History / Poles and (Polish) Jews... Victims of war... and beyond [380]


You mean Eugenia Pohl?

Or after the war Eugenia Poll who was able to work and live in Lodz until the 70's when she was finally comprehended and sent to jail?

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Poles and (Polish) Jews... Victims of war... and beyond [380]


Just have a look at this:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom

Quote:


So I guess that clears this misunderstanding on your part.


Have a look at this:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Geneva_Convention

Read article IV, it gives a definition of what a POW is. Note that Civilians and Soldiers in captivity are treated under the same section.

As for THE Jews, well that has been a lengthy process by the countries themselves. When Jews did sth good, they were civilians of that particular country; when they did sth bad it were suddenly THE Jews. It was like that long before the war, so the Jews said: if we're gonna be THE Jews when some of us do bad things, we might as well be THE Jews if we do sth good, hence, we're THE Jews. Also, they have been treated by all the "good" countries as an isolated group for centuries anyway. So it's not a surprise. And besides, the Poles themselves for the biggest part didn't see Jews as Polish, so to include them as Polish citizens AFTER the Holocaust would SEEM like an attempt to make the Holocaust aimed at Poland mainly or make it an exclusively Polish thing, which it wasn't. I'm not saying that it is, that's why I added "seem" in capitals; it just looks that way.


If you had read well, you could've seen that I mention these specific groups as well, even the fact that there were black ppl in the KZ's.


That's what I'm arguing for in my last two previous posts.


I still stand by this remark. The point was that the Holocaust is generally mentioned as the event that killed the Jews, while for Porajmos there is no other inclusion except Gypsies. I still thnk you didn't understand what I was saying.

And as for on-topic: I'm on topic as can be. If you want a seperate entry for the Poles, one cannot escape a seperate entry for the Russians, be they POW's or Civilians or the 1 mln Russian Jews that were killed. It's not a matter of exclusivity, but if you want that, you indeed should invent a term like I coined earlier, sth like "Polonocide". Or simply leave the Wiki entry as it is, as it does justice to the proportions within the whole of the Holocaust, because, if you want to keep strictly to civilians, the Jewish group of victims was the biggest in absolute terms: (according to the Wikilink I posted earlier):

Jews (total): 5,752,400 (of which Polish Jews: 3,000,000 and Russian Jews: 1,000,000)
Polish Civilians: 2,380,000 to 2,580,000; Russian Civilians: 12,254,000 to 14,154,000

Actually, if you look at these figures in an absolute way, Russian Civilians were the biggest group, but those include partizans as well, just like the number of Polish civilians include resistance fighters, while the Jews didn't have large and organized partizan groups or the like, besides small factions here and there, which mainly have survived the war anyway. So you tell me: in absolute figures, the Russians would be the biggest victims, in relative terms it's the Jews; don't you think Wiki does justice to the proportions within the event of the Holocaust? If there is anything to be adjusted, it's minor things and there should be an entry for the Russian victims as the Polish ones are already covered in there.

>^..^<

M-G (fair's fair)

History / Poles and (Polish) Jews... Victims of war... and beyond [380]


I think you didn't understand what I was trying to point out with the example of the Russian soldiers in captivity, so let me try and make it a bit more clear. Hardly any, if any at all of the Western soldiers captured were deliberately killed off by the Nazis. Russian soldiers, on the other hand were deliberatedly killed or starved to death and since they weren't in active service anymore, disarmed and all, they can count as civilian victims too. That is, if you want to follow the rule of "victims" in the sense of killing unarmed ppl. In fact, most Russians that were killed during the war, were actually not killed in active service, but in concentration camps, which makes them part of the victims of the Holocaust. There is a substantial difference there.

If you want to incorporate the Polish victims, you for sure have to incorporate the Russian victims as well.

I have never said that I have anything against the incorporation of Polish victims into the whole of the Holocaust and I have also explained that the Holocaust wasn't adopted by the Jews at all as trademark or sth, but that it came in use generally as the other names were either too particularistic or too hard to pronounce for the average Westerner.

