Poland Property...should I be scared

This topic is full of everything from good sound intelligent information and advice to some pretty over the top stereotyping of our asian cousins :) .

I have owned a property in Poland for about 3 years.Since it is in a Rural area it is almost impossible to judge the rise in price(my valuation varies between 20 and 70%).This is because the locals will never give a true price for anything if asked and so getting any price takes about 3 weeks and on average 2 bottles of vodka and then this can change once they talk again to their cousin from Warsaw .....

The only facts that I base my judegment on are
wages for Poles in the UK is about 4 times what the people in towns close to me were earning last year.
A good percentage gets returned to the Polish economy through familys
European money is now being channelled directly into Poland
Very very few families currently have large loans or mortgages.
UK banks will give loans to just about anyone with an address and proof of a few months wages

In my opinion - Poland is due to see a fairly substantial rise in house and property prices in the next 5 years.

I agree with the comparisons that have been made to Ireland and even Spain. The time to invest in Poland for property is now.

It is also not true that only Polish people can buy properties. The facts are these

A foreigner may purchase real estate only after receiving permission from the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Administration (after approved by the Ministry of Defence and, in the case of farmland, also after receipt of approval by the Minister of Agriculture)

From the day of accession to the EU (1 May 2004), foreigners who are citizens or entrepreneurs of the EEC countries do not need permission to purchase real estate...

Exceptions to the above are:
1) Farms and woodlands - permission is required during the first 12 years from the date of Poland's accession to the EU. However, permission is not required if several conditions are fulfilled: if the person who wants to purchase the real estate is a leaseholder over a defined period (7 years for western regions of Poland and 3 years for the remainder ... and if the leaseholder personally conducts agricultural activities and lives legally in Poland

2) "Second House" - permission is required during the first 5 years from the date of Poland's accession to the EU (however, permission is not required if a foreigner lives legally and continuously in Poland for 4 years or if he purchases a "second house" in order to conduct business activities in tourism services

For the exact restrictions visit paiz.pl, click the Union Jack, select Polish Law from the menu across the top and then 'Purchase of Real Estate by Foreigners' from the menu on the left hand side

I hope this adds some value.

Also can you send some of those Polish builders back over to me because I have not finished my renovation work :)

mmm interesting points mmm...it is still crucial for people living in poland to buy into real estate asap...the point that in poland the languge is mainly polish, it would follow that very few non poles would be willing to settle into poland because of cheap homes, employment, way of life and future prospects would need to be considered.

I can only warn people buying investment properties in poland not to take any notice of the spin made by real estate agents that things are booming, the places where money has been made is out of reach to the average pole and relates to blue chip properties in krakow and warsaw..

A new entry into polish real estate is people coming in from Ireland and GB setting up real estate companies eager to make a quick killing.. the only casualty will be the poor bunny carrying the last package.

I have been monitoring some real estate property sites and some properties are still not sold after 2 years?


could you give a specific example please.

lef... not sure what you want to know but i develop property in and around the tri city... prices are rising literally as you look at them...

... i buy anonse, which comes out on a wednesday morning, and i get up early to get it... good properties have often gone by the time i call up... which is early... dont even bother looking at the website becasue they cant keep it updated...

... a favourite is advertising a property for X59,OOO zl and then when you phone up the price has changed to X95,OOO zl... i have been gazumped a couple of times with offers over 5O,OOO zl above the asking price...

could you give an example of a house for sale ie land size, type of house and asking price?

dont know if your question is addressed to me or Janf...

i buy flats mainly because i dont need a permit to do so... but i recently put in an offer on a house - 3OO sqm, land - 8OOsqm with lake at the bottom of the garden in gdansk osowa... 25Ok zl... i made an apointment with the notary to sign documents, phoned up the vendor to tell he when and she had agreed to sell it to someone else for 3OOK zl... all this was over a period of about ten days

Sorry - only just picked up the thread again...

The property prices vary wildly dependent on the area . Especially where I am situated which is a tourist town/village in the Karkonoske mountains surrounded by small undeveloped hamlets. I am not sure what you are trying to find out.

As a very rough guide a small farmhouse suitable for a guesthouse (350sqm /1000sqm) is up for sale at about 200,000PLN (major renovation being required) whereas 2 miles up the road it would be triple that (at the very least).

