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Poland's economic future?


Monitor 13 | 1810  
21 Jan 2014 /  #31
Calling Poland underdeveloped country tells a lot about your mentality .

No, it says about your idealistic view of Poland. The country is still called "Developing Country"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_country

In recent years following countries moved from Developing to Advanced economies group:

Czech Republic (before 2009)
Slovakia (before 2009)
Estonia (before 2011)
San Marino (before 2012)

Poland is still not there, not to mention where it was 20 years ago.
poland_  
21 Jan 2014 /  #32
Calling Poland underdeveloped country tells a lot about your mentality

Poland is a developing country, if you look at the road network and infrastructure this would give one example of developing.
monia 3 | 212  
21 Jan 2014 /  #33
No, it says about your idealistic view of Poland. The country is still called "Developing Country"

Your comment tells more about the level of your knowledge or the lack of it in this subject .

The term developed country is used to describe countries that have a high level of development according to some criteria. Economic criteria have tended to dominate discussions. One such criterion is income per capita; countries with high gross domestic product (GDP) per capita would thus be described as developed countries. Another economic criterion is industrialization; countries in which the tertiary and quaternary sectors of industry dominate would thus be described as developed. More recently another measure, the Human Development Index (HDI), which combines an economic measure, national income, with other measures, indices for life expectancy and education has become prominent.

I don`t care what your opinion is . What matters is that Poland is regarded as highly developed country by trade institutions .

trademap.org/stDevelopedCountries.aspx

Poland is on the 39-th place in HDI ( the factor taken as a main determinant of developement ).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

We can`t compare with Estonia which is like half of Warsaw , if we compared only Warsaw we would be in the first 20 .

Because of your opinion I regard you as a person with hidden agenda .
Harry  
21 Jan 2014 /  #34
Who to believe: monia or the IMF? I wonder which of them might know more about economics. And which might be better at taking an impartial look at Poland.
InWroclaw 89 | 1910  
21 Jan 2014 /  #35
What matters is that Poland is regarded as highly developed country by trade institutions .

The fees accountants like to charge in Wrocław are very developed, I can tell you that. One of them invited me to her office to explain why the fee would be so high. I expect that when I got there, she'd point to her 2013 BMW 4x4 car keys.

Are you an accountant, by the way? They seem to believe the hype that suits them, frankly.
Monitor 13 | 1810  
21 Jan 2014 /  #36
Poland is on the 39-th place in HDI ( the factor taken as a main determinant of development ).

But we talked about economy development, not human development. The title is "Poland's economic future?". And I hope that in next years Poland will join club of Advanced Economies. We were discussing reasons of Poland avoiding economic crisis which started in 2008. It was 6 years ago. Then Poland economy was substantially lower by GDP than now. And as people here mention, how can you call Poland "highly developed country", when it doesn't have consistent fast road network. Something what many western countries had over half a century ago.

And even if you call Poland developed economy, what matters is GDP per capita. And then in 2008 it was lower than half of German level (even PPP). It means that comparing to Germany, Poland was underdeveloped and still can copy a lot to gain the same level. I think, that you haven't read my link about convergence. It basically says that less productive economies can grow fast, by copying technology from more advanced economies, while leading economies cannot do that so they grow slower on average. No magic here.
monia 3 | 212  
21 Jan 2014 /  #37
the road network and infrastructure this would give one example of developing.

Haha , do you think it has nothing to do with communism ? Do you think that only roads matter so much ? You are so bigoted that I have no intention to argue with you I just give you facts , but it doeans`t influence your mind . It is simply hilarious .

You simply can`t come to terms with the stagnation in your original countries and want to downgrade achievements of Poland .

How did you contribute to this thread ?

What I have observed so far is that most of you exemplify just usual moaning ,typical for immigrants who can`t become successful in a host country .

But we talked about economy development, not human development.

HDI is the key factor to determine developement these days , read with understanding all definitions I have given you in my post . It is amazing how some of you can`t comprehend simple informations .
Harry  
21 Jan 2014 /  #38
" HDI is the key factor to determine developement these days"
ROFL! According to HDI, the average Russian was better off under communism than capitalism. Although I suppose some people in Poland were better off under communism too, eh monia?
TheOther 6 | 3690  
21 Jan 2014 /  #39
You simply can`t come to terms with the stagnation in your original countries and want to downgrade achievements of Poland .

You are showing the symptoms of a stereotypical Polish meathead (or PolAm, I can't remember): unable to admit that Poland needed a lot of outside help to reach the current level of development. The country would still be an ex communist dump without foreign investment, EU funds and the ability to export to the common market without having to pay massive import duties. Add to that the fact that Poland was able to "export" a lot of its potential unemployment to the UK and other western countries, and you will have a few of the reasons why Poland made such a big progress.

Poland can really be proud of what it has achieved so far, but claiming that it was only through good education and hard work without any help from others is just plain nonsense.