I have also explained that "Holocaust" was a generic Greek word that kinda came in handy as household name for the conglomerate of diverse exterminations performed by the Nazis: easy to pronounce by all nationalities.

Furthermore, I have many times explained that the focus was mainly on Jews due to the fact that right after WW2 Poland disappeared behind the Iron Curtain in the Cold War. If this wouldn't have happened, Polish victims would have been part of the focus as much as the Jews were. But since the Jews and Israël were part of the "free world", naturally the focus (in the West) shifted more to the Jews as they were more easily available, accessible than the Poles (let's not forget the group who got neglected everywhere, even in the "free world", the Gypsies with about a million victims as well; in a way they are the group that deserves the most pity of all the victims).

"Pogrom" on the other hand, is a Russian word to discribe specifically the murder of Jews. It was a word that was specifically created by Russians to give the various killings of Jews for various reasons a name. Sth completely different than Holocaust, sth that uneducated ppl don't seem to grasp. There were no Pogroms against Poles or Russians, ONLY against Jews and as far as I know hasn't it been used in any other context than killing of Jews, where ever this may have taken place.

Perhaps the best description of the Holocaust would be: "the non-fighting related killings of unarmed people on an organized scale to a near-extinctional status." Or: "The killing of unarmed ppl to a near extinctional state in a non-battle operational context." I think that comes closest to what it grasps. I think any of these two descriptions make it pssbl to cover all victims like Jews, Russians, Poles, Gypsies, Homosexuals, (Mentally) Handicapped, Political Opponents, Blacks (yes, there have been black KZ-prisoners), captured Resistance fighters (if not shot immediately) and so on.

To be honest, I think that Wikipedia covers that sufficiently. They put focus on the Jewish Holocaust because they were the biggest group (also a group that hadn't done anything than being a Jew and unlike ANY group of victims of the Holocaust didn't have any other choice than to die, like the Gypsies as well; they were in the same boat as the Jews for that matter). Also this biggest group is used to describe the processes of the Holocaust which were for all groups the same, once captured and interred in a KZ.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Poles and (Polish) Jews... Victims of war... and beyond [380]


You're bypassing the fact that plenty of the victims were in fact soldiers, fighting either with or against the Nazis and her allies. If you want to do in absolute figures, then you surely did not forget the Soviet Union with nearly half of all the victims/casualties of the war. This not only includes soldiers, but also civilians, which number is not even fully established. It's a vast country, yes, but still, over 20 million casualties is more than the whole population of a lot of the current countries of Europe/EU. Also, don't forget that Russian soldiers, once they were captured, were as good as dead as they too systematically got starved to death or simply murdered. Only a very small fraction of the total captured Russian soldiers survived the war. This is a fact that all too easily is overlooked on this forum when talking about victimisation and all.

One could, if following absolute figures, easily point out that the Soviet Union was the biggest sufferer in WW2. And I don't even want to touch the point of the most prolonged fighting that took place on Soviet soil and the lands that were destroyed in the process. And let's also not forget the mass murders of the civillian population of Russia that came under Nazi occupation, which was just as brutally treated as the civillians in Poland.

Taken all this in consideration, who would you say, was the biggest sufferer of WW2? I would say it was Russia.
Like it has been said in this thread and the 120 thousand other threads about this subject, Poles did somehow have a choice: when you commit with Jews, you're a goner, stay away from them and you won't be touched. And as far as the future extermination of the Polish ppl as planned by the Nazis is concerned, well, it is what it is, a future plan that was never carried out, so we impssbly can say if this would become truth or not.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_World_War_II

>^..^<

M-G (just look up the numbers, then you know how suffered the most in absolute terms)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


They were talking about the time when NL was occupied, not about after the war. Sorry for any misconception there.

Now go and enjoy the hot women in my clip and let me get on changins, will ya!

:)

>^..^<

M-G (hurry)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


I know that. Hitler considered them also the ppl that were closest related to the Germans, therefore he conducted a somewhat different approach. But, according to testimonials of captured German militairy after the war, they'd never met such general hatred towards them anywhere in Europe as in NL.

