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Why do Poles come to England?


laddy - | 22  
9 Nov 2009 /  #451
If you are a Pole with a good experience, good English etc, you are not earning less or doing some cr@ppy jobs.
But when you come here with your phony masters, no experience, bad English and equally bad attitude, do not expect too much.

this i have first hand experience. the reason poles are at my place is that we used an agency, and the skills and qualifications their said their had were all bs.
RevokeNice 15 | 1,859  
9 Nov 2009 /  #452
And what did any of the countries that our people went to owe us?
You're full of it.

Nothing. Europeans colonised these vast countries, the Irish/Polish/Germans/Brits/You name it emigrated there.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
9 Nov 2009 /  #453
and the skills and qualifications their said their had were all bs.

What qualifications do you have?

Nothing.

Are you going senile?
You are contradicting your own argument.
Slawek076 - | 81  
9 Nov 2009 /  #454
this i have first hand experience. the reason poles are at my place is that we used an agency, and the skills and qualifications their said their had were all bs.

Correction - because people with skills, education and experience will never fall down to work through agencies. Of course , those of us whose know what they're worth. That's why agencies employe everyone including you Brits for nothing worth pseudo contracts.
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
9 Nov 2009 /  #455
That was true, 5 years ago, now good jobs only for English. There was many info about that problem on BBC. They sent to over 100 employers the same CV's with different names, one part with British names and other with foreign. Do you know the result. Only 10% of foreign was sucessful if we compare it to 80% of CVs with British names. I made the same market research and i've found the same lack.

So are you saying its wrong for a British employer in Britain to employ a British person over a foreigner?

Do you realise how silly that sounds.

Even if you've got the same of better experience than British you won't get a job.

Same isnt going to get you far, competition for jobs is tight, tighter than its ever been. One reason an prospective employer would pick an indiginous person over a foreigner is that they are more likely to stay with the company. My friends company wont employ eastern europeans any longer (this is an office) because the retention was low, they left after a year or so to go "home", when you take in to consideration training etc., its doesnt make sense to employ people who are not going to stay.

Do you really think that we are here for your convenience?

I'll say it again, people from new member states were not invited to come and work in the UK, people came of their own volition.

I'm not sure it's 100% as it should be because it's translated from Me and other immigrants like me we've got enough skills and education to be a boss in your companies,olish, but hopefully you understand what I mean.

If you're that smart, how come you didnt manage to make it in Poland like many other Polish people living there have?
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
9 Nov 2009 /  #456
You are running out of arguments when your only reason for supporting mass immigration

Show me where I said that, old man?
Have you forgotten my argument already?
Time for your meds.

I said speak to the indigenous people of the New World countries, and ask them their views on mass immigration. If you can find them.

Irish people fled famine 150 years ago.

And of course you see no connection here?

Tell me, at what stage will our past sins be forgiven?

You are one to talk about sin, you're a despicable racist who hides behind free speech and manipulating facts.
You are an embarrassment to all those that died to bring your racist attitudes in to the world.

I'll say it again, people from new member states were not invited to come and work in the UK, people came of their own volition.

However painful this might sound, your government allowed the freedom of movement, therefore inviting people to go there and work.

If you're that smart, how come you didnt manage to make it in Poland like many other Polish people living there have?

There is still quite high unemployment here in Poland, it was higher before many left to seek employment in Ireland and the U.K. because they were the governments that invited them, (ok with the word 'invite' we could get into semantics, which is pointless) we can agree on 'allowed'.

Was there labour shortages in England?
nincompoop_not 2 | 192  
9 Nov 2009 /  #457
RevokeNice:
I said speak to the indigenous people of the New World countries, and ask them their views on mass immigration. If you can find them.

RevokeNice:
Irish people fled famine 150 years ago.

And of course you see no connection here?

RevokeNice, are you Irish-Irish, or by any chance someone like Graham Norton who discovered that his family roots are actually in Yorkshire? :)
RevokeNice 15 | 1,859  
9 Nov 2009 /  #458
Have you forgotten my argument already?

Nope, as you do not have one. You just spout nonsense about Irish emigration that happened over 150 years ago.

manipulating facts.

You are not to good at this are you? How the hell can you manipulate facts? Facts are facts.

