POLES SUPERIOR TO BRITS?

Soviet Union lacked the necessary preparation to attack Germany.The plan was proposed to Stalin but never realized.

Not realized because Germans attacked first. In first days of war 20% of ammunition, tanks, planes and defensive systems were destroyed by Nazi forces because Soviet Union all allocated it along the very border preparing itself for attack.

Correct, on 22 june 41 the soviet forces were under express orders not to provoke the germans on the borders.In fact the border regions were stripped to a minimum . and a hupe proportion of the RKKA was in the soviet far east preparing for an expected Japanese attack.

Wrong. Many heavy machinery and army were located at Ukrainian-Bielorus'-Polish border. Soviet army was preparing for attack. Again it lost heavily in first days of the war by simple fact of shoving its forces too far into the frontal line as it became when Germans suddenly attacked. Again Soviet Union wanted to attack Nazi forces first.

Let's how well informed you are.


The strength of the Soviet army was tested less 20 years before. Poland which just regain independence crushed that mighty army with its meager army. That same army was running eastward from the Germans like rabbits, with no resistance to speak of. Then they received badly needed and huge military help from the West. Without it things might have looked differently. Oh, and let's not forget that Stalin was so desperate with his "almighty army" that he decided to use, among others, Polish prisoners from the Gulag system - nearly 100,000 of them.


If medical emergency crews reacted with similar speed they would be called funeral home employees.


RIbentrop/Molotov pact had little to do with the British empire. As for Hitler's stance, he actually wanted to get the spoils of the crumbling British empire. He sought Soviet support. Soviet response was inconclusive.


Another myth. Britain would be dead with most of Europe controlled by Germans. Germans would dictate pretty much every aspect of European activities, economy being just one of those, but one that would pretty much destroy British economy.


I already addressed that myth.


That is the Irish spirit, not Polish.


We do realize that. Churchill was indeed FDR's puppet.


National shame in what?
Poland, even when defeated net its obligations. Poles fought for Britain. Brits waited when Poland was attacked. Shame's on the Brits.


Accounts of the Allies? Where were they during WW2? Not in Poland. What do they know?
The Soviets? If you believe in the Soviet accounts then that pretty much settles it :)


The mere mention is not a reflection of the input. In fact, Poles were even less than a mere mention when they were not even initially invited to the Victory Parade in 1945. The 4th largest army in Europe was not invited to celebrate the end of WW2.

Poles do not expect to occupy majority of British history manuals, but the mere mentions speak more about Brits than about Poles.


I dunno what every Pole says about WW2, but again, Poles did defeat Russians.

dannyboy, your show of ignorance of basic facts of WW2 is startling.

all know historical facts, thanks Darius

Battle of Moscow:Oktober 1941.Entrance of USA into the war:December 1941.What military help are you talking about?


It had a lot to do with the British empire because the next proposal of Hitler to Molotov in October 1940(when Molotov visited Berlin) was to share the British empire colonies(SU would take India) but Molotov refused.

Other facts:1942:Number of german divisions in North Africa front:4.Number of german divisions in eastern front:180.
1944:Number of german divisions in Italy:8.Number of german divisions in France:45.Number of german divisions in eastern front:200.

He did. But the truth is that this battle was critical and decisive. Had the Polish soldiers not done this, the Germans would've defeated the whole regiment, and they would've had more time to re-establish their positions.

Everybody fought their ass off. Oh, and most Germans were just young men who did as they were told. (Or were forced to do.)

And what I mean with cover up was that the Dutch government has been under some political pressure coming from England, not to recoqnize the Polish, (Meaning they never got their medals and recoqnition untill recently!) or to shed more light on this particular event in the war.

The Polish General ended up standing outside an English hotel, welcoming guests for a living.

I know you don't like to hear that, but it's true, and it's also a shame.