Now go and watch my aerobics clip in the "What are you listening to" thread, I'm sure you like the clip :)

>^..^<

M-G (really has to change now)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


Well, maybe not in Warschau, but I've seen pics of German troops entering Prague and plenty of the ppl there were cheering. I'm not saying everybody did it, but the members of any fascist party present in the country would do that. Yes - in NL as well, but also in other countries.


Of course not. But that's not what I meant. Indeed, I was aiming at the groups of collaborators, traitors, cowards and fascist groups as there were in most countries of Europe. The vast majority of course didn't cheer.

Well, I don't know if they were forced or not. If I have time I will post some pics, right now I have to hurry to get changed, my friends will come pick me up in an hour and since I'm kinda immobile at the moment, this changing takes quite some time. So probably tomorrow, ok?

>^..^<

M-G (actually if everybody thinks that NL was such a sympathising country, ask the contemporary Rotterdammers what they thought of the German invaders who just bombed their city to shatters and killed 8000 ppl in the process, or the ppl from Middelburg, who's city was devastated as well and the ppl from Rhenen and in Eindhoven)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


I am pretty sure of that. If you look closer at those pics, you will see that to every person that brings a hitler-greeting, there are dozens who don't and just look angry at those dirty occupiers.

And besides, there were ppl cheering the German troops as they marched in everywhere.


But take a look at the circumstances under which they rose to power? Nearly always there was some economic crisis going on or things were generally going downhill. Problem is that the mass doesn't look any further than their noses, as we say in NL. They seek immediate relief of their burdens and think they can retrieve that by getting a leader-type of person. Unfortunately, quick solutions don't last long and sometimes, as in Hitler's case, the remedy is much worse than the illness. To establish long lasting effects, the procedurs generally takes a long time with no immediate effects, but with more durable effects in the end.


So, there's no reason NOT to give me those bottles :) A shame, if you have a very good cabernet sauvignon or a good chablis, you don't want to drink anything else after that experience. My doctor ordered me to drink red wine, if I wanted to drink alcohol, and I haven't regretted it since. Before I liked white wine better, but white wine doesn't have the same effect as red wine does, because of the tanine in there.

>^..^<

M-G (is being picked up by friends later on today to share a nice glass with them)


Everywhere there were groups in the population that welcomed the German troops as they marched in. Everywhere there were ppl bringin the Hitler-greeting or giving them flowers. Not everybody, I'm not saying that, but there were always groups who did.

>^..^<

M-G (just look on pics)

Life / Are foreigners welcome in Poland? [267]


That's the point I made loads of times: (some) Poles think they can discriminate galore in Poland and yet they complain when discriminated when abroad. What goes around, comes around I'd say.

Thank God, the vast majority (I assume) is not like that. All ppl have a brain and most of them use it actually.

>^..^<

M-G (racism and discrimination is sth that doesn't belong in the 21st century. Not in any century, for that matter)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


Which proves my case. Thanks for the example.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]

I think the biggest hamper for Poland in this matter is the lack of documentation among Western historians. In other words, the number of Polish historians with different views and different opinions, no matter what they may be, that have published in English, is few. I admit it's growing, but still a small number. Let's face it, if you publish in Polish alone, your reach will be limited. Limited to the ppl who can read Polish. I for one would definitively be reading publications of them. But for now the only ones that published works on this theme are Gross and, what's her name. And those two are, according to you, grossly exhaggarating things at least. But yet they're the only sources I can read on the subject as I cannot read Polish. And I don't want to read Jewish sources only.

What I'm trying to say (just out of bed, sorry) is that Polish historians should try and stop their belly-button staring and try to have their works written/published in English. I think it would help Poland a lot of getting rid of the image of being an anti semitic bunch.

That is also the difference with Western historians: nearly every work of any Western historian, perhaps maybe the German ones - but to me that is not really an issue as I can read German, had their work either translated into English or wrote it in English. Therefore we can read any subject from all sides and all opinions about it, so we can form an opinion that comes closest to the truth.

Would you agree that a more internationalising of Polish history by Polish historians by means of publishing AND in Polish AND in English helps getting more widespread understanding and insight in any part of Polish history, not only with regards to the Jews?