You are an embarrassment to all those that died to bring your racist attitudes in to the world.

What the hell are you on about now, you fat mess?

However painful this might sound, your government allowed the freedom of movement, therefore inviting people to go there and work.

Show me the invite. Does mass immigration have majority support of the people in the UK and Ireland?
Slawek076 - | 81  
9 Nov 2009 /  #459
they left after a year or so to go "home", when you take in to consideration training etc., its doesnt make sense to employ people who are not going to stay.

sad true but not all of us immigrants do the same
nincompoop_not 2 | 192  
9 Nov 2009 /  #460
Show me the invite.

come on RN...are you really one of those who can't process complex information?

If a country declares free movement it has to forsee outcome of such decisions.

And just in case someone is reading this and is not sure what I am talking about, look here Plantations of Ireland the real facts from Wiki to see how this old man manipulates facts.

that's why I'm interested how far back RN can trace his Irish roots

To me scalp.

not very deep then

and quote carefully in future; my blood pressure is in perfect order

Dont worry, I dont think he will be awarded the Noble prize for literature on your behalf.

if anything then SHE..and SHE POLISH on the top of it
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
9 Nov 2009 /  #461
come on RN...are you really one of those who can't process complex information?

But it wasnt an "invite" - Britain were just stupid and completely under estimated the numbers that would come, hence the reason they put in place restrictions when the likes of Bulgaria joined (lessons learnt). Had they done their homework they would have put the same restrictions in place for the A8 countries. Im not against Europeans coming to the UK and working, Id just like it to be more controlled, it makes sense for both sides, we dont have the job market flooded and vulnerable foreigners are not taken advantage of, in the end there are few winners.
nincompoop_not 2 | 192  
9 Nov 2009 /  #462
But it wasnt an "invite" - Britain were just stupid and completely under estimated the numbers that would come, hence the reason they put in place restrictions when the likes of Bulgaria joined (lessons learnt)

It wasn't an invite like Ausitralia or New Zealand does when they organise open days and invite people to go and live there.
But whatever you call it the bottom line is that the UK government made it possible for A8 to come and work here pretty straight away. No questions asked and I think it's not disputable.

And one more thing about this 'non-existing' invite.
The first people to jump through this open door were employment agencies and employers who organised hundreds and hundreds of meetings IN Poland to recruit people for various, mainly labour, jobs.

The fact that the government was inept enough to predict what will happen is another matter. Long term thinking and proper risk assessment arent't the strongets point in of the current administration.
Slawek076 - | 81  
9 Nov 2009 /  #463
Slawek076:
I'm not sure it's 100% as it should be because it's translated from Me and other immigrants like me we've got enough skills and education to be a boss in your companies,olish, but hopefully you understand what I mean.

If you're that smart, how come you didnt manage to make it in Poland like many other Polish people living there have?

I didn't mean exactly what you understood...It was about --read all below

We all will realize who is your real friend in hard times not in good times.

I'm not sure it's 100% as it should be because it's translated from Polish, but hopefully you understand what I mean.

ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
9 Nov 2009 /  #464
It wasn't an invite like Ausitralia or New Zealand does when they organise open days and invite people to go and live there.

The English dont get "invited" to Aus or New Zealand, there is a points based system, if you dont get the points, you dont get in, unless its vacancies that dont have the personnel to fill - skill shortage (generally "professionals") - the "invites" for unskilled people havent happened for a long time, probably since the 1950s.

But whatever you call it the bottom line is that the UK government made it possible for A8 to come and work here pretty straight away. No questions asked and I think it's not disputable.

The UK government have done a lot of stupid things, there is no disputing that either - but the fact still remains, it was not an "invite" as some people keep calling it. There were questions asked, we have the WRS, other members of the Union dont have this.

The first people to jump through this open door were employment agencies and employers who organised hundreds and hundreds of meetings IN Poland to recruit people for various, mainly labour, jobs.

I have no idea about this, but Im sure they tapped in to a cheap labour force, but that was 5 years ago, things were different in the UK.

I didn't mean exactly what you understood...It was about --read all below

I meant, there are 1,000s of Polish people doing well in Poland, if you think you are so smart and can do things better than we can in the UK, i.e. run our companies better, then why are you not living in Poland running a company?

