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Polls for Poles in the UK


Daisy  3 | 1211  
26 Oct 2007 /  #121
I truely feel from your original post, you objected largely to there being a GB cost to this, now you've conceeded there is not and merely have you 'back up' now

Agreed.. Torny just doesn't like being wrong....it's just become argument for arguments sake :(
OP tornado2007  11 | 2270  
26 Oct 2007 /  #122
It's already been established that Poland and not UK paid for this...

i know this my dear, i have already said that :)

no Anglo-Saxon was harmed in the process.

lol i like the humour :) but really thats it, what you have just said Polish polish polish, where in the UK no UK interaction at all like a separate colony all together we need to live side by side or nothing at all. I don't think pockets of nationalities is a good idea thats all.

But then you say they should use a postal vote...I'm surprised you don't object to them using Her Majesty's Royal Mail boxes, the contents of which are emptied, transported and sorted by Her Majesty's Royal Mail employees...or perhaps you do object them using a Royal Mail postal service...Perhaps the Poles should supply their own post boxes..or better still ballot boxes.

of course i don't mind, there paying for the postage stamp so they deserve to get the service like anybody else does. i just don't think any nationality should have an organised place for voting unless its UK referendums or voting time, thats about the size of it.

will the apply to british citizens abroad so? Unless you are in britian you cannot vote in a british election unless you are in britian?

why the hell not, and you can vote, postal and through embassy's

What about the armed services abroad? what about the GB citizens who happen to be working in Dubai or warsaw? By your merits, your saying you wont allow the british government to organise, pay and allow GB citizens overseas (ie in other countries) the ability to vote? Because that is in effect what you are saying about the Polish govt have done in the UK (and in many other places.

thats why we have post, they can send a vote like they can send a letter to their families its not that difficult and my father has done it himself :)

newsflash - this kind of thing was going on long before EU btw.

NEWSFLASH: the EU has made this type of thing even worse and will no doubt encourage the right of any national to do most things in a foreign land.

the makeup of the GB population is more varied than white british male and has connections to many countries around the world.

stop trying to make out that i think every British person is 'WHITE' because i don't think that. Your just pointing at the 'race' issue again which as you very well know i have no problem with.

these people are british and should they go abroad are entitled to vote in british elections abroad. the GB govt organises, pays and allows this by the grace of international law - the converse is. they allow other nations to organise, pay and allow other nations to do the same.

you see that term again, international law, it crops up everywhere. Good for them wow they can vote but i don't see why they can't just post their votes or do it through the British Embassy or what ever embassy of the country they are from.

there is no cost to the uk tax payer
there is no laws imposed on the gb citizen as a result of such election (as there is none when a GB citizen does the very same abroad)
it is not an EU law, it is an international law, that PREDATES EU.

EU or International law its all the same, its not British, on British land it should be BRITISH law only.

I truely feel from your original post, you objected largely to there being a GB cost to this, now you've conceeded there is not and merely have you 'back up' now

AS i dont think you would want the GB citizens right to vote abraod removed either.

how about the fact i had more than one point and it wasn't just about the money. If you think i'm arguing or debating for no reason then hay thats your opinion.

Torn, unfortunately you don't let me change my mind about you. I don't like EU (maybe not totally but in current version this is s*hit no doubt) but this has nothing to do with EU or any political correctness, that's not any "make love not war" kind of stuff, that's simply one of the most basic things. If your government tried to interrupt in any way, you would make yourself an ass of the world and suffer huge loses both politically and economically.

Point taken mate, it was also well constructed. To be honest if we said 'no' you can't have public ballet boxes instead you have to vote by post or by going to the embassy i don't really think the rest of the world apart from Poland would care. I accept its good for Polish/British relations that we allow you to have these elections here, please for one second don't think i would apply this to the Polish only because i wouldn't it would be to all. It's just a simple principal that the only voting, polling and electing to be done in this country should be our own.

Agreed.. Torny just doesn't like being wrong....it's just become argument for arguments sake :(

well i htink you'll find that when i'm wrong Daisy i publicly apoligise for being so. If i am ever out of line etc etc i am the first to write on the public boards either 'sorry' or 'i'm wrong' so don't question my integraty please, thank you
Grzegorz_  51 | 6138  
26 Oct 2007 /  #123
To be honest if we said 'no' you can't have public ballet boxes instead you have to vote by post or by going to the embassy i don't really think the rest of the world apart from Poland would care.