I for one think it would.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


The WA (Weer Afdeling - Defending Dept) wore black uniforms. But it was also a political party and ppl could be member of it without having to wear a uniform. Those are the ones you've seen. Just like in any country before WW2 there were similar parties like the Nazi party, heck, even Britain (Sir Oswald Mosley, anyone), the US (silver shirts amongst others - they had a large portion of German immigrants, but the Silver shirts and the New York dept of them were literally beaten out of business by Meyer Lanski and other Jewish gangsters) and Ireland (the Blue Shirts - though very small and you have to hand it to the Irish, they were the only country in Europe in which some form of Nazi movement didn't get big in the years before the war). So it's not really surprising that the Swedes had their form too. But general modus is that these parties were small parts of the society who in the early 30's gained quite some following due to the successful rebuidling of Germany, hence the initial success of the Nazi movement. All of them were severely on the decline in the last two years of the 30's. The reason for this is simple: economically it was getting better in all of those countries and Nazism only has a chance when things go bad economically. Except in Germany, of course, where the Nazis had such an iron grip on society and there were no democratic elections anymore.


Like sb earlier on in this thread said pointing to the Dutch: the truth can be quite uncomfortable, how do you know that those other Martians helped? Were you there? Did you actually see them do it? Neither did Gross, but nobody really knows what happened anyway as you for sure don't want to believe eyewitnesses who have a shirt to wipe clean, their own, so naturally they will say they helped. Wouldn't be the first time.

Edit: couldn't find any English Wiki about the WA, but here is a link to the NSB (Nationaal Socialistische Beweging - National Socialist Movement)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Movement_in_the_Netherlands

As you can read here, they were quite on the decline, the years directly before WW2 and the invasion of NL.

And FYI: after the war these ppl were duly punished, some by death, others by imprisonment.

>^..^<

M-G (now, be a good boy and get me some nice red wine, grin)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


I always wonder what kinda sources some ppl use. Heck, the French resistance had a price on Petain's head; it's only due to the severe security and the protection by the German forces that it didn't happen. Of course, there were collaborators. Of course, there were in every occupied country. But most French hated the Vichy regime.


And you wonder why some police officers in NL helped the Nazis? For the very same reason.


There was a Nationalistic Socialist Movement in NL. However, they were sharply on the decline by 1940. They were the ones to give the Germans flowers. The normal Dutch didn't do that. Stop finding reasons trying to debunk sth that cannot be debunked. There were good elements and there were bad elements. Just like in any country. Oh no, that's not true, not in Poland as there were only good elements :)


Oh pls give me a break: Denmark was the only country in Europe that managed to save ALL their Jews by shipping them off to Sweden. There were only a couple of thousands, but nevertheless.

Only Norway was pretty anti-semitic, testified by this line in Norwegian law: "no Jew may enter the Kingdom of Norway".

For Sweden: Raul Wallenberg, anybody? He on his own saved about 10.000 Jewish lives, only to be arrested and left to rot in a Soviet cell after the war on suspicion of being a Western Spy.

How about diverting the attention back to the Jews in Poland? Hm? What would Jan Gross say about them?

>^..^<

M-G (oh, I forgot, Jan Gross is a dirty liar because he unmasks the truth about Poland and the Jews)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]

Actually, I think I know where it is now. Saint Lawrence Avenue is basically on the other side of Clontarf from where I lived. I remember kinda drunken occasions on Friday nights when me and the guys from work (which was then still at East Point) went for a couple of pints in that kip called Barcode, which was more of a dancing than a pub, but the pints were 3 Euro until 22:00 and then missing the last bus, therefore had to walk...Must be over a kilometer, which is long when you're drunk :)

I just used Google Maps and I remembered again, it was Kincora Court, a little sideway of Kincora Road, that's where I lived in Clontarf.

Thank you my friend. I am sure you read the pm I sent you, does this have any resemblence to what happened to you 18 years ago as you wrote?

Take care, my friend.