We all will realize who is your real friend in hard times not in good times.

We also say "charity begins at home" Most Poles come to the UK for money only, how does that make them "friends"???? They came for their own reasons, not to make some big difference to the UK...We are not some 3rd world country which you came to help build and we should be grateful for all your assistance.

Look, I have no problem whatsoever with Polish people working in the UK, but what I take umbridge to is the whining about how they should be treated this way or that way or England should change this or that because it doesnt suit them. Or that they should be looked at as favourably as an English person, do you think an English person in Poland would be given this kind of treatment?
southern 75 | 7,096  
9 Nov 2009 /  #465
Britain were just stupid and completely under estimated the numbers that would come,

They did not underestimate.Why Germans had already put restrictions?If you went to Poland in 2007 you would see a great number of ads on the street advertising work offers in UK.

What British did not expect in my opinion was the slavic civilization.They maybe thought Poles are like them or like third world immigrants.
laddy - | 22  
9 Nov 2009 /  #466
third world immigrants.

agree
southern 75 | 7,096  
9 Nov 2009 /  #467
English can probably exercise their white superiority with third wordlers however with Poles it is quite dfficult and causes stress.It is a normal situation.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
9 Nov 2009 /  #468
SÅ‚awek, you'd be surprised at the people who accept agency work. Straight after my Masters in Nov 2000, I worked 3 contracts til Oct 2001 when I left for Japan. It was a humbling experience and we need to experience humility. It gave me some good computer and teamwork experience, though. I like the more laid-back attitude that was there. The money sucked but it didn't matter if I was off my game (in teaching it DOES).

The problem is one of perception when it comes to Englishmen and Poles. The Poles often see themselves as skilled workers (this is generally true, many are) whereas quite a few English folk see them as Eastern European ants to be trampled on (ants work hard ;) ;)).

However, having talked to many Poles and watched enough accounts, Poles often come to England for money. Scotland too of course. The first Poles I met were in my CELTA in Apr-May 2004. A few of them were dour-faced basta*ds but a couple really got me interested (no, not females, LOL). Socialising was encouraged so we had a blast. What I noticed was that Poles were defensive until you wrestled with that and got them out of their shells. It takes them a while to trust.
Ksysia 25 | 430  
9 Nov 2009 /  #469
Poles were defensive until you wrestled with that and got them out of their shells. It takes them a while to trust.

I have the same observation, and about the English as well... In two weeks I'm giving a party at which two locals have confirmed coming. Smashing success, normally they are only coming to Friday beer. While I need 4 weeks to get acquainted in every new job.

And yes, I change jobs often - simply because the first one I found has put me low on the job market, and now the climb back up is painfully slow. No promotions a likely in that case because they are for furniture employees, as this is definitely not America. So I hop a lot.

And they seem to hate it :(

What I don't understand is - how come job is so much a social occasion for them? To me it's a trade - I pay for money with my time and effort. They pay for work with money.

I tried to explain that once to a pal at work (whom I still contact, so I'm not betraying friends in my opinion), and he said he admired my Eastern European attitude?!
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
9 Nov 2009 /  #470
The English can be that way too, you are right. What is an Eastern European attitude? Americans don't tend to mix business with pleasure but the Poles often look for a social occasion to lighten the load.

In Japan, entertaining is a must. It's encouraged here too but not compulsory.
nincompoop_not 2 | 192  
9 Nov 2009 /  #471
but the fact still remains, it was not an "invite" as some people keep calling it. There were questions asked, we have the WRS, other members of the Union dont have this.

ok. wasn't aware you dispute the actual word 'invite'. From my perspective it was just job market opened. As for the WRS system it is poorly executed.

As for NZ and Aus - yes, they do have point based system but as long as you tick all the right boxes you are fine.

They did not underestimate.[...] What British did not expect in my opinion was the slavic civilization

Frankly, they did. As for your slavic comment, and not only on this thread - have you got a problem with Slavs? From what I can see, you display rather unfounded superiority to Slavs and women specifically. Male chauvinisim and belittling women is so past by date...but maybe not in Greece.

Poles often come to England for money. Scotland too of course.

