accent, I knew immediately he was not from Romania or Bulgaria, but from Moldova, or somewhere in Odessa Oblast. Asked him if he's proud of himself, and whether the family back home knows how he feeds himself. Mentioned the name of a couple famous tabors that settle around Odessa and Chisinau.

He immediately sh*t his pants.

They're only good at scaring Western tourists. When confronted with somebody from the home country, they are meek as mice.

Genealogy / Polish and gypsy traditions [140]


A relative concept.

On the scale of Russian crime - they are a nuisance more than anything else.

Pickpocketing, palm readings, scam games, livestock theft - that's the extent of their criminality.

They're not selling anyone into sexual slavery. They're not bringing in shipments of heroin. They don't do murder for hire, or extortion. They don't assist rogue regimes in smuggling arms or radioactive materials.

They still irritate me. Especially their men. Sitting on their ass all day, smoking cigarettes and sipping on tea - while their wives and children beg on street corners. What kind of man is that?

What kind of man - melts away into the crowd - at the first sign of danger, and lets women and children handle his matters for him? This is what happened in that Paris incident that happened with me and my friend.

Ten beers deep, and several double whiskies - we were hoping to cause a ruckus. My friend threw the guys game into the river (and was arrested shortly afterwards), while I was just lollygagging about hoping they would escalate. Sure enough, the "uncle" of the group tried some cheap intimidation tricks on me, but then when he understood that he is dealing with a completely disinhibited person simply vanished. Then the rest of the boys vanished. All that was left were hysterical women screaming into my ear and slapping away at my back, and tearful children.

When the Gendarmes arrived, it looked like we were trying to beat up a bunch of women and children.

Disgusting.

History / "How Poles Built Russia... [26]

@Torq

It upsets me that the things Russia is good at, are not very profitable. This thing you have brought up is one such example.

Who makes a f*cking piece of machinery that works nonstop from 1969 to 2025? That's just stupid. American and European manufacturers have planned obsolescence, and make more money from part supplies over the life of a product than from the initial sale.

The things in which we're world class are super niche. A firefighting airplane. An icebreaker. An amphibious transport. All sh*t that you can't sell more than a handful of - even if you build Canada's entire icebreaker fleet. Our firefighting planes - people most often don't buy them, but just rent them from us.

Russian's don't want to make a t-shirt or nice little handheld drill like the Chinese. We only want to make things that go "BOOM!" or are good for travelling through marshes or tundra.

Genealogy / Polish and gypsy traditions [140]


Same group we have in Russia.

Crazy that they managed to maintain commonality from Russia to UK.

Genealogy / Polish and gypsy traditions [140]


What relation do your English, Welsh, and Irish "Gypsies" have to our gypsies?

I always thought that the "travelling folk" were basically English, Welsh, Irish in dress costume. That you don't have real gypsies?

News / Poland to introduce border controls with Germany and Lithuania [101]


Not necessary. Just empower the necessary people to perform the cleansing - and they will do it cleaner than any vigilante or John Wayne.

Off-Topic / Stock Market Talk and Trading - part 2 [743]


I read that renewables capacity has for the first time overtaken coal fired capacity.

Genealogy / Polish and gypsy traditions [140]


Which makes sense.

Using modern gene sequencing and linguistic analysis, scientists have narrowed down the origins of Gypsies to northwest India. Specifically Gujarat and Rajasthan.

It's speculated that it took them several hundred years to arrive in Europe (entering Europe through the Bosporus and through the northern Caspian Steppe).

But before we had DNA sequencing and other things, we had the story from the Shahnameh. The story is a mix of fact and legend, but it clearly shows they were initially called for their musical talents:

According to a legend reported in the Persian epic poem, the Shahnameh, the Sassanian king Bahram V Gor learned towards the end of his reign (421-439) that the poor could not afford to enjoy music, and so he asked the king of India to send him ten thousand luris, lute-playing experts. When the luris arrived, Bahrām gave each one an ox, a donkey, and a donkey-load of wheat so they could live on agriculture and play music for free for the poor. However, the luris ate the oxen and the wheat and came back a year later with their cheeks hollowed by hunger. The king, angered with their having wasted what he had given them, ordered them to pack up their bags and go wandering around the world on their donkeys.

To me it's mind blowing, that before airplanes, and ships, and trains, several tens of thousands of people managed to walk from India to Portugal - in what in historical terms - amounts to the blink of an eye.

Genealogy / Polish and gypsy traditions [140]

@jon357

Ok, maybe I'm wrong. I know plenty of people that lead normal lives that are half or quarter or whatever, but never a full blown representative of the people.

Genealogy / Polish and gypsy traditions [140]


Oh stop it...

He must be a half breed. Never saw a genuine Gypsy in finance.

Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [414]


If I only judged books by the criteria of how much their message comports with my inherent biases - I would still look and sound like Johnny Reb.

Genealogy / Polish and gypsy traditions [140]


If they are wrong - then what do they do instead?

In Russia - if they are honest - they engage largely in vegetable sales (retail), and woodwork.