Are you kidding me ?
Daisy  3 | 1211  
26 Oct 2007 /  #124
To be honest if we said 'no' you can't have public ballet boxes

Polish Government employees arrange 20 polling stations around the country, as they see a need for this...... I don't know the details of all polling stations, but I do know my nearest one was held in club for Polish ex servicemen.... No doubt, the club was reimbursed financially for the use of the club and the club committee was happy with the arrangement ...who the hell is this 'We' who 'allowed' this to take place?... what kind of Stalinist regime would try to stop it..and how would they enforce such a ban?
osiol  55 | 3921  
26 Oct 2007 /  #125
Tornado...

... yawn.
trtnarmy1  1 | 21  
26 Oct 2007 /  #126
I can't agree with you here. i think it's very important that Britain remains in the EU

sorry but i want britain out the eu........ps-i love poland

It would be very interesting, and close, but I think that Britain would stay in the EU, by 55 to 45 or something like that. It would probably be down to who runs the best media campaign that would decide the result.

dont know where u got ur stats from if there was a vote tomorrow! then the uk would be out

Are you afraid of this?

very afraid!! the asian community have hid behind there own small communities since the day they arrived here and they remain distant toward the local population (well in scotland/glasgow anyway) ps- i love poland

Torn, I'm sorry to say that but you behave like an idiot. We have polling stations in every corner of this planet and your "why we allow that" make you only look like a 13yo kid. If you had any idea about international law, you would know that It's not a case of allowing anything, you simply have no saying about that.

identity!!!! this is the uk not poland, not pakistan, not india, and what makes you such an authority on international law, and even if you are right, why should someone from brussels or anywhere else be allowed to dictate law in the uk? Generations of people from this country worked hard to make it what it is, they paid (as we all do) national insurance on top of tax so we could have the best health service, so we could have the best in education etc etc etc, why now should this country be opened up to anyone from anywhere else on the planet to take advantage of the society that generations of UK nationals paid into and built? .......ps-i love poland
osiol  55 | 3921  
26 Oct 2007 /  #127
if there was a vote tomorrow! then the uk would be out

Probably. Because there are too many sheep and not enough thinkers.
The UK would be worse off for it too.

the asian community

There isn't such thing as 'The Asian Community'.

we could have the best health service

Great. The country has been waiting for it for 60 years or so.

the best in education

Ha ha ha!

PS. Poland's alright.
Grzegorz_  51 | 6138  
26 Oct 2007 /  #128
and what makes you such an authority on international law, and even if you are right, why should someone from brussels or anywhere else be allowed to dictate law in the uk?

Christ... This has nothing to do with EU, this is about the most basic civilized standards of relations between countries. The polling stations where in Polish owned buildings or in places rented by our government, so how the hell British government could "not allow" that to happen ? Send police and arrest people organizing these elections ?
z_darius  14 | 3960  
26 Oct 2007 /  #129
ok so please expalin what you mean, examples etc, i kind of get where your coming from but i would like to hear a few examples and reasonings please??

Back to your question that I promised to answer.
In points:

1939 - GB does not fulfill its military obligation towards Poland
1940 - Poles fight for Britain (the most effective pilots during the Battle of Britain, 5% of RAF, responsible for 12% of kills, fighting only since about 1/2 way through the Battle)

1944 - Little help (if any) during Warsaw Uprising. Polish squadrons not allowed to help either.
1945 - Poland is already given to Stalin while Poles still fight under UK's command (Poles were the 4th largest army in Europe during WW2)

1946 - Victory parade in London, Poles not allowed to participate
2007 - one tornado2007 claims that Poles should not be allowed to vote in their own elections if they reside in the UK, even if Poles pay every last penny of the cost.
osiol  55 | 3921  
26 Oct 2007 /  #130
1944 - Little help (if any) during Warsaw Uprising.

The RAF provided the only continuous support during the uprising. I got that from Wikipedia, but I'd read stuff about it elsewhere.