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


He's in a delirium tremens right now because he just had a for him very pleasant spooning-interaction with his black American sailor boyfriends. And one tends to see things not so clear when one is in a delirium tremens. :)

M-G (soon he goes back for more, like a junkie, he just can't get enough of their love, grin)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


I actually lived there for a year, in 2006 that was...Can't remember the name of the street, though, but it was not far from Clontarf Village in one of them red-brick houses, only one row away from the seaside. Lovely area of Dublin, I must say, and it was sad that I had to leave there, but the landlord decided to sell the house and all of us had to go.


Thank you, my friend. It's getting a little better every day and the doctor told me today that I can actually have a pint (albeit just one or two) next week! So, it's getting ahead!

May I ask you where exactly Toners is? As soon as I am up and going again, I would love to visit that pub, just to see :) And: let me know if you some time in the future plan to go to the Dirty Auld Town again, I would love to have a pint with you :)

And you're right: the Spire is one hideous thing - a shame that they wasted, what was it again? 4 or 40 million...On sth like that.

Edit: I found Toners, it's all the way down to Upper Baggott Street? Or are there more Toners? Couldn't find any more...So it must be the right one.


Which JewS? I only saw stuff written by one: Manfred Gerstenfeld, an Austrian Jew born in 1937, who was adopted by Dutch ppl shortly after the war, grew up in Amsterdam and paid by the Dutch state was able to study EVIRONMENTAL studies. In fact he doesn't have any sociologic insight nor does he have a grasp of political stuff. I've read more stuff from his hand and I dismiss it most of the time as just another ungrateful little bastard that had his education paid for by the Dutch, saw his life saved by the Dutch and owes nearly everything he has and is at the moment to the Dutch. Yeah, he is an ungrateful little bastard, considering what the Dutch have done for him.

Leah Visser is not a Jew. Leah is a non-Jewish Dutch who lives in Jerusalem and is connected to that institute. I remember her from early nineties, she was an hysterical little bytch that cried wolf of anti semitism or racism as soon as you as much looked at her.

In short, I have never liked this institute both work for as it focuses too much, way too much on incidents caused by a single depraved individual and take this as an example of how bad Dutch society is. But then again, this is in full adherence to your usual way of reasoning. So it doesn't surprise me that you come up with sources like that. But it's only one source and one opinion. If the Netherlands are rotten to the core, I am sure there are loads and loads of documents on Inet that will prove such a thing. Yet you and your evil helper come up with just ONE source. Hm.

We may have a Jewish PM after June 9th of this year. Would that be pssbl if the Dutch were so anti semitic? Don't think so.

>^..^<

M-G (like I said, your black boyfriends are waiting for you, go on, hurry to them for some good spooning)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]

That wasn't the point. Everybody in the Netherlands knows that there were (and still are)elements in Dutch society one should be deeply ashamed of. And we are the first to admit that. Unlike Sokidoki and his evil dwarfs, who not even don't admit that there was an aweful lot of anti semitism in PL, but he doesn't feel sorry about it and on the contrary, even defends it. And that is a different matter. And besides that, the ones who collaborated with the Nazis have been tried thoroughly with the death penalty temporarily being re-introduced since over 100 years after the war.

And another thing: nothing has been proven that we already know. So it's time for Sokidoki and his mentally challenged friends to go back into their cave where they can dwell over the greatness and glorious nature of PL. Oh, and he's managed to even make anti semitic remarks during this whole conversation, which goes to show that he is in fact a tiny little man who is actually homosexual, so I've learned, with a preference for black sailors of at least 6ft4 for a good night of spooning. Whatever tickles his fancy :)

Do you take Sokidoki and the henchmen so serious then?

>^..^<

M-G (tiens, Gerstenfeld is most ungrateful towards the country that has sheltered him and gave him the opportunity to become an environmental (!) professor - some knowledge he must have of political stuff)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


You're right, true, forgot that - I knew there was a distinct group living in Western Germany, but I was living in the assumption that they only became Ashkenazi after they merged with the Khazars, a Turkic ppl that was converted to Judaism. But hey, I'm descendent of Sefardic and as far as I know Sefardic didn't have that much love for the Ashkenazi. But hats off, it was sth I omitted where it should not have been. Mea culpa.