I can help source all types of property in my area. Please contact me through the business pages.

I need some help for my friend who is going out to Poland shortly to look for property in the Olsztyn area. Does anyone know of any English speaking estate agents in that area?

Any help with buying a small flat in that area would be really helpful.

Ela...please read over this thread....plus check links etc.......

polishforums.com/archives/2008/real-estate-20/apartment-purchase-poland-2707/

Frank Thanks for the link it was really useful.

No problem Ela, can you keep us up to speed re your friends progress/ success?

There are a number of people on the board who have an interest in buying something, I hope they can all post their experiences on the thread listed above!

Please go easy on the free country bit. it's not that free! Buy a luxury flat in Warsaw and pay around 900 USD/month for 'maintenance'. Not counting the electrics, water etc. From Jan 1 tax on gains is I believe 19% if you sell before 5 years is up. Foriegners can buy flats but not a house or land. Buy a new flat and you will need a builder because all you get is the walls,doors and windows, the rest is all yours to do. Kitchen, bathroom, wardrobes etc etc. Generally this'll cost half as much as the original purchase. Yes foriegners have had a ball here due to escalating prices, but like in most parts of the world the law of gravity prevails. Oh yes and beware those low interest rates. There's no such thing as a free lunch as they say!

Hmm I like the stuff about the fat jobs you're gonna get in Poland with your degree and all! My son has two degrees Political science and International Relations gained at Warsaw Uni! Get a job in Poland? Hah! No way Jose he's now currently working his butt off in some dump in the USA and he has no intentions of ever coming back to Poland. Neither does he intend to stay in the land of the free either! I don't blame Poles for leaving as they've done for generations. Only now they get a chance to do it legally in Europe and not duck and dive in some Chicago enclave sweat shop! Or stand for hours to beg for their US visa. Unless Poland gets real and starts to pay the rate for the job they will continue to lose their brightest. That includes the doctors who are voting with their feet.

Unfortunately it's true. I have several genaration of labour migrants in my family. WHat could be the explanation?

We regarding the whole property buisness I have two flats in the Tri-city area, one I live in when in Polska and one currently being finished off and then to put out to rent.

I would not disagree that Poland is poorer than its Western EU cousins, however, the money is beginning to flow.
Firstly a huge number of young people have moved to the UK and Ireland, where they tend to work hard and SAVE. The majority of Polish people working in the UK I know, are buying [properties back home, specifically flats. Which is a major reason for the growth of property prices. YES, foreign investors are buying up lots of off-plan apartments in the major cities, but this is the same in most major European cities.

Secondly, the EU is pumping huge amounts of cash into the infrastructure of the country as well as Poland being the largest receipient of private investment.

To refer to Poland as third world is a little provocative. True in certain regions, especially the South West, life is more Ukrainian than European, but that will change.

If we look back to the development of Portugal and Ireland after EU accession, it is an upward trend, this pattern should be repeated in Poland.

Finally with regards to Poland being poor, yes it is but. There are a lot of wealthy Polish people, alot. I think many Polish hide their money, its a cash thing. They want to keep it from the Taxman and the government. If you own your own buisness you can do very well thank you. If you work for the state, well enough said.

P19...hes just testing the waters...seeing what sorta reception he gets.....lol.......grass greener on the other side of the electronic fence......:)

Ireland joined the EU at the same time as UK....1973......nothing happened for a long.......long time........then it was a gradual rise ealry ninties, then they attracted more EU funds , then a new 10% max corporation tax, then USA factories...then low interest rates....now ....no one can afford to live there!

Portugal joined much later......and what has happened them....or Greece or even Spain.......need to ask more questions...the Irish scenario is probably unique...something to aspire to....but duplicate....may be difficult !!!!!

No its Casper, thats cool, hes got alot going for him, and on his way to a good place!

Im glad to see him, maybe Another Ania and MikeC might come over. few others.

Spiritus hasnt been on as of late, wonder whats up .

