News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]


How many km of highways and high speed roads does Hungary have vs Poland? :)))


On the country wide level in an economical situation of Poland? 40~ according to some analysts we'll be approaching the German level by 2030 but still will lag behind.


Is it?


Wiki autobahns and asphalt highways :)


Thats absolutely true, on the other hand if they were taken care of properly the effects would still not be significantly better than they are today.


The money that exists in your head only you mean?


In Wrocław? There's a shortage of funds atm.

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]


Had better infrastructure to begin with and survived the war intact, with the exception of Hungarians who's example you've taken out of your ass, Hungary has far worse infrastructure than Poland.


Thats generally because we have to prioritize with our money, key channels first, secondary routes... Sometimes later.

Poland after the war didnt have roads, then you had communism with its central planning (aka no planning at all and fock all economy) and suddenly we end up with 45 years worth of dilapitated, destroyed or ruined infrastrucure and only about 15% budget of Western countries to fix that.

Then add to it our recovering economy and the fact that even with union grants we can devote much less moola to our infrastructure sector then anyone West of us while having epic sized problems with it and you have an answer.

In 20 years Poland will be a wealthy country but the roads will still be sh*tty.

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]


If he's a conscript trainee yeah i would, otherwise its a stupid idea in any country.


Money.


Rubbish.

Germans didnt attack Switzerland because:

1. German speaking 75% majority of Switzerland hated Nazism and there was no hope of Austria like anschluss.

2.The Swiss would blow up tunnels and bridges critical for transport from Italy effectively ******* up some of the most crucial rail routes for years.

3. The Swiss bought german gold and were the only real source of exchangeable currency as german money was no longer internationally recognized.

As far as military Germans could basically drive to Swiss capital in 4-5 days with a single tank regiment.

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]

Must be why our GDP was the only one growing in Europe in the past 2 years, cause things dont work right in the country, we love arguing convex that doesnt mean we dont make things tick while shouting at each other.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]


Thats one reason yes, they believed Germany could be controlled by various concessions, possibly even by Poland.


Kriegsmarine could never be at anything close to Royal Navy, too many resources had to be pumped into the land forces and while german design and industry were top notch their administrative distribution of funds and resources was in total chaos.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]


Of course not but Germany didnt feel safe enough to build full scale battleships (for a time) subs for example were bastard children of the worlds top navies and untill Germans rocked the world with their wolf packs no one really bothered.

This is to point out to Seanus' that the navy buildup was not done secret and was completely impossible to hide due to amount of meterials needed.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]


Who says about sending them to Poland? Send them to France in 1939.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]

Sean my point with pocket ships is that Germany was bypassing the treaties because the West was watching and it could not be kept secret.

If they could build dreads in secrecy they wouldnt even bother making weaker lighter vessels.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]


What other choice did Poland have?


I meant Sean when i was writing that.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]


You've got me lost here, whats your point?


Navy wise? The only major engagement bar sub warfare happened in Norway when a bunch of destroyers shot each other apart, there was also Bismarck and thats it, Germans were very aware that their blue water navy would get blown to bits.

If you mean the fleet then it wasnt developed in secrecy, why do you think pocket battleships were made as pocket battleships?

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]


Everyone in Europe knew everyone else heavy vessels if thats what you mean, Germany had 12 heavy vessels, 2 battleships, 2 battlecruises, 2 pre-dreds and 6 heavy cruisers.

By comparison Britain had 6 battlecruises alone, also add to that the French fleet.


What do you mean? We know their radars, their armor thickness, we know the kind of shells and caliber of guns, we even know what kind of lightbulbs were used on Tirpitz' crappers.


Thats just my opinion nothing more but given that you hand out conspiration theories left right and centre seems strange you mind.


Of course.

wpk.p.lodz.pl/~bolas/main/uzbrojenie/luftkrieg/luft/luft.htm

I stand corrected though the actual number is around 400 which is still much less than 500+ Morraines and assorted Hurricanes, we're talking about 1939 since by 40 Germans outnumbered France and the expeditionary Brits.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]


I have no idea why they betrayed us, my personal opinion is that they hoped Hitler and Russia would go at it and the alliance was to ensure Poland gets destroyed instead of allying with Germany but thats my opinion nothing more.


