Hey Big Rob! I know, I like to complain too but only when it actually gets me something! Giving out about Polish property prices on a Forum...... I can see big changes coming! :)
I think every country in the EU can see prices changing. I think within the next 10 years, it will be Poland complaining more and more, but after that the tables will turn... Poland is right in the centre of the Map, Hell why did Germany want to take it... It's the cross roads to everywhere!
Thats such ********. Its thanks to all the foreigners that have come to Ireland that our economy is booming. Maybe you should try opening your mind a little?
Greg, I don't think Poland will ever become as multi-cultural as say the Uk. Poland will remain a homogenous nation. There will probably be some internal European migration into Poland, Brits, Germans, French, Dutch etc. But I doubt it will have the old colonial immigration that the Uk or other Western states have, because it doesn't have the historical precedents.
I must admit, I become a little irritated by nationalistic and protectionist attitude, specifically towards other Europeans, since we really are all one race. Our histories may be bitter but they are absolutely interlinked. Our futures are also very much interlinked and we have no choice but to work as a Union, to protect ourselves economically from the other entities, i.e. China and the US.
Remember Europe has spent the last 1000 years invading itself and causing horrendous bloodshed, the concept at the core of a European Union, is that never again would Europe plunge itself into another WWII.
I appreciate historical imperatives, but I also believe looking back and harbouring pent up feelings about the past damages nations, not to mention individuals.
The carnage and pointlessness of the conflict in Northern Ireland has riled me for years. This sectarian craziness has caused so much suffering as still the hatred seeths and bubbles below the surface. It represent a mini Europe, people who in essense are so similar tearing each others heads off for what, for history.
I'd like to buy a beautiful old traditional Polish bar and turn it into a London cockney theme pub, with everybody being forced to sing "roll out the barrel" and "down at the old bull and bush"
Polish history.......is quite frankly a bit of a nightmare...most it appears...to be self inflicted, from its grandeur of the 1500/1600s to a relatively poor, politically inept country of modern times.
It continually made poor decisions, bad judgements and ended up either on the wrong side or backed losers in recent centuries. So when wars came to be fought, scores to be settled, Poland has been the whipping boy on mainland Europe.........it appears to have learn nothing at all, judging by recent pronouncements and its government will continue in this vein for the forseeable future.........will things change?
I doubt it, at least not for some time. Poland is only relatively homogenous, not by choice but as result of the most horrendous war in history......no other reason.
Its time for change, real change..........buying land.?..so what..........!!!
Giles writes: 'But I doubt it [Poland - P.] will have the old colonial immigration that the Uk or other Western states have, because it doesn't have the historical precedents.'
You're wrong, giles. Poland has an ancient 'multicultural' tradition of this kind. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwelath, which was finally destroyed by Russiansd and Germans in the 18 th century, included a thousand and one nations: Poles, Germans, Ruthenians, Jews, Armenians, Tatars, French, Dutch, Scots, etc. There were some English too, e.g. the sect of the Arians (called in Polish 'Bracia Polscy,' the Polish Brothers).
You don't know Polish history too well, do you?
Read e.g. Norman Davies. 'God's Playground. A History of Poland.' Columbia University Press, 1982. It's a little perfunctory stuff, but full of essential facts, and extremely well-written.
Thanks for that. But I was kinda refering non-caucasian immigration, which I believe is what Greg was really questioning. Mabye I misunderstood his sentiments, but I believe this was the crux of his complaint.
But you are correct my Polish history isn't brilliant, another good reason for me using this forum.
If we want unity, we must remove prejudice and mistrust in all its forms. Which means we must accept people, and open our minds. Not just for the European, but also for any other people of the world.
Unity must be realised in its wholesome value. Otherwise a partial unity is nothing but another segment.
Polish history.......is quite frankly a bit of a nightmare...most it appears...to be self inflicted, from its grandeur of the 1500/1600s to a relatively poor, politically inept country of modern times.
Blimey... We not only did stop the German march towards the east in the 10th century but also managed to create an independent state in the 11th. More over, we did break the Teutonic supremacy and raised as one of the leading countries in this part of Europe for another 200 years in which we not only successfully protected our land from the powers like the Ottoman empire, Sweden or Russia, but also many times put them in defensive and won. Yeah, 18th and 19th century was a vegetation, but in the 20th we did managed to regain our independence TWICE, so surely, we must have done some proper decisions along the way Frank. :)
M...yes, true....but in the interim periods...your country/population has been ravaished like no other.......it seems to lurch from .....crises to good times to crises.....at the moment you are in period of change, Poland is still quite uncertain..........its trying to punch above its weight in an exclusive group, it needs to be careful............
If it concentrates on itself, builds bridges/alliances without offending too many countries it will be ok......sincerely hope so!
We dont want foreigners in Poland buying out our homes, go home english GO HOME and leave us alone. And dont tell me I didnt want you, Poles dont want you here bloody capitalists.
If we want unity, we must remove prejudice and mistrust in all its forms. Which means we must accept people, and open our minds. Not just for the European, but also for any other people of the world.
