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Russia and Poland possibility of the alliance


Ironside 49 | 10,377  
20 Apr 2009 /  #1
What do you think about an alliance with Russia?
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
20 Apr 2009 /  #2
First and foremost there should be friendly or at least neutral relationship established. No more mud throwing at each other both in media and political scene. As for more or less serious alliance it's hardly possible whilst Russia positions herself as a counterweight of NATO.

I'd love to see between Russia and Poland some like Russia and Greece scenario. Greece is in NATO but the relationship between both governments and people are perfect.
OP Ironside 49 | 10,377  
20 Apr 2009 /  #3
Well, thats a first step but I had in mind a real alliance between both countrys.
NATO would be useless to Poland allied with Russia.
I can see common interests which could have cemented said alliance but Im curious about Russian point of view.
what Russia can offer and what would expect from Poland in return?
Crow 139 | 8,172  
20 Apr 2009 /  #4
some future Poland which would be independant and with governmant that defend Polish national interests should do few things to correct overal image of Poland as major Slavic power and serious European player. Some priorities for future Poland:

1 - to abandon NATO pact
2 - to declare neutrality on current military alliances (balanced stance between world powers)
3 - to annul Kosovo recognition (Poland to strenghten Slavic element in the region and secure its interests on Balkan supporting Serbians which are opposition to German-Turkish expansionism)

4 - Poland to innitiate initiative for evolution of `Visegrad Group` into [for example] `Baltic-Balkan Group` which would in fact represent beggining of restoration of `Sarmatia Europae` as pollitical/geo-strategic reality.

For further eventualy closer relations with Russia, Poland should demand privileged acess to all Sibirian natural resources. Russia should not complicate things here.
OP Ironside 49 | 10,377  
20 Apr 2009 /  #5
That all very nice but you are Serbian not Russian and is not a game.
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
20 Apr 2009 /  #6
what Russia can offer and what would expect from Poland in return?

Since it's very hard for me even to imagine such a state of affairs, I would try to be very accurate with my prediction. I believe there will be something like we now have with Belorussia: relative mutual respect on governmental level, industrial and cultural cooperation, cheap gas so that people from Poland near Belorussia won't have to go there weekly for filling up their tanks and "Saakashvili chewing his tie on TV" in case anybody offend you. :))
McCoy 27 | 1,275  
20 Apr 2009 /  #7
something like we now have with Belorussia

no, thank you
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
20 Apr 2009 /  #8
What do you think about an alliance with Russia?

At the moment its not possible, apart from Polish Russophobia there's a very real fact that Russia has no political culture and is not a civilized state as we understand it, free thinking RUssians constitute a minuscule part of the society and the goverment is interested in dominance rather than dialogue.

An alliance with democratic Russia as a partner would be VERY welcome sadly Russia as it is is not fit for an alliance with anyone.

I believe there will be something like we now have with Belorussia:

Belarus is your dependency, Poland would never agree to such a relationship, i know Poland is smaller and weaker but Russia cannot treat countries as mere pawns to dominate and steer, untill the moment its accepted that these countries have freedom of course and it cannot be one given by Russia any sort of alliance or even friendly relationship is out of the question.
OP Ironside 49 | 10,377  
20 Apr 2009 /  #9
no, thank you

Why dont you go back to polish your....whatever

Im sure its only for starters after all Belorussia and Poland are different kettle of fish.
Harry  
20 Apr 2009 /  #10
What do you think about an alliance with Russia?

Not going to happen, not for the next hundred years or so anyway. To be very frank, right now it is probably slightly less likely than a Polish - Israeli alliance.
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
20 Apr 2009 /  #11
Unfortunately I have to agree with some posts above. I don't think Polish people or Poland needs an alliance with Russia in its current state. Not that I don't want it, I'm just being realistic. Belorussia is a different story. It's ex-USSR state and we're mutually dependent (for instance since the USSR times till present they've produced trucks for Russian "Topol" (the Poplar) mobile nuke complex), they're less developed at any spheres than Poland, after all they all speak Russian and largely own similar mentality.
Filios1 8 | 1,336  
20 Apr 2009 /  #12
than a Polish - Israeli alliance.

Difference is, a Polish-Russian alliance would actually be beneficial, whereas Polish-Israeli is entirely pointless. Why enrage the Arab world further by allying yourself, more or less symbolically with Israel?

What could Israel offer Poland?
What could Poland offer Israel?
Harry  
20 Apr 2009 /  #13
Why enrage the Arab world further by allying yourself, more or less symbolically with Israel?

Would certainly stop the immigration of muslims that so many Poles seem to be so obsessed with.

What could Israel offer Poland?

Seeing as Israel gets approximately 33% of all US foreign aid, Israel could divert a little of that $3 billion to Poland. And if anybody is going to be able to convince the US to drop visa restrictions on Poles, it'll be the Israeli government.

What could Poland offer Israel?

Lots of skilled workers who hate Muslims. And lots of workers in general. Plus many investment opportunities in Poland.