I'm sorry i meant the entire war, still Luftwaffe had only 230 fighters and 1200 bombers and it could not devote more then half to the Western front, remember that most of the major victories over Poles were made possible by overwhelming airforce presence.


What German navy?

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]


They could've just y'know invade, Germans had 200 thousand militias and reserve troops along the border, French army could roll up their defence within 48 hours, the French had more tanks mobilised than german contingents artillery, tanks and armored cars combined.


Still Brits had a navy that could effectively blockade Germany, they could've easily land their forces as well as a French contingent to bolster Poland, they could do a lot more then token bombings and pamphlet dropping, between France and UK their combined strategic capacities were unlimited.


Out of 2000~ 562 were damaged, out of said 562 approximiately 101-150 (sources vary and i'll ignore Emmerling as he's full of biased sh*t) were destroyed, in mid September Luftwaffe was down to 75% of its strength and only a portion of its machines were actuall bombers (in total about 1200) and they were needed above Poland.

Even if we assume that Germany could devote a completely unrealistic amount of 50% of its active airforce to fight Brits and the French thats only about 700 combat planes, less than 90 fighters in that number.

By comparison France in 1939 had 535 M.S.406 fighters, UK could easily pitch in with at least 250-300 Hurricanes, fighters alone would outnumber the grand total of German combat machines of all types.


With 200 fighter aircraft and at least half of them being forced to stay in Poland Luftwaffe could do sh*t, combined allied airforce totalled at over 800 fighter aircraft against Luftwaffes 230~ with 30% of it being made up by heavy fighters which were weak unwieldy machines.


I think that the French middle finger was big enough that any discussion about France possibly joining us can be dropped, they were ready to wave the flag and thats it.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]


Notice that nothing is said about any official polish responce (or any polish responce whatsoever) its still iffy, nothing in our press, no mention of any officials in russian press, one senator is named and thats it, i'll make a thread in the politics section if something comes up in our newspapers.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]


Will do, for now it looks kinda iffy, who did they sent an invitation to exactly, did they get a reply and if so was it positive etc, no such facts for now.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]


Looks like someone tries to drop a bomb, cant find any confirmation in our press.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]


Got any more info?

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]


Paganism in XV century Poland???

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]


Which is exactly why so many peasants took part in Kościuszkos uprising or why 80% of legionaries have been country people, both patriotism and nationalism existed and were a major theme in the period, you need to learn about our history before you try to issue opinions.

"I believe" = i know sh*t but i feel compelled to have an opinion and sell it as if it was educated rather then shyte i made up from the top of my head, thats what your post really is.


For one thing they didnt tax Poles for being Polish, didnt persecute Catholicism, didnt send Polish children to 10-20 year long compulsory military service?

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]


Truly you speak the truth long live Wielkarzeczpospolita.net! :D

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]


Sean UK could do a LOT, it could launch amass its Atlantic Fleet and land several armored brigades in Gdańsk retaking it, it could land around Hel Penninsula or destroy the German fleet in its harbors.

100% of German bomber force was in Poland and not moving anywhere since without it Germans would be in trouble, UK had a 100 thousand fully mechanised force with enough assets to drop it in Poland, whenever i hear that UK was not ready i call bollocks.

France had nearly 700k troops on the border as well, if either of those lazy fvcks decided to move the war would have ended then and there, of course today its easier to rewrite history as to show that Poland represented no challenge and was overrun just like that.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]

The problem of Polish army was its high command not Germans, Rydz Śmigły was completely detached from reality since he was holed up in some podunk place not to mention Polish army had no fronts, no army groups and the command structure was such that all armies had to fare for themselves, Bzura is the only time when 2 Polish armies worked together and even then it was not perfect, still its effects were tremendous and for 10 days every general in Wehrmacht was crapping his pants.


There was only one sensible contingency plan, dig in in the Romanian Triangle and draw Germans into a protracted winter war, Germans themselves knew they were unable to roll up Polish army before the winter which is why they sent a letter to Stalin by 12th or 14th in which they asked for assistance.

At the same time the allies decided that Poland is lost and there's no point in dying for it even though Bzura proved thats not the case, Stachiewicz couldnt do anything beyond what he already did and when Russia entered the war any optional solution vanished instantly.