Think about it! Why the Poles leave. In previous times it was a way of earning USD and keeping those dollars hidden away in a sacrosanct Poland bank account. The Poles always had money but nothing to spend it on. Unlike the Hungarians who had their rich neighbor Austria to come and buy. They had the goods but Hungarians had no money! My son did not go to the USA to live he rather wanted eventually to get a US passport. His plans do not take in residence there. Rather he wants to live in a warm country which can provide the kind of opportunity that he seeks. I rather spoiled him with a life of travel which he finds hard to break! I'm a Brit have lived in Poland with my Polish wife for around 18 years.

I've been screwed every which way in this country but as they say love is blind. We have a good life, no contact with other expats and neither want it! I first came to here in 87 long before the carpet baggers arrived. So I know the real story. Next the Poles are pretty adventurous. They'll try anything that's going and apart from their language difficulties in other lands they do quite well. The new generation unlike the older one I doubt if they actually want to die or be buried in Poland. So they'll find it much easier to leave and not come back! I know how I feel about living in the UK. Answer is no way so I can only imagine how Poles feel.

Casper, your post about Poland sounds quite sensible for me.

well said... why is it that so many londoners think that life doesnt get any better elsewhere...?

I don't normal in everyday life lose my self control, but on the internet you are powerless.
anyway, yup property and Poland.
Thing is I realise Poland has problems, but so does everywhere. I'm not wearing rose tinted spectacles with regards to life in poland. But everything is not doom and gloom.

Poland maybe a little stagnant politically, but it has a very good future.

There are positive and negative things like everythere.In many ways we are probbaly behind west europe but at least Poland is not so political correct like Uk- I don't feel free in UK at all- whatever say it is offensive,wrong.....or like this woman working in British Airways was dismissed for wearing little cross ????????

anyway I am buying flat in Krakow very soon and I am quite looking forward ...

Poland is currently one of the best places on earth for property investment. As for the sad case above, it seems that his financial accumen is as large as his net wealth. Net wealth being the medium by which he experiences life in Poland. " Poland is still a third world country"

Thank you Johnathan, how very gracious of you. Indeed my experience is born out of my net wealth, however, this does not mean my experience is irrelevant.

Firstly not everyone is a hotshot property developer running round with large amounts of investment cash. Infact the majority of people posting on this forum and others tend to be at the smaller end of the financial scheme. I be suprized if any large scale operations are even aware of such forums exist. And what purpose they would serve for them either?

Secondly with regards to Poland being a Third World, firstly that is incorrect. The EU would not, could not allow a Third World country to enter its federal State.

It may have aspects of the Third World, but so does the UK!!! And for that matter the USA.

If you could outline what a constitutes a Third World, a Second and a First, you would discover the criteria would not apply to Poland.

If you wish to be offensive please troll on ,if not, don't. Just join the discussion with your opinions.

Giles,

I had no intention of suggesting that Poland was a third world country. I was merely responding to a comment made above that indicated it was. (quotation marks)

As for the reference to "net wealth" it was also in relation to comments made by the very same person. If someone, who has lived in Poland, can only experience the country in such a negative way as to refer to it as a third world country. Then I take liberty to assume the individual's financial circumstances are some what dire. Hence, there is no reason to take seriously any investment advice from someone who experiences and understands Poland in such a way.

Poland is a second world sate...........anyone who says first is a clear fruit cake job, third world are African states. first world are obviously UK, USA, Germnay , japan ect

I think we should make our own Borat and laught at Brits.

"First World" refers to so called developed, capitalist, industrial countries, roughly, a bloc of countries aligned with the United States after word war II, with more or less common political and economic interests: North America, Western Europe, Japan and Australia.

"Second World" refers to the former communist-socialist, industrial states, (formerly the Eastern bloc, the territory and sphere of influence of the Union of Soviet Socialists Republic) today: Russia, Eastern Europe, Poland and some of the Turk States (e.g., Kazakhstan) as well as China.

"Third World" are all the other countries, today often used to roughly describe the developing countries of Africa, Asia and Latin America.
The term Third World includes as well capitalist (e.g., Venezuela) and communist (e.g., North Korea) countries as very rich (e.g., Saudi Arabia) and very poor (e.g., Mali) countries.

being able to walk into the kitchen... turn on the tap... pour a glass of cold water... and drink it... is a sign of a first world country...

but when it comes to people's quality,you would be far behind the african tribes.

especially with selfishness, indifference, greediness for money, jealousy......

the post above decsribes polish all bloody over lol. money being number 1