But do please note that I think that the chances of a Polish - Israeli alliance are about 0.000001%. It's just that the chances of a Polish - Russian alliance are about 0.0000001%.
McCoy 27 | 1,275  
20 Apr 2009 /  #14
What could Poland offer Israel?

dont worry about this part. im sure jews would come up with maaaany things (;
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
20 Apr 2009 /  #15
Seeing as Israel gets approximately 33% of all US foreign aid, Israel could divert a little of that $3 billion to Poland. And if anybody is going to be able to convince the US to drop visa restrictions on Poles, it'll be the Israeli government.

Israel has lots of beef with Russia and we dont need that, we dont need money that much either and Visas are not a serious strategic goal.

On the other hand we could lose the positive outlook that muslim countries have on Poland, we could get into an even bigger odds with Russia once Russia and Israel fall out again, also we'd get involved with Israeli demands for money for Holocaust and God knows what else, so no such an alliance is not beneficial for us.
Miru 1 | 24  
20 Apr 2009 /  #16
Poland has more economic and military ties with Israel than you think. In fact, we get more from them than from US. Good relations with Israel would definitely be beneficial for Poland (it IS a rich and influental country after all) however I agree that they would have to shut up about holocaust and that is rather unlikely. Especially since Poland has absolutely nothing to offer Israel.

Actually... Poland has nothing to offer ANYONE in terms of partnership. To powerful countries we're nothing more than pawns and we're too awesome for an allience with a week nation.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
20 Apr 2009 /  #17
Poland has more economic and military ties with Israel than you think.

The only military ties with Israel we have are SPIKE missiles.

In fact, we get more from them than from US.

No we dont, both our Oliver Perry frigates are from US, the bulk of our modern fighter aircraft are from US, our largest transport planes are from US, more than half of our special forces weaponry comes from US.

Good relations with Israel would definitely be beneficial for Poland

Good relations with any country are beneficial, but an alliance would not.

(it IS a rich and influental country after all)

Its on another hemisphere.

Especially since Poland has absolutely nothing to offer Israel.

Except money for their stuff, correct.

Actually... Poland has nothing to offer ANYONE in terms of partnership.

And thats when i lost my faith in you and labeled you an idiot, a country in the center of Europe through which 90% of all transitways come through, which is in position of political leverage towards its smaller neighbours who talk with it more readily than with Russia or the West has nothing to offer? Go read a book or a hundred.

To powerful countries we're nothing more than pawns and we're too awesome for an allience with a week nation.

Bullcrap, Lithuania despite its size was a weak nation and from the alliance one of the greatest European powers in living history emerged, and in politics everyone treats everyone else as pawn, regardless of size and power, a good example would be Israel treating US as its pawn despite huge disparity in power.
southern 75 | 7,096  
20 Apr 2009 /  #18
Greece is in NATO but the relationship between both governments and people are perfect.

Yes,Russians are always welcome in Greece.If there were not these stupid Shengen laws,hundreds of thousands of Russians would come each year to Greece for holidays and we are delighted to meet them.
Miru 1 | 24  
21 Apr 2009 /  #19
The only military ties with Israel we have are SPIKE missiles.

And reinforced armored vehicles, free granade launchers, drones, cooperation between GROM and Israeli special forces, also who do you think upgraded the damaged aircrafts we got from US?

a country in the center of Europe through which 90% of all transitways come through, which is in position of political leverage towards its smaller neighbours who talk with it more readily than with Russia or the West has nothing to offer?

Other countries couldn't care less that Poland didn't exist for 123 years and was ruled by Russia by the next 50. Last time I checked it was Russia and Germany that were considered world powers not Poland. The reason why our smaller neighbours are interested in us is because they know that we have no way to completely take advantage of them. I do agree that our geopolitical position is our advantage but it won't be enough until our economical situation get's better and that will take some time. Mexico is exactly between US and ALL South American countries and yet it's far from rich. Isn't it funny how Poland get's called 'Mexico of Europe'?

Besides Russia and Germany already found a way to trespass Poland.

Bullcrap, Lithuania despite its size was a weak nation and from the alliance one of the greatest European powers in living history emerged

Go ask a lithuanian what they think about that alliance. Also go ask anyone what they think about that 'greatest European power in living history'.

a good example would be Israel treating US as its pawn despite huge disparity in power.

I wonder why would US allow itself to be treaed like a pawn by a weak, unimportant nation.
Also read what Sasha said about Poland and Belarus - that's what world powers think of us (well... I dare say our position is a bit higher but then again I'm a hopeless optimist)
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
21 Apr 2009 /  #20
And reinforced armored vehicles,

MRAPs are American, Turs and Dziks are Polish, HMVVWs are American, Patrias are Norwegian, we do not get any armored vehicles from Israel.

free granade launchers

Please just stop, we're using mostly Warsaw Pact grenade launchers, underslung rifle launchers and pistol launchers are of domestic production.

drones

Sorry but all UAVs are domestically built and dont have even a single screw built, ordered or licensed from Israel.

also who do you think upgraded the damaged aircrafts we got from US?

