CHERDIA - What or where could it be?!

I have posted here before with such kind replies from wonderful people even though my posts are geared more to Russia and Ukraine this site seems to provide the more feedback so I am hoping I can try again and some people can speculate this with me!

My great grandfather was born in 1888 in Russia or Ukraine I have not been able to narrow it down. The potentially accurate records I have are naturalization and permit to leave Canada. The birth place is listed exactly as Cherdia, Podolsk, Russia. I am somewhat familiar with Podolsk and can find its existence and history, but as for Cherdia.. NOTHING! on the permit to leave Canada it looks to be spelt as Chirdir or Chisdir? Nothing remotely close to it appears anywhere I search and all I am trying to do is narrow down his place of birth and when he came to Canada exactly. His name in Canada is Charles Sanchuk but I have also seen Kerel Savchuk, other feedback speculations Sawchuk/sawczuk. Religion was Russian Orthodox.

So where on earth is Cherdia?? Any ideas or speculation that may help me figure this out?

Thanks kindly

Podolsk is a city, so I don't know what Cherdia would be... Some village in the administrative area of Podolsk that later became part of the city maybe? No idea...


The letter "d" when written in the handwritten Cyrillic script looks like Latin "g". So maybe someone made a mistake when translating from Russian and it's "Cherga"?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherga

That's a wild guess though...

Ah, sorry, no, that would be the other way around... If it was Cherda then it could be mistakenly written down as Cherga in Latin alphabet... No idea then...

I don't think Podolsk the city is meant here. It's listed second, after Cherdia, so to me it indicates that it refers to the Podolsk Governorate (Подольская Губерния). The territory of the former Podolsk Governorate bordered Austria-Hungary in the West and is entirely inside modern Ukraine, while Podolsk the city is outside Moscow. So, these are very different places. It being placed in Russia in the documents is not relevant since Ukraine did not yet exist. If I remember correctly, this poster's family was Ukrainian in origin, so it would make much more sense for them to be from this state, rather than the city near Moscow.

You could try going through Russian archival data to find where in the Podolsk Governorate Cherdia was located. It's clear to me that it was a small place, likely a village, and not a city because no large settlements under that name appear in the Wikipedia entry for the Podolsk Governorate. My hunch would be that the village no longer exists. Thousands of villages in the Western USSR disappeared during WW2, and especially in this area. The Podolsk Governorate had a large Jewish population (~15% according to Wiki), so if your family is Jewish in origin or came from a predominantly Jewish village, then it's doubly likely that it no longer exists and has been lost to history.

Ah, I didn't know that... Yes, considering Pleuvoir's family history this makes much more sense!

I can't thank all of you so far for the feedback I was at a loss. It's put exactly as Cherdia Podolsk Russia. So trying not to sound too silly here what should I be searching for? Any links or resources I can refer to that may help along the way? I'm on no sleep due to other reasons so any help in the easiest of ways is super appreciated! And Paulina, thank you to the moon and back your the first after months of asking and posting everywhere who's given me more to go on!!! THANK YOU EVERYONE!!! I'll keep you posted!

@Pleuvoir

You probably will have to install a Russian keyboard on your pc, and start using Google Translate on webpages heavily. As workaround for keyboard since it will be hard to use without the stickers, you can use a website like translit.cc. It will transliterate whatever you write in Latin into Cyrillic.

Here's a few Cyrillic terms you can copy/paste in your searches and not worry about the spelling:

Подольская Губерния - Podolsk Governorate
Деревня - village
Уезд - sort of like county. If Governorate is equivalent to a U.S. State or Canadian Province, then Uezd is a lower level administrative division like a county.

Архив - archive
Перепись 1897 года - 1897 Census

Finally, here's a few attempts of mine at guessing what a potentially correct spelling for Cherdia is:

Чердиа
Чердя
Чердь
Черяда

PS. Governorates and Uezds don't exist in Russia since the October Revolution, so the results you get when searching these terms should be relatively specific to the time period you need without getting a lot of other clutter.

Well that should be an enjoyable adventure as long as it leads me to the right place! I'm over the moon to have a little more knowledge and direction! Thank you for the helpful tips!

@Pleuvoir

Не за что.

Just another little tip. If you have no idea how to even begin spelling a Russian word you'd like to search, try finding its English Wikipedia article first. Then on the left side tab switch the language to Russian and copy over the articles Russian title for your searches. Russian Wikipedia is among the biggest, and certainly more complete on Russian subjects than the English version. Thus, I think you will always be able to find that link.

For sure thanks! I've just started exploring and so far no Cherdia but I'm optimistic this new info will help! I just wish I had some links or more direction of what and where to look!

I wish I knew what I was missing, Cherdia must be spelt wrong I hope I can narrow this down soon and if anyone can help any further I'd appreciate it!

Can someone tell me what the polish translation of Cherdia is?

@Pleuvoir, in Polish it would be written as "Czerdia".

Here is a link to an electronic version of a book published in 1893, listing all settlements in the Podolsk Governorate:

elib.shpl.ru/ru/nodes/25851-guldman-v-k-naselennye-mesta-podolskoy-gubernii-alfavitnyy-perechen-naselennyh-punktov-gubernii-s-ukazaniem-nekotoryh-spravochnyh-o-nih-svedeniy-kamenets-podolskiy-1893

Also, you could look at maps and try to find it. In general, this will be a big task on account of the fact that the Podolsk Governorate was huge (today it is spread across multiple oblasts of Ukraine), and very densely populated (second only to Moscow region). Even in the 1890s there were 3 million people living in the area, and today it's probably closer to 15 million people living in the same territory. There are probably hundreds of villages in that area.

Here's one map, unfortunately the names are written in Russian. Got it from the Russian language Wikipedia page where you can find it in original size. I gave a quick scan and did not see a Cherdia.

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Thank you thank you! I'll check that out! I'm the meantime I was over speculating I guess you could say as mentioned Ukraine didn't exist yet, now I'll try to not sound too silly and make the most sense possible. The closest to the village name I could find was zherdia which I have no idea in anyway could've been translated as Cherdia at any point. Currently located in ukraine but going through old Canadian immigration records with people born the same of close to the same year as my great grandfather, have listed their birthplace as podolsk Zherdia. Some followed by Kamenetz or mention of Lianskorun especially with the surname Savchun. Now I maybe way off but wanted to share to see if any possibly link or connection that anyone can explain. Thanks!

@Pleuvoir

Zherdia is actually quite plausible as origin for Cherdia. Especially since its Polish spelling might have contained the letter Z as Czerdia. Kamenets was the state capital of the entire P.G. So people from smaller villages likely received their documents there.

I think this is relevant, especially if there is one in the Podolsk Governorate in those years when he emigrated.

Thanks for the feedback! Just trying to explore every possibility, he was born 1888 and just wanted to be sure my speculation wasn't too far fetched. So it's either a village that is no longer existent, although through the little effort I've made so far trying to read that document so far I'm not seeing anything even similar to Cherdia, but I'll continue to try and translate it as well as explore Zherdia. Should anyone have any other feedback or speculation please share!