This goes to show that you're really not the smartest tool in the shed. Otherwise you would have known that it's just an expression. But of course you wouldn't know that as there are so many things you don't know. So far for the ocurrence of Sokidokie. Now back under your stone.


Actually the biggest group of Jews in NL were Hasidic Jews although the numbers were close between the Ashkenazi, Sefardic and Hasidic Jews.


This is spot on, my friend. Anti semitism is sometimes very covert and the seemingly most harmless remark can contain a lot of it.
You're certain you have no plans in the nearby future to come visit Dublin? How long haven't you been in the Dirty Auld Town? :) If it's a long time, I am sure you'd be surprised of all the changes it has gone through. This may sound strange coming from a Dutchman who lives here relatively short, but in the 6 years that I'm here, I've already seen quite a few changes. Though I have to say that I inherited my dad's eye for detail. Mentality wise things did change quite severely over the last five years. The Irish, always known for their welcoming character have adopted a form of racism that is kinda unnatural to them. I have to admit though that it's mainly young ppl who are guilty of that. I do understand it with the huge influx of migrants in the last decade, but still, I think it doesn't suit them well. Luckily not all young ones are like that and most older ppl are still very welcoming and just plain nice.

>^..^<

M-G (welcoming)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


The majority from the world's Jews are Azkenazi. They come from the East, through the Turkish peninsula, the Kaukasus and so on. Also, most of the descent from Kazhars and they lived in Russia. They were moved Westward and I guess they just stuck around in places they kinda liked, or were close to where they came from. Lots of them have move further West though.

Anti semitism by the way did not exist there before the Jews came, which makes sense. And I am sure at first there wasn't any or if any not that much. Later on it grew into a hostile form and indeed many Jews fled Westward.

It's only in the 14th Century that the Jews, many of them had already moved Westward to Germany, NL and other countries, that Casimir the Great invited them back into PL.

>^..^<

M-G (there's nothing mind boggling about that)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


Because there was no Polish government during the war, not even a puppet regime. Only a German one, Hans Frank, cs, and they didn't need any co-operation. Poland didn't exist during the war, so there was no need for a regime to co-operate, the Nazis did it themselves. As for France and the Netherlands, the Vichy-Regime was a puppet regime and widely hated amongst all the French; in NL there was the effective government of Seyss-Inquart, reporting directly to Hitler. Like I stated before, it wasn't the officials that gave up the Jews, the Germans simply had to go to the archives to check who was Jew and who was not and then go to the given address to pick them up as they were all decently registered throughout the years preceding the war. Yes, police helped, and they were widely hated for it. But Polish police also helped in picking up Jews. Blue police, anyone? We all know that the Dutch were no saints, but it's not by far as bad as you like to portray it. Many Jews were saved by going in hiding and Anne Frank may be betrayed by neighbours, they were saved for a long time by Dutch ppl too.

You don't seem to understand that you are not winning at all. You have nothing, absolutely nothing proved yet, only your inquenchable thirst to make PL look better than the rest of the world. It's a pity you don't know anything of Dutch history, otherwise you wouldn't be so persistent in your errors.


What exactly is in this article of (again) this same Jerusalem group that I haven't said in this thread? And it's funny how your "knowledge" always comes down to how glorious and immaculate PL is and that it's always the others that are the bad ones.

Come with some credible sources, not only one. This institute cries already wolf, like Stu said, when somebody is protesting the treatment of Palestinians by the Israelis.

M-G (tiens)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


Stop lying. You know darn well that Eastern Europe was far more anti semitic than the West has ever been or will be. Evidence of that would be that the Nazis took some precautions as to not to upset the natives too much in the West as anti semitism wasn't as deeply rooted as in the East. In the East they could just go ahead with killing squads as they knew most ppl over there didn't give a darn anyway.

>^..^<

M-G (too bad Sokidoki doesn't know when he has lost a discussion)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


Yeah, let's just do that.