Unity must be realised in its wholesome value. Otherwise a partial unity is nothing but another segment.
oops sorry wasn't disagreeing or being prejudiced, just responding to the statements posed.
Frank, I wonder where did you take all the lowdown on Polish history from?
From some Prussian, Nazi, chauvinist Muscovite, or Zionist propaganda? :)
But let's analyse your posting bit by bit.
Re: 'Polish history.......is quite frankly a bit of a nightmare.' - Why exactly 'a nightmare'? What if it has only been presented as 'a nightmare' by Polonophobic pseudo-historians and propagandists?
Re: 'most it appears...to be self inflicted, from its grandeur of the 1500/1600s to a relatively poor, politically inept country of modern times.' - Do you mean that the historical calamities that befell Poland in the past were largely the work of Poles themselves? If so, give evidence it was the case. What if in reality it was Poland's aggressive neighbours, Russians and Germans, who, in cahouts with each other, invaded and partitioned the Polish state, and made sure it could not become strong again? And what if their 'historians' then vilified the defeated Poland, and historians from other countries, such as, maybe, yours, Frank, consciously or not, repeated those slurs? Aren't you blaming the victim and whitewashing the bully, Frank?
Re: 'It continually made poor decisions, bad judgements and ended up either on the wrong side or backed losers in recent centuries.' - Any facts to back these claims? For instance, what 'losers' did Poland allegedly back in the last century? Would you mean the British and Americans? If so, why would they be 'losers'? After all, they won both world wars, and Americans became the strongest (although not the greatest) power on earth, having taking advantage of the temporary weakness of the great British Empire. So, Frank?
Re: 'it appears to have learn nothing at all, judging by recent pronouncements' - Any facts to back this? What exactly was Poland supposed to have learned that, according to you, she hasn't? What specific 'recent pronouncements' do you base your judgement on? Do you have anything against the present Polish government, Frank? If yes, then what exactly would that be?
Re: 'and its government will continue in this vein for the forseeable future' - What exactlly 'vein' will the Polish government 'continue' in in the 'forseeable future,' Frank? And how do you know it will? Are you some kind of fortune teller? :)
Re: 'Poland is only relatively homogenous, not by choice but as result of the most horrendous war in history......no other reason.' - And what do you mean by that? Do you mean that we don't have so-called 'minorities'? If so, you'd mean untruth, because we have them in abundance: Germans, Vietnamese, Ukrainians (very impudent and aggressive), Belorussians, Lithuanians, scores of Jews (yes, Jews), Tatars, Russians, Armenians (the best of them all), Kashubs, Silesians....
These are facts, Frank.
But I wouldn't call so the data on which you have based your opinions on Poland.
We dont want foreigners in Poland buying out our homes, go home english GO HOME and leave us alone. And dont tell me I didnt want you, Poles dont want you here bloody capitalists.
Im not against anyone that is from other countries and i believe anyone can live anywhere they like as long as they have the legal documents and papers . I am very against ilegal people without proper legal papers !!!! Look how many countries are F u ck up because of the scum.
Puzzler........Poland did ide with Napoleon 1812, supplied 50000 troops......and pissed off the Russians since then, the main reason you country was so trashed by your great neighbours German/Russia, was to put your previous misjudgments to bed, plus a weak Poland was good for both countries.
Poland seemingly harboured (by original invitation to lots of religions) the very people Hitler took offence too.......the jews...and Poland for inviting them in, paid a very, very heavy price........true.....
Poland was expansionist too........so you are saying Poland has never done any wrong...esp to your "friendly" big neighbours....???????!!!!!
Plus Polish insistence of huge reparations didn't exactly turn out well did it...self-inflicted...short term gain, satisfaction of seeing a greater power than Poland done down...misjudgement.
A huge amount of your weakness stemed from the nobility continually undermining the rulers of your country and making Poland seem weak from the outside, easy to prey on....self inflicted....
The last 60 years don't seem like a nightmare........excuse me........
History has and will repeat itself.....
My argument is factual..........you just want to bury your head in the sand........not a nice place to be....
Wake up and smell the coffee.....
The original sentiment that Poland doesnt want or need foreigners buying "Polish" land is typical of certain attitudes......
Capitalism, may not be perfect.........but sure as hell beats communism.........or was Lech Walesa etc, all wrong?
non-caucasian immigration, which I believe is what Greg was really questioning.
Not really, any immigration.
Puzzler........Poland did ide with Napoleon 1812, supplied 50000 troops......and pissed off the Russians since then
Sorry Frank, but why are you spreading this bull.... again and again ? If you didn't notice Poland since 1795 didn't exist and one of 3 countries, which did that was Russia, so the same way you could blame Poles for fighting in the Battle for Britain and say that It "pissed off the Germans".
Capitalism, may not be perfect.........but sure as hell beats communism.........or was Lech Walesa etc, all wrong?
And what does It have in common with this issue ? Do foreigners may buy the land in Japan ? I doubt It, but It doesn't make them a commie country.