2007 - one tornado2007 claims that Poles should not be allowed to vote

Who cares what he thinks?
z_darius  14 | 3960  
26 Oct 2007 /  #131
The RAF provided the only continuous support during the uprising.

This is kinda true. And admittedly, there were technical issues RAF faced, and the danger to RAF pilots was undoubtedly high. But so was it in other areas.

Warsaw was simply not worth the Western effort anymore, as it had already been given away to the USSR.

Churchill faced a great dilemma. On the one hand he had Stalin who wanted Poland, and Roosevelt who didn't give squat about Poland, on the other, there were >100,000 Polish soldiers, still very much needed by the Western Allies. Sure UK had to sent some planes to Warsaw.
postie  7 | 112  
27 Oct 2007 /  #132
1940 - Poles fight for Britain (the most effective pilots during the Battle of Britain, 5% of RAF, responsible for 12% of kills, fighting only since about 1/2 way through the Battle)

While the statistics there are impressive, something else even more vital is missed.

The Battle of Britain was a pivotal battle during WW2. The UK stood alone against Nazi Germany after the fall of France.

Hitler, to enact his plan of the invasion of the UK, needed total air superiority to make sure of the success of a sea and airborne invasion. The RAF had to be destroyed. This was going to plan, as at one point during the Battle of Britain, we had every available pilot in the air. The RAF was on its knees with losses that we couldn't replace quick enough. Then we threw the Polish pilots into the battle... who up until then hadn't been involved in the battle as fighter pilots...which gave the RAF more resources and turned the battle.

You could say, quite easily, that without these additional pilots, we'd have lost the Battle of Britain and the invasion of the UK would have then been a real possibility. So, while the figures alone are impressive, the more important aspect is that by using Polish pilots, we didn't get invaded... and letting Poles vote here, in a Polish election, paid for by Poles/EU is the very least we could do.

There endeth the lesson!!!
truebrit  3 | 196  
27 Oct 2007 /  #133
This is kinda true. And admittedly, there were technical issues RAF faced, and the danger to RAF pilots was undoubtedly high. But so was it in other areas.
Warsaw was simply not worth the Western effort anymore, as it had already been given away to the USSR.

Churchill in particular wanted to send weapons/supplies to the Polish fighters.The soviet red army was just outside Warsaw and informed Britain and USA that any of their planes flying over would be shot down.
Matyjasz  2 | 1543  
27 Oct 2007 /  #134
who up until then hadn't been involved in the battle as fighter pilots...which gave the RAF more resources and turned the battle.

You mean hadn't been involved in BOB. They were veterans of the German invasion on Poland campaign.

Churchill faced a great dilemma. On the one hand he had Stalin who wanted Poland, and Roosevelt who didn't give squat about Poland, on the other, there were >100,000 Polish soldiers, still very much needed by the Western Allies. Sure UK had to sent some planes to Warsaw.

You forgot about our intelligence and the home army in occupied Poland. But either way, Churchill did as much as he could during the Warsaw Rising. I believe that he really felt some kind of affection towards polish people, during the WWII as well as before it, during the Polish-Bolshevik war in 1919-1921. It's just that the circumstances were tough. That of course doesn't mean that he didn't play his part in deceiving the Polish Government in London during the WWII. Still he had responsibilities regarding his own people, and he did everything to fulfill them, which wasn’t always very moral regarding Poles, or other allies from the Central and Eastern Europe.

1946 - Victory parade in London, Poles not allowed to participate

I see that nobody mentions that because of RAF, polish pilots were allowed to participate in this parade. It's just that those pilots said that either "all" Polish soldiers will participate or none. We know how that ended. But respect for RAF officials nonetheless.
z_darius  14 | 3960  
27 Oct 2007 /  #135
You forgot about our intelligence and the home army in occupied Poland.

Which intelligence? Not sure if you're Polish or British.

That of course doesn't mean that he didn't play his part in deceiving the Polish Government in London during the WWII.

That was my point

I see that nobody mentions that because of RAF, polish pilots were allowed to participate in this parade.

Only after protests by some British pilots and the general population appeared in British newspapers

It's just that those pilots said that either "all" Polish soldiers will participate or none.