Yes it was, you have to remember how easily France and England sold Czechoslovakia to Hitler, while Poland was hoping that the West would honor its end of agreement the goverment was not stupid, there were very real fears that Poland will be sold by chunks or that lack of compliance with Franco-British wishes can provide an excuse not to help.

Thats the same reason why the Battle of the Border was even fought, originally withdrawal beyond the great rivers was considered but Poles feared that Hitler would just take the emptied provinces and the West goes Czechoslovakia on us.


Strategically it was a failure for Poland since we lost, it gave UK and France a year to prepare, a year they did not use at all so on this front it was a failure as well (though Franco-British not ours).

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]


Books, opinions of experts, historical archives.


Ok lets try it this way, invasion of Poland was not fought using blitz tactics but blitz elements were present in it, i think we're calling the same horse with two different names.


Actually the limited visibility was due to fires, another thing is Germans did not have enough bombers to moonscape Warsaw quickly and efficiently enough.


The Old Town?

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]


Bottom line i base myself off books, many of them by Germans what do you base your point on?


Come on Sean Guderian serving an agenda? What would be the point? Yes Guderian lies repeatedly when for example a three day long Polish battle might throw a speck on his reputation he describes it as "uncertain conditions" but why would he lie about Blitzkrieg.


Elements of Blitzkrieg were used, organic air support (luftwaffe co-ordinators driving around with tanks) and breakthroughs with tanks, the difference between polish war and french or russian theatres was that tanks were usually unable to push deep on their own with them reaching Warsaw as one of the few exceptions.

German victory was fast but it was made possible such as it was only by the Russian invasion, though the conflict was fluid it was not a lighting war, polish army did not collapse due to german efforts, it collapsed due to Red Army destroying the rear.

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]


Germany ordered 185 modern self propelled artillery, we ordered 8, Germany ordered 140 modern multirole fighters, we ordered 48.


Economy breast fed by USA and 50 years of head start as far as a free market while we were host to Russians.


Nope, US already showed its unwilling to help Poland out.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]


So basically all publications that dont fit your uneducated view of how things went down are garbage? Guderian himself admitted traditional tactics were used in Poland in "Memoirs of a Soldier" but you know better then the guy who created Blitzkrieg


Its not relevant whether i am or am not an expert, bottom line is i base my words on knowledge, you base it on opinions, your own to make it worse.


I'm Polish.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]


I did, some of the most ferocious battles of 1939 were fought as a result of major polish offensives.


We threw approximately 700k men out of grand total of 1.3 milion available for active duty, thats less than 2/3rds.

How about instead of attempting discussion off the top of your hat you go to histmag and learn something about the defensive war Seanus?


That was me being sarcastic, Germans didnt f*ck with polish comms, WP simply did not have an effective comms procedure and thats it, when static war became fast and fluid the procedures built for trench warfare went FUBAR.


Not really, Jews brought much strife to Poland and ultimately betrayed her, most Poles feel that we should have never invited them in the first place as they were a complete disapointment as citizens.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]


And because our defensive instincts are powerfull our offensives gave Germans such a boatload of trouble? C'mon Sean even to you it must sound bloody silly.


You mean the antiquated radios?


They had numerical advantage between 2:1 and 5:1 depending on the battle if thats what you're asking.

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]


Malaysia received a version of a tank thats close in quality to Leo2A4.


No idea if it becomes a bestseller, both are top notch designs though, they've got Humvees manouverability while burning only half of its fuel consumption and having armor protection of a light APC.


Arguably best wheeled infantry vehicles in the world at the moment.

History / The great mistakes of Poland's history? [216]


Any publication, they're quite well known battles, operation Wasserkante had zip effect on polish morale or defence of the city.


Find yourself a link thats not a wiki to the Battle of Bzura or Tomaszów Lubelski, you'll learn a bit about how "easily" Germans repelled polish assaults.


Battle of Bzura - 10 days.
Battle of Tomaszów Lubelski - 7 days.
Siege of Hel - 32 days.

Thats pretty protracted and very complicated, if you want we can get into any major battle to show you just how complicated they were.


Nope, the terror they caused did not result in a surrender, they failed to destroy or weaken any significant military instalations, they did wreck a lot of houses but thats militarily insignificant.