HDI is the key factor to determine developement these days

Take the GDP instead: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29
jon357 73 | 22638  
21 Jan 2014 /  #40
In terms of the length of motorways and expressways in 2016, and later in 2017, Poland will jump over UK

That doesn't either ring true or take into account the quality of such roads.
TheOther 6 | 3690  
21 Jan 2014 /  #41
GDP nominal is not an appropriate tool , because it does not eliminate exchange rate

That's why the USA for example uses GDP as its primary measure of total economic activity, right? Of course there are adjustments to the nominal GDP necessary which take certain factors into account. I thought that was clear ... silly me ... :)

Germany would be in the same dump along with the rest of Europe if it was not with the help of American funds flowing in the 50-ies .

The Marshall Plan funding ended in 1952 and the dismantling of the German industry continued until after 1949.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan#German_level_of_industry_restrictions
Ironside 50 | 12338  
21 Jan 2014 /  #42
unable to admit that Poland needed a lot of outside help to reach the current level of development.

No, you cannot get into your skull that it never was so. That is a typical hype by some types who don't know their ass from their elbow.

an ex communist dump without foreign investment,

BS - foreign investments are not decisive in development of a country. As for communists economy it was focused on producing weaponry and less flexible without that much of diversification but wasn't that bad as it has been propagated. Western economy is being ruled and ruined by banks, so great economy is in shambles, the Bretton Woods agreement helped to win with commie economy but after its fail is eating up their own like a deadly virus.
monia 3 | 212  
21 Jan 2014 /  #43
Highways in Poland are wonderful ,superb quality and most modern in Europe .







the newest Salomea - Aleje Jerozolimskie multilevel junction.
TheOther 6 | 3690  
21 Jan 2014 /  #44
that it never was so

Look, another Polish meathead... :)
jon357 73 | 22638  
21 Jan 2014 /  #45
Highways in Poland are wonderful ,superb quality and most modern in Europe .

Maybe the ones in the photos you've carefully chosen. The vast majority are sadly lacking and in many cases dangerous. The number of road deaths per thousand (a statistic that even the government here would find hard to falsify) is a tragic reminder of this.
Ironside 50 | 12338  
21 Jan 2014 /  #46
Highways in Poland are wonderful ,superb quality and most modern in Europe .

Eh? Stop lying here, it is not so. There few and between modern and high quality roads in Poland. On the top of it cost for building them are one of the highest in the world/ funnily.
monia 3 | 212  
21 Jan 2014 /  #47
Eh? Stop lying here, it is not so.

Who`s lying ? About what .

Maybe the ones in the photos you've carefully chosen. The vast majority are sadly lacking and in many cases dangerous.

I did not choose anything on purpose , cant you admit that you are simply jealous .I can point out dangerous roads in every country .
Whats wrong with you people . The highway system is most modern as it has been built most recently . Where are those bad highways ?
jon357 73 | 22638  
21 Jan 2014 /  #48
cant you admit that you are simply jealous .I can point out dangerous roads in every country .

Jealous of what? The highest per capita road deaths in Europe?

Where are those bad highways ?

Pretty well everywhere.
Jardinero 1 | 383  
21 Jan 2014 /  #49
The highest per capita road deaths in Europe?

Not any longer - PL now ranks "only" 3rd worst. See latest data for 2012:
europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-13-236_en.htm

There is obviously still a long way to go, but at least the trend looks promising: a 15% reduction in 2011-12 v. 9% for all of EU.

And just to keep things in perspective, as bad as it is, not many people realise that those numbers are still below US levels:
oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/factbook-2013-en/06/02/03/rddeath_g1.html?contentType=&itemId=/content/chapter/factbook-2013-50-en&containerItemId=/content/serial/18147364&accessItemIds=&mimeType=text/html
poland_  
21 Jan 2014 /  #50
Haha , do you think it has nothing to do with communism ? Do you think that only roads matter so much ?

Communism is pretty much irrelevant, according to your posts you consider Poland's a developed country, many here are making the point Poland is still developing which is not a negative slant, its factual according to new EU framework Poland will be given 105.8 billion euro of which 72.9 billion would be earmarked for implementation of the cohesion policy, and 28.5 billion for the agricultural policy. This means that in the years to come Poland will be the largest beneficiary of the EU cohesion policy funds among all Member States. Although the EU budget for 2014-2020 is generally smaller than the previous one, Poland will receive almost 4 billion euro more than in the previous financial framework 2007-2013.Under the new financial framework, projects eligible for aid will have to deal with the areas most important for the country's development.

You simply can`t come to terms with the stagnation in your original countries and want to downgrade achievements of Poland

We are not comparing like for like and the EU seems to agree otherwise they would not have granted a further 105.8 billion Euros of funding for further development, please remember Monia, the money comes from taxpayers of more developed EU member countries.

What I have observed so far is that most of you exemplify just usual moaning ,typical for immigrants who can`t become successful in a host country

Don't bite the hand which feeds, foreign FDI is responsible for a size-able amount of Poland's post communist development and remodernisation works.
Two million people fleeing the country since 2004 is not a reflection of a super performing economy, there is still much work to be done in Poland to bring the infrastructure, road, rail and communication up to a standard expected in 2014.

