What needs to happen in the world so that Poland and Russia form alliance?

The Slavs then lost little time on forcing others... like asking the Teutons to go and Christianise the Prussians and Lithuanians (the last pagan people in Europe).


Hypothetically (at least in the eyes of some right-wing Westerners) much of the Slavonic world DID abandon christianity in 20th Century because almost all the Slavonic countries were communist/socialist.

Of course we know it wasn't wholly the case, but...

You can't be serious? Give me one single proof of that.


If Poland needs to choose between Russia and Western Europe, it will choose Western Europe. That's obvious. But I think that Poland can have good relationships with both Russia and Western Europe.

And Western Europe has a much better relationship with Russia now than 30 years ago.

Poland become christian only to stop Germans from attacking it's western border, but then Germans said they are still pagans and attacks continue till WWII

communists in Poland never stop people from going to church and that was their down fall
as to having good relations with Russia and West will never happen Polish people think they are better then Russians and West thinks they are better then Poles as I said it comes from religion spreading it's poison through ages " go kill him he does not believe in Jesus so his live is not worth anything " with this mind set lot of good people lost their lives

I am going on 1 month language course in Moscow ...

I am going to see this country as long as I am planing to travel to St. Petersburg and some other cities outside the Moscow...

I am going to take some pictures ... and so on ...

I'll see myself this country ...

explain, speak more, please


allright. one example? Heres few...

transport mujaheedines by NATO and EU on Balkan, destruction of Yugoslavia, attack on Serbians, islamization and germanization of Balkan, etc, etc


why is that obvious?

western Europe is simple geographical term. West is something else. For many Serbs that i had opportunity to talk with Poland is the cradle of the Western civilization, last core of Sarmatia and elite of Slavija (togather with us Serbs). Serbs in general consider all Slavs as last natives of Europe and representatives of real West.

So, why would Poland neceserely choose western Europe- higly germanized and islamized??? Those abominable ways aren`t in Polish nature, to put cross on myself.


and what about Ukraine?

only Polish, Russian and Ukrainian alliance can save Slavija from advancing germanization and islamization.


divide and conquer concept

You always have situation that western Europe has batter corespondence with Russia then Poland. Then, they trade with Polish interests, while publicly defend Poland. In reality, western Europe dream of Slavic resources and assimilation of people and using Slavs against Slavs. Poland is something as `sanska koza` as Serbians used to say when somebody is constantly fu**** by others.

When are you going here? :) When you are here you may as well drop a line so that we can get together for a beer. ;) (in case you're interested)

Have a nice trip and enjoy Moscow (SP is a way better though), if need help with the language feel free to ask.

The main reason the German Order (Teutons) were in Prussia was because a Polish king invited them to come and have a crusade against the Prussians and Lithuanians. It gave them a foothold and they took full advantage and Germanicised the native Prussians.

Slavs, like many other races, have a history of being given Christianity and then attempting to use it to dominate others.

An American friend of mine once made a history professor in Skopje choke by asking, "Why are Kiril and Metodij seen as heroes?"

The teacher replied, "Because they were two Macedonians who brought Christianity to the Slavs"

"And who sent them?"

"They were sent from Constantinople"

"Oh, so two Slavs sell out their own people to the Greeks... and you make them heroes."

Professor (whispers) "OK, but I CAN'T say THAT!"


Because as a Catholic country Poland has always seen herself aligned to the West. The west also icludes non-Germanic France (with whom Poland historically has a long relationship- think Napoleon). Also, you seem to completely disregard the historical relationship between Russia and Poland in the last 200 years. It wasn't just a matter of a few mistakes in government.

Just as in the Balkans, many Slavs cannot say the word "Ottoman" without adding "500 years of Ottoman slavery", many Poles cannot say "Russia" without thinking of 50 years of Soviet oppression and murder (as well as whatever came before).

The worst treatment of Poles (genocide, ethic cleansing and totalitarian oppression) by the Russian were during communist times - that all for a common good :)! I don't see religion had much to do with it!

Or maybe you call Communism - a religion ?
I think that its your religion anyway - fool!

A Polish prince.


Just Prussians.


They were given lands actually.


Really? Prussian crusades were done mainly because the pissants wouldnt stop invading Polish duchies.

While Poland did conquer and dominate large swaths of todays Ukraine, Belarus and Russia it was done through cultural and military means, religion just piggybacked afterwards. Russia never crusaded either so i'm sorry while Slavs did conquer like everyone else unlike everyone else they were fairly tolerant when it comes to religion.


And thats what happens when buggersou post on the internet, i'm not insulting you, i'm just outlining that being uneducated you make a fool of yourself by making up little stories.

Ciril and Methody opposed German clergy in that they persisted in creating a Slavic version of Christian Church with intent of preserving Slavic culture which would otherwise in time be threatened by German missionaries, they also comprised the first uniform alphabet from many old Slavonic languages and you claim that a professor didnt know that and conceeded that:


If i know that than an educated academic will know that too, there's other reasons for them being incredible heroes for the Slavs but fvck you for making shyt up you troglodyte, there's google so dumb dumbs like you could learn, dont make stuff up in the future.

These two guys are responsible for the fact that we dont have German speaking Russia today.


Rubbish, Polish culture up untill XVI century was a mix of west, east and turkish influences, Poland was for most of its existence a central power completely different from both West and East, you could find people wearing German fashion, Polish clothes, Hungarian clothes, Russian ones, Poland was an extremely mixed state.