Don't you see that those Polish RAF pilots did the right thing by demanding that ALL Poles who fought should be honored?
OP tornado2007  11 | 2270  
27 Oct 2007 /  #136
Are you kidding me ?

no i'm not joking, who is going to kick up just because we don't let you vote using one specific methods when others are open to you

who the hell is this 'We' who 'allowed' this to take place?

Britain :)

Tornado...

... yawn.

sorry donkey maybe its not a good idea to swallow those things that look like polo's there actually sleeping pills :)

sorry but i want britain out the eu........ps-i love poland

mate i would love to be out, thanks for your support, i also like Poland :)

well thank you so much for your help 60 years ago. I think you'll find that the UK as part of the EU has already given Poland enough, none of the countries ow each other anything.
osiol  55 | 3921  
27 Oct 2007 /  #137
its not a good idea to swallow those things that look like polo's there actually sleeping pills

Who needs sleeping pills when you're off on one?
Polo's what?

Citizens of other EU countries can't vote in Westminster parliamentary elections, but they can register to vote at local government, devolved legislature (ie. Scottish parliament, Welsh assembly) and in European Parliament elections.

How do you like that, eh, Torny?
_Sofi_  
27 Oct 2007 /  #138
Probably. Because there are too many sheep and not enough thinkers.

We'd be making a big mistake...

and letting Poles vote here, in a Polish election, paid for by Poles/EU is the very least we could do.

...not that it really affects us in any way whatsoever if they do or don't... God only knows why Tornado is against it...

just because we don't let you vote using one specific methods when others are open to you

don't you think it sounds a bit petty? Why close off that option? What harm does it bring you? Personally? As a 'nation' ?
OP tornado2007  11 | 2270  
27 Oct 2007 /  #139
Who needs sleeping pills when you're off on one?
Polo's what?

you know donkeys, horses they love those mints with the hole :)

Who needs sleeping pills when you're off on one?

obviously a lot of people as they seem to reply or react in what way it dosen't concern me but hay there is a positive and negative to everything.

How do you like that, eh, Torny?

i think your trying to pull a fast one, lol

We'd be making a big mistake...

why??

don't you think it sounds a bit petty? Why close off that option? What harm does it bring you? Personally?

you h ave to start somewhere, its like hte butterfly effect, first you let foreign nationals vote on their elections, then what next can happen on UK ground that has nothing at all to do with the UK??? it always starts of with small things.
osiol  55 | 3921  
27 Oct 2007 /  #140
i think your trying to pull a fast one

Look it up. Ever filled out a voter registration card?

Polo's horses?

making a big mistake...

why??

Too many reasons for you to fathom.

first you let foreign nationals vote on their elections

Then they let you vote on their soil in yours perhaps.
OP tornado2007  11 | 2270  
27 Oct 2007 /  #141
Polo's horses?

yeah donkeys too :)

Too many reasons for you to fathom.

no osiol your not stupid enough to lead off into the 'i'm questioning your intelligence or ability to understand something' i hope.

Then they let you vote on their soil in yours perhaps.

don't particularly want to and don't particularly think voting on foreign land should happen in the way i stated. For all the people saying i'm arguing for arguments sake then why can't we just say know that we can agree to disagree.
osiol  55 | 3921  
27 Oct 2007 /  #142
no osiol your not stupid enough to lead off into the 'i'm questioning your intelligence or ability to understand something' i hope

No, but I've given you many arguments before in favour of the UK's membership of the EU, but you got stuck on many simple statements I had made, so I'm not going to bother repeating myself.

don't particularly want to and don't particularly think voting on foreign land should happen in the way i stated

Just because you don't want to vote, that doesn't mean you should deny the rights of others.
OP tornado2007  11 | 2270  
27 Oct 2007 /  #143
No, but I've given you many arguments before in favour of the UK's membership of the EU, but you got stuck on many simple statements I had made, so I'm not going to bother repeating myself.

Probably because the simplest things in life are important :) You seem to be able to make a 2 page pull out a 300 page report, i merely cut it down and take out the parts that are simple, therefore important.

Just because you don't want to vote, that doesn't mean you should deny the rights of others.