Highways in Poland are wonderful ,superb quality and most modern in Europe

Of course they are new they have just been built only because of the support of EU funds.
monia 3 | 212  
22 Jan 2014 /  #51
This means that in the years to come Poland will be the largest beneficiary of the EU cohesion policy funds among all Member States.

You know thar it is not a big deal . Per capita it is nothing , big media cry .

We have lost significant part of our industry thanks to regulations from EU . Now EU can not commpensate what was lost, even 10 times more would not be enough . Roads are getting better , but it is not a great sign in our developement . There are other factors .

Most of you don`t know how Poland looks like . You just repeat cliches heard in your British media , all biased and distorted . I regard your country as a place of badly educated , doped youth and drunk adults , drinking vodka and beer every weekend in excessive amounts , so don`t think that you are superior to Poles and don`t expect us to believe in bollocks you are trying to smuggle in some theory of developed England . You were never developed anyways . During WWII you would die from hunger if it was not American help. Communism degraded Poland very much . But you know what - it mostly downgraded people`s minds and undermined confidence in people`s own strength, but not all of them are like that . There are many people like me , confident and ambitious . This is what Poland is all about these days .
poland_  
22 Jan 2014 /  #52
Most of you don`t know how Poland looks like

So can you accept ELŻBIETA BIEŃKOWSKA, Poland's minister for regional development, manages the biggest allocation of European Union funding sent to any single member state. It is partly thanks to these funds that Poland's economy has been a relative star performer in Europe. The economy is also helped by convergence with neighbouring Germany, a large internal market, risk-averse banks, and the free-floating złoty.

economist/blogs/easternapproaches/2012/12/poland-and-eu
Ironside 50 | 12338  
22 Jan 2014 /  #53
Don't bite the hand which feeds,

Just hack it off! I don't think that Poland involvement in the EU is a good thing from political, economical or any other point of view.

Who`s lying ? About what .

You are lying about the great highway system in Poland.
poland_  
22 Jan 2014 /  #54
Just hack it off! I don't think that Poland involvement in the EU is a good thing from political, economical or any other point of view.

I understand some people may consider involvement in the EU and regulation may have had some negative effects and a large price to Polish society, what is the other option outside of the EU, to go the same way as the Ukraine being separated by Russia and EU meddling.

There are many people like me , confident and ambitious . This is what Poland is all about these days .

No one is disputing that there are confident and ambitious people in Poland, some of the smartest people I have had the pleasure of working with are Polish, never the less, dwelling in past history is not a positive attitude for forward momentum.
Ironside 50 | 12338  
22 Jan 2014 /  #55
what is the other option outside of the EU, to go the same way as the Ukraine being separated by Russia and EU meddling.

If a group of like-minded countries would like to separate from the EU to form their own organization that would be a good way for Poland to go.
Harry  
22 Jan 2014 /  #56
The highway system is most modern as it has been built most recently . Where are those bad highways ?

Off the top of my head (and showing where I drive), bad highways are:
south-east of Warsaw (the road to Lublin is virtually all single lane, as it is on to Zamosc);
east of Warsaw (the road towards Brest is virtually all single lane);
north of Warsaw (the road to Olsztyn is nearly all single lane);
north-west of Warsaw (the road to Gdansk is nearly all single lane);
shall I go on?
Monitor 13 | 1810  
22 Jan 2014 /  #57
shall I go on?

No sense to discus with her. She knows all better and who disagree has hidden "agenda" :)
monia 3 | 212  
22 Jan 2014 /  #58
These roads are not highways . Highways in Poland are not toll free. So , when you enter the toll booth it means you ener the highway . Othervise it is just a regular road or a highway under construction where traffic is allowed . Also some sections of the roads are already constructed as highways but because they are not finished yet according to the plan they can`t be called highways or toll can`t be collected .

No sense to discus with her.

Why , I always present facts which are valuable .

That's why the USA for example uses GDP as its primary measure of total economic activity, right?

The problem with nominal GDP counted in dollars is that it will never remove inequality caused by different purchasing powers of currencies to dollars .

It is partly thanks to these funds that Poland's economy has been a relative star performer in Europe.

The EU Commission claims that cohesion policy is good for new member states among them Poland , but also for the older members .For every euro spent on cohesion policy in Poland, the EU-15 countries received a return of 36 eurocents in the form of additional exports of goods and services. For Germany, the return is 72 eurocents as a result of "additional export contracts", therefore all parties benefit from the policy.

That`s my input for today`s discussion .
jon357 73 | 22638  
22 Jan 2014 /  #59
These roads are not highways . Highways in Poland are not toll free.

That's playing with the definition to try and excuse your lying.

Most people here speak English as their first language. We know what a highway is.
poland_  
22 Jan 2014 /  #60
For every euro spent on cohesion policy in Poland, the EU-15 countries received a return of 36 eurocents in the form of additional exports of goods

The above figure is not supporting EU benefits for Poland, based on these figures any normal business would seek chapter 11...

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