...finally as always on this forum it gets down to whose dead grandfather was a better man because of the political motivations he was obliged to fight for. Wonderful gents, another remarkable digression into ww2. *Now let's please get back to the incredibly insightful and productive debate that this thread was supposed to have inspired.*

Is it just me or does anyone else feel like smacking upside the head anyone who tries bragging about the country they come from or the ethnicity they belong to? I'm smacking you all upside your heads right now-SMACK!

* sarcasm on/off

I can't say I'd disagree with that sentiment..

:)

Viktor Suvorov is of completely different oppinion - he states there were massive forces in build-up process on Russo-German border and there were plans ready for invasion of Germany - it is just that Germans gambled to be the first to attack and Stalin ingored quite clear signals from the intelligence of German intentions. He could have figured that given the disproportion of armies, resources etc it would be foolish for Germans to attack. So in the end Russiand commanders in the west were taken by complete surprise. Most of the airforce destroyed on airstrips (it's numbers went in thousands). The reconaisance head of some German divisions went as far as 200 km into Russian controlled territory on the first day of Barbarossa.


So how come the biggest tank battle until 1943 Kursk took place in July 1941 near Brody in todays Ukraine just miles from the conteporanous German-Soviet border????

Battle of Moscow wasn't won in October. That's when it started and the going wasn't so good for the Russians. The battle ended in January the following year.

their logistical support was provided by hundreds of thousands of US-made trucks. Indeed by 1945 nearly two-thirds of the truck strength of the Red Army was U.S.-built. Trucks such as the Dodge ¾ ton and Studebaker 2.5 ton, were easily the best trucks available in their class on either side on the Eastern Front.] US supplies of telephone cable, aluminium, canned rations and fur boots were also critical, the latter providing a crucial advantage in the winter defence of Moscow


That meeting was subsequent to the actual Pact (1939) which was signed in Russia.
You're right though about the 1940 meeting. Another point in case - Hitler was sulivating at the thought of the spoils of British Empire. Brits though Hitler liked them and would have never acted against them. It's all Poland's thought that he did.

Will the British whining ever stop?

What a surprise to see this tired old lie being trotted out yet again by another psuedo-Pole. Funny how such people always forget that at the exact same time that the majority of the only Polish forces which could run away did just that (i.e. the Polish navy executing the 'sail at full steam to the safety of the nearest British base’ plan, aka the Pekin plan), the British navy were sailing towards the Germans to engage their navy. And they never mention how the first RAF mission against German was launched within 90 minutes of war being declared. Just as they never mention how in August 1939 their military junta refused British offers to send forces to Poland because they didn’t want to provoke Germany.


I was wondering when this lie would get another airing. The truth of the matter is that both representatives of the official Polish government and of the ‘free Polish’ forces were invited to attend the Victory Parade and neither bothered to turn up.


Yet another lie. German General Guderian wrote in his journal, "the offensive on Moscow failed…. We underestimated the enemy's strength, as well as his size and climate. Fortunately, I stopped my troops on December 5, otherwise the catastrophe would be unavoidable." Do note how German troops were halted two days before the Pearl Harbour attacks. German units were ordered to retreat on December 14. You still want to claim it was US supplies that won the battle for the Soviets?


I never hear Brits whining about WWII. But I hear Poles whining and lying about it almost every single day. Thanks for providing today's example.

well inform yourself better Harry - just look-up lend-lease entry on wiki - you will find that Americans supplied the Soviets on lend-lease terms already in October 1941. Period.

I don't know details or if this support was decisive. But still what you write tells you are not well informed.


Russian soldiers wore American boots, eaten American canned meat and bread baked from American grain. without it they would quite possibly die of hunger. Don't know about fuel supplies but wouldn't be surprised if they badly needed some.

Big smelly underpants! The soviet union was in the midst of a civil war when Poland tried its luck at an eastward expansion.The army defeated on the banks of the vistula was hardly the same entity as the huge RKKA of the 1940s. Its laughable really how deluded some people are and how "facts" easily refuted by the rest of the world are constantly trotted out and amened by the mob.