Majority - yes.
Some young people come to study, live for a bit and move on to another countries before finally settling down in Poland. It's not a huge prcentage thou.

Im talking after 2004
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
9 Nov 2009 /  #472
Many have this romantic vision of better times in the land of pierogi and holy roads ;)

England is the big cash cow for them and they suck the teets quite the thing. I like sucking on 'teets' too ;)
nincompoop_not 2 | 192  
9 Nov 2009 /  #473
I like sucking on 'teets' too ;)

southern may be up for the job.he seems to like experimenting and probably not only with slavic women
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
9 Nov 2009 /  #474
If some Poles didn't view life as a boxing match but more of a collaborative effort then they'd see real progress. Let's face it, many went to England to escape and get more money. The exchange rate was around 7:1 in May 2004.
nincompoop_not 2 | 192  
9 Nov 2009 /  #475
no way it was 7:1...was it?
sadly, it was just checked
waluty.onet.pl/gbp-pln-kurs-funta-brytyjskiego-do-zlotowki,18909,828,5,1110,0,profile-statystyka?date=30.04.2004

...and since then it's been going down and down and down...
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
9 Nov 2009 /  #476
It was 7.2:1 when I arrived in Sep 2004. A basic job for 1000 pounds a month could attract 7000PLN a month. For those a little more skilled, they could easily rake in 2000 a month, so 14000PLN. Very healthy indeed!
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
9 Nov 2009 /  #477
southern may be up for the job.he seems to like experimenting and probably not only with slavic women

Lock up your goats!

From my perspective it was just job market opened.

Thats better, so we can agree that there was no invitation :D

As for the WRS system it is poorly executed.

It still is, there are a lot of people that come here as "self-employed" who are not required to register, IMO they should.

As for NZ and Aus - yes, they do have point based system but as long as you tick all the right boxes you are fine.

So, its not a free for all with an open door policy (no invites)..they can pick and chose who they let in, you also need a job to go to, i.e. a sponsor, so its not just a case of ticking all the boxes, there's a little bit more to it than that, as I stated its a certain type of person that emmigrates to Aus or NZ, its for life not to make a bit of cash...Brits leave Britain for different reasons than Polish people leave Poland.
southern 75 | 7,096  
10 Nov 2009 /  #478
have you got a problem with Slavs?

The opposite.I want here as many Slavs as possible.I wrote that English do not like what polish civilization is about,of course I don't know but I like that.(the polish civilization).
nincompoop_not 2 | 192  
10 Nov 2009 /  #479
It still is, there are a lot of people that come here as "self-employed" who are not required to register, IMO they should.

they are not required to register under the WRS because they are required to register with HMRC/CIS
All the rules have changed over the years. Some people who come here now are confused about the WRS and they don't register because they think they don't have to.

As for the 'invitation'...I've never said it and got a bit mixed up in your discussion with slawek i think.
Ironside 51 | 11,339  
10 Nov 2009 /  #480
Now, Id love to know how many illegal Brits there are in America in comparison to illegal Poles, I think we know who'll win that one.

Who knows? I don't know, do you?
I think that even USA authorities know, I would say that for a Brit is much easer to pass for an American.Don't you?

oh sorry, she actually owns the salon...do you understand the difference?

Most of them?Do you have any statistics?
Sorry Shelley but I don't buy it that most of said immigrants are starting they own businesses there ...and how many are successful? Main difference I see is that Brits have some capital for a start, to buy better house that they could afford in Britain and that they can speak lingo :)

our reasons are very different to that of Poles.

Oh really? I don't think so.
You want to better your life and they want to better their life.
Only difference is starting point, is simple as that!
You must be one very young lady or a very naive one regardless your claim to come up with something like that.

Saying all that I agree that uncontrolled immigration is bad and there should be done something about it.
As for your claim that British government didn't foresee it because is stupid, I disagree I sense something more sinister there ......
As for whining, people constantly are whining about influx of Eastern Europeans and such, well what would you think if someone was ranting and slurring you because he/she didn't like a way you were doing something which is perfectly legal ?

No wonder you are getting your own whining back into your face, people are people.

:
I can count, up to 43,562. The amount of Poles who are on the leech in my country.

Well, everybody there suckers to be milked dry, everyone have a go !:P

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