Boeing subcontractor also they were never damaged, i suggest you stop reading Onet.pl for information.

Cooperation between GROM and Israeli special forces,

Grom was trained by British SAS with which it maintains a close professional relationship, except for routine joint operations that happen with any number of foreign special forces there's no specific cooperation between GROM and IDF specials.

Sorry to burst your buble but militarily speaking Israel cant really offer us that much, we have stronger military and technological ties with Ukraine, Germany, Norway, US, Israel just sells us SPIKEs.

Go ask a lithuanian what they think about that alliance. Also go ask anyone what they think about that 'greatest European power in living history'.

One of the greatest not the greatest, Lithuanias opinion of the alliance was soured by Willinus incident and by the fact that they've been showed as nothing short of auxillary during the battle of Grunwald which is the truth of the matter.

Other countries couldn't care less that Poland didn't exist for 123 years and was ruled by Russia by the next 50.

Quite the opposite, the Polish issue was a major deal of internal policies of all three countries not to mention that economical and political relations were of a completely different nature.

I wonder why would US allow itself to be treaed like a pawn by a weak, unimportant nation.

Because of powerfull Jewish lobbies, franshisement of Holocaust and Jewish lead diplomacy of anti-semit terror, being labeled an anti-semit can destroy people in US, this kind of pressure and controlling the media gives Jews an amount of power disproportionate to their actuall numbers in US.

Also read what Sasha said about Poland and Belarus - that's what world powers think of us (well... I dare say our position is a bit higher but then again I'm a hopeless optimist)

Correct, still Poland even weak and small is in position of significance due to its location, the real issue is who controls Poland.
Miru 1 | 24  
21 Apr 2009 /  #21
Oh, God, this is getting ridiculous. Very well then - go on believing your crazy conspiracy theories. Go on believing that the whole world revolves around the great polish ass.

Let me just ask you one think - if jews are so keen on detroying other countries, then how come America, France, Germany and Great Britain which have large jewish communities are not wastelands but rich, modern countries? How come no french, german or american person protests?
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
21 Apr 2009 /  #22
How come no french, german or american person protests?

But they do, the problem is that a significant part of the protesters are redneck anti-semites which takes away credibility from sensible people.

if jews are so keen on detroying other countries,

First of all there's no "Jews" there's certain organisations and circles within Jewish nation that receive popular support since Jews as ****** up as their culture and religion is are as we all basically good people and i doubt they'd support their leaders if they had knowledge of whats going around.
Miru 1 | 24  
21 Apr 2009 /  #23
significant part of the protesters are redneck anti-semites

You said it^^

basically good people and i doubt they'd support their leaders if they had knowledge of whats going around.

I may not agree with you in everything but with that sentence you significantly improved my opinion of you.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
23 Apr 2009 /  #24
We could create a state of Israel in Europe though, together with Russia we would settle our Jewish minorities in the Baltic, its completely uninhabitated:)))
derek trotter 10 | 203  
23 Apr 2009 /  #25
very interesting point Miru trying impose on minds of people, certainly the same as Gazeta Wyborcza do for almost 20 years to weak an average Grey bloke in Poland.

Saying that we have military support from Israel which is ********, spreading a lot of lies just like GROM - MOSSAD things, depreciation our European supporters and USA.

Andall this comes from a Polish Jew. Hmm
To sum this up
This is the way how a Polish Jews installed by Soviets after '45 on our governmental posts thanks us Poles for let them have a normal life on our soil for almost a half of millennium . What can we expect from them?

I hope that a pious ones, left Poland during '46-'50 for Israel, USA, Canada, South Africa, AU, NZ and the only ones who stay in a the traitors, soviet installed puppets.

There would be no regret for them in Poland.
PolishDude - | 22  
23 Apr 2009 /  #26
Russians never liked poles and I dont see how thats going to work out on the other hand, Russia and Germany are more pro-each other than Poland and Russia.. so.. if anything there will be a very strong German-Russian alliance in Europe soon.
Miru 1 | 24  
23 Apr 2009 /  #27
Andall this comes from a Polish Jew. Hmm

Huh? You don't mean me, do you? Because it just so happens that I'm not jewish.
paczka 1 | 63  
23 Apr 2009 /  #28
If overseas poles who`s dads immigrated in the 20-ies but still think of themselves as poles will not get a chance to vote then I am sure some kind of agreement between countries can be reached.

But if this people get chance to take part in the discussion - I am sure they'd rather die then co-operate with Russia. Go take a look at this forum's overseas poles.

Oh, and Kaczynsky, Tusk and their great team has to go as well, otherwise they will mess it all up.
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
23 Apr 2009 /  #29
Russians never liked poles

That's not true. See how many Polish people have been contributing to our culture, science... which means they have always been welcomed here (in Russia). Though historically tough relationship between our countries one can't deny.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
23 Apr 2009 /  #30
Russians never liked poles

Actually on the personal level Russians and Poles get along VERY well showing that there is something true about the "slavic soul".

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