>^..^<

M-G (increase in anti semitism is imo due to an increase of Arabic population in W-Europe)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


No matter what you think you may have, you haven't proven anything but one incident. You have proven that there are Arabs in NL that want to see the end of Israël. You have proven that Palestinians can have their say on Inet and that of course they won't be favourable towards Israeli politics. For the rest you haven't proven that the majority of the Dutch are racist and anti semite. But of course, that has never stopped generalizing porkers like you from taking isolated events as majority rule.


Not again! Is he dead?

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


I found it in the meantime. Wow, more anti semitism in the Netherlands and getting stronger every day...Based on one fragment of a discussion board in a Dutch newspaper. Face it, you generalizing nobody, Poland is way more anti semitic than the Netherlands ever were and will be, when even Bishops make anti semitic remarks...


That made me laugh. "We conclude this as a fully legitimate research centre based on one comment thread on one day in a Dutch newspaper website". Wonder what the same researchers would say if they would visit PF...Probably that the Holocaust is being practiced on a day to day basis in PL.


So it's pretty clear from which side the wind blows.

>^..^<

M-G (realises that life is very hard for Sokidoki without generalizations)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


Sure. You have any idea what the implications of such a remark are? It's not for nothing that he withdrew it after pressure. But of course, it's not that bad as some depraved (probably Arabic) individual who shouts sth in bad Dutch...


Nice of you to contribute and I want to thank you for your effort, but I don't think you get the point of the discussion. That is no problem, if you need help, just ask. I am sure sb will explain to you what it is about.

Found the quote. It's from the same link mentioned earlier, following a dissection of one single remarks board on volkskrant.nl. It's sad to take this as an example of raging anti semitism in the Netherlands. Heck, our pssbl future prime minister (Job Cohen) is Jewish. If we're such an anti semitic country, that for sure wouldn't be even a remote pssbility.

>^..^<

M-G 9tiens)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]

And I still haven't got the link to where you got that from. But I think you made that up yourself as usual, when you can't win a discussion.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


Lying again, are you? Any Dutch person here could tell you that it's very bad Dutch. I don't think you have a friend from the Netherlands. He may live there, but he is not Dutch, otherwise he would've told you that.

En als je het niet gelooft, kun je altijd nog m'n reet kussen, goed zo?


thenews.pl/international/artykul124305_holocaust-was-a-jewish-invention--says-top-polish-bishop.html

Hm, I would find a statement like that from a high ranking figure in Polish public life far more grave than what an isolated idiot screams on the internet.

>^..^<

M-G (100 per cent Dutch)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


It's very crippled Dutch. A native Dutch, if he could write well and be educated would never write it like that. Generalisations galore again with Sokidoki. I will correct the sentence for you as Google Translate didn't do the trick for you. The correct way of writing this sentence would be: "Hou je muil, vieze Jood/Joden. Stuur alle Joden naar de gaskamer!". It means, "Shut up you dirty Jew(s). Send all the Jews to the gaschamber." But I am sure that's not what you entered in Google translate.

Link pls to your source?

And apart from that, it seems, given the typical spelling errors in the sentence that it would have been again an Arab writing this. But if you're gonna use this as proof, I could copy plenty of remarks from this very forum who could "proof" that anti semitism is rampant in Poland and the US.


That is stated in the very first sentence of the Googled article.

There is nothing from you that proves that anti semitism is more rampant in NL or Western Europe than in Eastern Europe.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


Quote from your link:


So, are there 9 or are there 26? And besides, it's the Arabs again, not the Dutch natives. Plus, there are 4 million members which together have 1000's of groups. I would say that's not a big deal in that case.

>^..^<

M-G (poor Sokidoki, tries so hard, yet gets rebuked all the time)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]

expatica.com/nl/news/news_focus/Dutch-support-for-Israel-eroding_12039.html

By the way, I still haven't had that list of Dutch atrocities towards Jews.


Poles didn't do anything, right? Hm, Kielce, Bialistock, Jedwabne...Have a look:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_violence_in_Poland,_1944%E2%80%931946

Heck, even your own Historians say so. But of course, Jan Gross is a dirty liar, eh?

>^..^<

M-G (did the Sokidoki way: just search on Google)