I do want to vote, i didn't say i don't, i just wouldn't want to do in another country in a public arena. I'm in somebody else's house doing my business, dosen't sound right does it!!
PolskaDoll  27 | 1591  
27 Oct 2007 /  #144
Are you still harping on about this?
OP tornado2007  11 | 2270  
27 Oct 2007 /  #145
i think osiol just wants to pick at me at the moment so what else am i meant to do keep stum, who me :)
osiol  55 | 3921  
27 Oct 2007 /  #146
Tornado00000, you don't understand economics, politics, international diplomacy, or when to shut up.

i just wouldn't want to do in another country in a public arena

So you would deny the rights of others...

...we've been through this before. PAY ATTENTION.
OP tornado2007  11 | 2270  
27 Oct 2007 /  #147
Tornado00000, you don't understand economics, politics, international diplomacy, or when to shut up.

you don't have a clue what i know and don't know :)

So you would deny the rights of others...

its not about denying the other people, its just i don't want public voting, simple. Its not the people i want to deny its the public voting i don't want. Surely you can see that, in fact i know you can.

we've been through this before. PAY ATTENTION.

I do but when you get two strong minded people this is what happens, i respect our opinion and this is why i don't call you stupid, or tell you to shut up, or say your wrong your wrong your wrong. I don't mind you putting forward points and counter debating my points, but you do exactly what you accuse me off. Yesterday or the day before you accused me of sitting on a high horse, you might want to read your last post and think about what you look like sometimes. I'm not accusing you of sitting on a high horse i'm saying that mayeb you shouldn't cast stones.

I don't think you realise that i have a respect for people that i talk to virtually, well most, those who can talk like adults (of which you are one) however i don't feel i get the same respect back.
osiol  55 | 3921  
27 Oct 2007 /  #148
you don't have a clue what i know and don't know

You make some of it pretty obvious to this forum.

you accused me of sitting on a high horse, you might want to read your last post and think about what you look like sometimes

My horse has steadier legs, and you might notice I'm not always as stubborn as a donkey.
I have principles that will never move, but some of my opinions can change given strong enough facts and good argument. On some matters, I will admit to having no opinion whatsoever - there is nothing wrong with that.

however i don't feel i get the same respect back.

I respect that you can lighten up at times with the same people you have just been arguing with (by that I mean against).
Occasionally, I even agree with you, but quite often I find you continually making a point we have all got, but that you don't seem to pay any attention the arguments made against it.
OP tornado2007  11 | 2270  
27 Oct 2007 /  #149
You make some of it pretty obvious to this forum.

you can gage what i know but not what i don't after all you cannot read minds.

having no opinion whatsoever - there is nothing wrong with that.

i totally agree with that

I have principles that will never move, but some of my opinions can change given strong enough facts and good argument

same here

My horse has steadier legs, and you might notice I'm not always as stubborn as a donkey.

lol

I rehttps://polishforums.com/polonia_uk-f31_0.html
Polonia - UKspect that you can lighten up at times with the same people you have just been arguing with (by that I mean against).

of course i can lighten up but i'm not arguing i'm debating with you. Arguing is over aggressive discussion that is beyond the reasonable, debating is giving your honest opinions on a subject and seeing and commenting on others responses.

Occasionally, I even agree with you,

hay don't think htis is one way, i also agree with you,

but that you don't seem to pay any attention the arguments made against it.

i do read all the arguments against me, however sometimes it isn't actually a reaction to my point rather something around the edges. Yes sometimes i may fail to react to something and i make mistakes, who dosen't were all human or an animal of some kind :)
osiol  55 | 3921  
27 Oct 2007 /  #150
but not what i don't

Disagree.
Lack of knowledge of any particular subject becomes apparent when one posts on a forum about that subject.

Arguing is over aggressive discussion

No. That's having a row.
An argument can be a stated reason for or against an idea.
That, is my argument.

hay don't think htis is one way, i also agree with you

Oh no! This is getting too friendly. I might have to disagree.

i do read all the arguments against me

I assumed that you at least glance over or scan through what other people have said in your arguments, sorry, debates. I don't think you always take it all in. Some arguments people make do move somewhat laterally, but that includes you too.

an animal of some kind

I'll come back as a goat next time... if there is a next time.

Archives - 2005-2009 / UK, Ireland / Polls for Poles in the UKArchived