Poland, Ukraine population loss in 20-th century

How large impact, do you think, the population loss that Poland and Ukraine experienced in 20-th century had on the development of this countries? First of all, I mean looses in WWI, Russian Citizenship War, Russian-Polish War of 1920, Holodomor in Ukraine, WWII and also numerous immigration out of these countries? Can we tell that both countries lost many of its best people?

Yes, best people from the elites were purposefully persecuted by occupants and often perished, with disastrous effects for the country. I see it even today - intelligent people who are able to think independently are the minority in Poland.

And how do you think Poles and Ukrainians would live now if not all these population looses?

I don`t know about Ukraine but I believe Poland would have developed more dynamically than it has so far. And instead of copying technologies from other countries, we would invent more of our own.

It's quite remarkable to see how many "intelligent" people actually just repeat what politicians say.

An interesting question would be to ask what would Poland look like today if WW2 didn't happen? I've said it before, but I reckon civil war would have broken out by the 1950's at the latest, and there would possibly be a couple of decades of political instability before some sort of power-sharing agreement was put into place with the three largest nationalities having mandatory representation in government.

Do you think Russian Revolution would take place in 1917 if there would be no WWI?

Yes, I think so. The Romanovs were weak regardless of WW1, and with people such as Dostoevsky having great influence over the Russian people, I think it was a matter of time. The only thing is that I'm not sure the Bolsheviks win, or even rise without WW1.

@delphiandomine
Why do you think there would have been a civil war?

Because he believes very strongly that multiculturalism is a very good idea that actually works.

Yes, the downfall of an absolute monarchy in Russia was rather inevitable, but Bolsheviks in power and citizenship war in Russia is a different thing.

Is it really always bad idea? Do you think, for example, that representatives of different ethnic European cultures cannot live together and cooperate efficiently? For example Poles, Germans, Ukrainians, Italians, Greeks?

Largely because of the way that Poland was heading in the late 1930's. Pilsudski was dead, and the Składkowski.government was turning more and more hostile towards minorities. You had educated Poles demanding (and getting) restrictions against Jews, you had Ukrainian schools/groups/organisations getting closed down, and most of all, you had personality cults building up around people in the government. There were also reasons for neighbouring countries to fuel conflict in Poland, and I think it would all have ended up in conflict. The Polish majority would never have understood life in mixed areas, and I think things would have just exploded at some point.

@Vlad1234
When Germanys population surpassed that of France she started to throw her weight around before that it was France.So population is one huge component in both defending and going on the offensive.Poland should have a population that takes into consideration Germany on the west and Russia on the east.In the past and even today it's population is to small and needs a baby boom.

Do you think government payments can change that completely? How much government needs to pay for the second, the third, etc. child?.. Yes, if situation isn't going to change our nations, cultures, languages going to disappear irreversibly.

It's no going to make a dent. For reference, a baby from conception till 18 is a quarter million buck undertaking here. That amount buys a lot of BMW's and vacations in Aspen so why ruin that with kids.

Plus, the wife is probably the bread winner and guys, even after the transition, are still not capable of making babies. Big problem and not going away any time soon.

Only a major war can produce another baby boom.

Are you a Prophet? or what?

Dein Wort in Gottes Ohr, Ryszard. :)

Exactly.

WW3 can definitely produce another baby boom, Ryszard. It can also restore some good old traditional morals, perseverance and survival skills. Why are you so scared sh*tless of it then? You're over 80 so I don't believe that it is you holding so desperately to the pathetic remaining shards of life, so why??? I don't get it.

You will get it when you turn 80. If you will be lucky to live that long...

If you call it "luck". If you will be lucky you will die young.

Ukraine has world's worst demographics - EU Observer
There are about three times as many deaths as there are births in the country, data shows

Ukraine is experiencing the world's worst demographic crisis as the military conflict, mass migration and falling birth rates drive its population to historic lows, EUobserver has reported.

Did I tell you, dear Ukraine, not to fvck with Russia? You ignored me and now you are a dead man walking.

Before you finally die, don't forget to thank Poland for it. Hurry up as their High Moral Ground is getting empty quickly...I guess the festivities are over...

War is not a time for procreation. Birth rates will increase after winning the war with russia.