Nuts, britains econamy had nothing to do with europe,it was tied in to its vast oversees territories and the commenwealth....but you keep telling yourself this guff if it keeps you happy.


Of being europes doormat for the last few hundred years?


lol,the usual twisting going on.....lets see,your response,so,first off the Poles were not allies? and then..plenty of allied service personel were in Poland,just watch The Great Escape,or alternativly lets see how far the Home Army would have got without the sacrifice of Allied aircrews,or maybe read accounts like Red runs the Vistula, a Brit in the Warsaw AK..... Not to mention you completly ignore the reference to Axis accounts,but hey ho,selective memory is it seems a national trait ....


why not the stress on the word INITIALY? Oh yes,wouldnt play with the usual half truths and woe is me pity party that some Poles wish the world to throw for them...


Oh really,so the Warsaw Pact is a forty year old myth then is it?


Really,why? And if this is true I rather think the shame lies with the Dutch Government.


I wouldnt know what happened to General Sosobowski later in his life,what I do know is that most Doctors who had served in 1stPolish airborne worked as Family Doctors in my county in England,one of them was a neighbour of mine for a time and let me tell you he was respected and rather well off financialy,I guess you make your way in this life how the cards are delt,for every sad tale of failure re post war Poles you have a tale of succes,the Polish RAF Air vice Marshal,the first forgein born person to rise to that rank etc etc...


I know all about "second front" mate, Im just simplyfying the situation to the leval some of these dummies may have a chance of following.

BTW guys,give up,while Im writing this The Battle of Britain is on TV :)" look here,stop that Polish chit chat! " :)

funny how you say things without any closer examination - using your prejudice as jugdement tool does no good to the quality of your jugdement (quite contrary)

Polish navy stood no chance of defending itself and the Polish coast in a conflict with Germany - which was realised by Polish command - the main threat was German airforce - Germans had Polish coast on a plate as for strikes from the air. That was the idea behind Operation Peking. What I say was proven in September 1939 btw - the two bigger ships that remained on Polish waters were disabled by German air strikes early in the war. (ORP Wicher, ORP Gryf)

Really? British forces attacked Germans 3 day before declaring war on Germany?

The Allied governments declared war on Germany on 3 September; however, they failed to provide any meaningful support.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Poland_(1939)


Yes, eventually, under the pressure from public opinion and some MPs the British government offered a token and cowardly offer tosome Poles.
The parade is also notable for the exclusion of all Polish servicemen; hundreds thousands of whom served in the Polish Armed Forces in the West as one of the largest Allied contingents. The 303 squadron was the only Polish unit invited; it declined because the invitation was not extended to any other Polish units, despite Poland being the fourth largest European ally during World War II.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1946_London_Victory_Parade


That doesn't mean the soviet army was the super power some believe it to have been in the early stages of WW2. After all, just a year earlier the Soviets were beat up badly by small Finland, even though the numbers would have indicated the Finns stood no chances:

Finland;
250,000 men
30 tanks
130 aircraft

USSR
1,000,000 men
6,541 tanks
3,880 aircraft

The Soviet super power was slaughtered.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War

So again, there is a huge misconception about the might of the USSR in the first parts of WW2.

Harry, Harry, still lying after all these years. It's not like you haven't had a chance to learn. You show some real resistance to education and reason.


see my comment on Finland (1940)


British economy had everything to do with Europe. Even Americans trembled at the prospect of loosing Europe to German influence. Oh those romantic Brits and their empires :)


Well, the doormat is moving on and that's where you decided to make a living. The uber Brits are continuing to loose out and became the toilet paper of their former colonies.


what does it have to do with Poles having a history of defeating Russians?
Britain never did that.

repeat please,Repeat please.

Yes, every time some half brained Brits repeat lies and myths I will correct them.

Christ will this argumnet ever end? Britian did nothing for Poland, Poland wasnt invited to the parade, 303 squadron. Blah blah boo hoo.