PRUSSIA - Former Vassal of Poland later occupant | Nowadays Germany?

... a Danziger and a Breslauer will always get on well ;)


Exactly. Aggression and territorial acquisitions are overrated - it's better to have friends everywhere and feel at home wherever you go, but I'm afraid we are losing our russian readers here, we might as well be talking in Arabic :)
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When the r*SSian 'federation' collapses or is dismantled following Ukraine's victory, how best to split Konigsberg/Królewiec/ Karaliaučius?

Maybe 50-50 between Poland and Lithaunia?
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....you know Jon, english border-drawing (or better said the mess they are made of it) is the reason for lotsa unrest and war, even today....you should refrain from it! ;)
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It does need doing, and there are only three options Poland, Lithuania, or Poland and Lithuania splitting it between them. I t certainly can't remain ndernthe r*SSian yoke


You mean British, and it's worth mentioning that it was your nation's 'border drawing' that cause the mess regarding Krolewiec in the first place

You should refrain from it.
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pffffft :)
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German attempts to 'redraw borders' (or, rather, expand their own) led to two of the biggest wars the planet has ever seen, with millions dead.

I pray we never again see Germany attempting to 'draw borders', or this time the anglosphere might have to permanently occupy or dismantle the country for good.
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Better if it stays a Russian mainly populated enclave that lives well among Poles and Lithuanians. Then Russians know that despite bad relations/conflicts, it does not have to start or instigate anything serious towards Lithuania or Poland. Removing that option would make it less safe, not safer for Poland or Lithuania!
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Curious....who did draw the borders in Europe wildly new after WWI (decisions which made some revisionist politician in Germany so enormously popular)? Hmmm.....lemme think....but I am fairly sure it wasn't Germany!

And not only in Europe!

bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-25299553
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Play stupid games, win stupid prizes (as the Japanese also learned via their two highly instructive atomic lessons when they foolishly joined Germany's next record-breaking war on the wrong side).

There are arguments to be made that the winners - particularly the US, with the pressure it put on Britain and France to pay back war debts, which they then passed on to Germany - contributed to the rise of Hitler, but at the end of the day there's nobody to blame but Germany for the two world wars it started. So, a German really can't say anything to me at all about 'drawing borders'. And if you didn't want borders to be redrawn after WW1, you shouldn't have started WW1. Simple stuff.
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Avoid nationalist politicians. They are not on humanity's side.

The silly moustache and the ranting about minorities should have been a clue.


Woodrow Wilson was to blame for a lot. He vetoed the plan to put the Kaiser's grandson on the throne. Hat would have been the best option.

Better still, listen to Liebnecht and Luxembourg rather than killing them.

Anyway, Konigsberg isn't coming back except on Woody Allen's death certificate so what do we do?

Poland, Lithuania or both.
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Why not?

So....you are saying as long the border drawing gets through it is allowed? Might is right? Is that the lesson for me as a German?

But you are totally correct in a way....next time we will look for more and better allies....allies who help us financially and with weapons and who do the fighting for us too...and THEN you can watch us border drawing!!! :)


Thing is, without such old grievances like stemming from foreign totally insensitive border drawings, such revisionists/nationalists wouldn't stand a chance!


Maybe today....back then that was en vogue....they all did it....the US army even had still segregated soldiers as they came upon european land.
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Former Prussia is currently claimed by Poland and Russia!
Germany lost out decades ago😡
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Hard to know what 'grievance' the losers of a war might have that would differ from the grievances of those they invaded.


There was a riot in a cinema in Norwich. Some white trash objected to black soldiers being there and the locals gave them a kicking. The best was in a town in Lancashire where the local Yank commander tried to make locals segregate pubs as far as their soil diets were concerned. They did as well. All became "Black Only".

As an elder man said when asked by a newspaper what he thought of the Americans, "they're great chaps; just a shame about the white ones they brought with them".

About Krolewiec, what would you do?

It can't remain Orc and needs to go to one neighbour or both.
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Old grievances, like old grudges, never die...the simply lie dormant until roused.
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....asking the people living there what they want?

I come to think of a similiar problem with northern Ireland....I doubt just handed over to Poland or Lithuania would pacify this region, quite the contrary. Its rather seeding the next permanent european problem!

But there won't be a perfect solution....I always liked the 99 years - Hongkong - agreement! The Hongkongians (?:) had lotsa time to prepare and as they became Chinese again there was not that much fight and resistance...

....just an idea!
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ETA finally cut the crap and stopped their nonsense. These other terrorist groups can take a leaf from their book.


Many of those in Northern Ireland want to be part of Britain. It's a more complex situation than you're painting it to be. See the Basque comparison above for one more suitable.
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That are extremely complex situations, even harder to grasp from the outside by a foreigner....thats why such a crude border drawn across and through cultural, linguistical, historical, religious and especially ethnic settlements rarely ended well and peacefully!

Only total ethnic cleansing has proven to be "working" long term....I dunno if thats something Jon has in mind with this region.
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Most are r*SSians who were moved there. t*SSians so what they're told


They're all from there and not citizens of a 'federation' to be split up.


Which of course almost anyone alive is regarding Krolewiec.


That may be for the best, although there are problems with legality. Many of the orcs willl evacuate anyway when the free world's troops arrive to demilitarise.
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You skipped a few history lessons, didn't you? The Germans did not start WW1, they were only blamed afterwards. Mostly by the French who wanted revenge for the Franco-Prussian war they lost.


LOL. Does Russia have a claim on Poland as a whole then? Don't forget who gave you Pomerania, Silesia and parts of East Prussia.
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Any time crap about legality or rules based order from the free or democratic world just bring up the terrorist state supported and funded by the British. The creation of the aberration that is the north of Ireland was a gerrymander done under the threat of treasonous violence.
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They did. They invaded Belgium. And hoped nobody would help them. Like Putler and r*SSia now.


No wonder given some of the atrocities in that war.
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Who, external. Guess I forgot, but don't tell me Poland!!

B.B. might have something to say about that.
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Nah....there isn't much to say about that from the german side:


It's okay that way....
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Oh, there were still occasional nut jobs in the '90's in Berlin who spoke about "Preussens Gloria", but that was decades ago.
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.....but look what I found googling (but I doubt they have that many reader!)

They actually have that Königsberg-Problem mentioned (the only german media as far as I know):

paz.de/artikel/krisenszenarien-um-koenigsberg-a17773.html
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There remains the unpredictable AfD.
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And how!
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Do you visit Wroclaw?
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Aka Breslau😅
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...nope....
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