Serious westernization starts with the partitions when two Western countries get a large swath of Poland and Russian part starts building up the industry.

Also i'd stop convincing Crow, he's some kind of a troll, he just keeps repeating himself over and over like a schizophrenic energizer bunny.

- I firmly believe that couple of generations of people will have to pass... And even that doesn't guarantee anything.
History and its current Russian and Polish revisionism for its own use needs to end.
Russian imperatory appetite for smaller surrounding nations needs to end. By the way it always stunt me: why would you want to enslave countries you get nothing in return from?

Just for the land? You have plenty of space, being as large as you are, why would you want to rule in Poland? The best I came out with was: "...we're screwed, lets screw someone else, so they wont have it any better...".

Having said that, I don't believe Poland should ally, help or even get involved with anglo-saxon/semitic western order. Sit quite, smile and keep waving without committing to anything, work on its own commonwealth and partly trust only the small satellite nations around US: Hungarians, Czechs, Slovaks, Lithuanians, Estonians.

I'll accept that I am lumping all the northern crusades into one, which is perhaps not technically a correct thing to do. However, Crow seems to have little idea about the existence of a Prussia before it being a Slavic/Germanic region. he asked me to explain what I meant, so I explained (briefly and in little detail, I admit).


OK, my history is a bit leery there. Wasn't he actually a Duke?

Mieszko I had also tried to extand his lands in Prussia and then Boleslaw I sent missionaries, so they were already trying to christianise them. Why?

Crusade had also been some years preached BEFORE the Teutons were invited

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Crusade

Still, it was a Polish leader who invited them. Yes, it was because they kept attacking Duchies but might that not also be because they felt they were being encroached upon? The German Order were obviously allowed to go there under the idea of Christianising the Prussians (the Lithuanians came later, being the last pagan land in Europe).


Crow seemed not to know about Old Prussians.


I didn't say they did crusade (although I accept I may have given that idea) but certainly 19thC Russia was NOT that tolerant (under Nick 1) and suppressed other Christian churches as well as Jews


OK, firstly you ARE insulting me (and if you think being called a troglodyte isn't insulting, let me say it to your mother).

Secondly, I am not "making up" the story. The friend was a colleague of mine when I was working in the University of Skopje and told me the story at the time. He later went on to teach history in the university of Sofia and do a lot of serious research in the area. he was deliberately being antagonistic to the professor because of the political situation between Greece and Rep of Macedonia at the time (not as rosy as Crow's Greek/Serbian relationship).

The Macedonians claim C&M as being Slavs, specifically, Macedonians. The irony being that they were sent by the Greek church and modern greece is not exactly a friend of Rep of M. I suspect Crow got that point better than you might have.


Agreed, but that wasn't the point he was making.


Agreed. I have read too much patriotic Polish literature. I should have said "from 19th C".

I was just trying to persuade Crow of the problems with his idea of a Pan-Slavic dream. Similar to the type of drivel i hear about Pan-Celtic dreams (being part Scottish, I hear it a bit).

Now, as for all your other vitriolic bile, I suggest you go and take a little something for it... perhaps being Sokrates you could do with a dose of hemlock.

Ironside wrote " The worst treatment of Poles (genocide, ethic cleansing and totalitarian oppression) by the Russian were during communist times - that all for a common good :)! I don't see religion had much to do with it!

Or maybe you call Communism - a religion ?
I think that its your religion anyway - fool! "

yes communism was religion and no it was not the worst genocide by Russians how about German occuption how about 123 years of not having a country how about ethnic cleansing

done by Ukrainians during WWII
as to who is fool is some one that think there is some divine god and pray to it as if it was real

JulietEcho

Quite smart!

Ironside

Practically communism was a religion where you had to bow to genseks and party bigshots instead of the Lord.

Marek

Religion is not harmful as long as people don't want to use it as a bone of contention.

Communism was some schismatic form of the only Russian religion - blind chauvinism. I do not see big structural differences in dogmas of the red and white czars.

It's only Putin becoming brown shirt now.

Boria I'm glad you learnt "liberal" mantras by heart, too bad it never paints one as a smart one. For the better comprehension pls look up the word "chauvinism" and then name me at least one difference with the Polish society at that point. The comparison may be not in Polish favour really. Yes, Russians are sometimes too arrogant but no more than you. Rub your genuinely chauvinistic eyes and take a look at what you post yourself.

As for the adjective "blind" - I agree.

It's absolutely off topic, Sasha.
I do not try to compare Polish and Russian chauvinism.
I can only say the Russian one is more dangerous due to the rusty nukes you still have.

Is it? I reckon "blind chauvinism" with no further elaboration as an off-topic. Chauvinism more or less inheres in every single human being, so what the purpose for using words lightly?


Americans, Chinese... they've got nukes too. You could have them as well I guess. You had a choice and you made your choice... and I'm afraid I can't imagine Russians whining about Polish nukes (if they had any).

In case "Russia" rather more than less and it makes a common denominator for all shapes of the Russian statehood.
It's by far more than other European forms of nationalism I have met.

It springs directly from the old idea of the Russian "national mission",
be it uniting Slavs, be it creating universal (but Russian) values for all humanity, be it Tiutchev's vision of the "seven sees Russia".

It can be a cynical imperialism as we see in Mr Dugin's works.

I think we have a better chance of seeing God. A start to a more civil relationship may be for Russia to boot Putin and KGB mindset. Let the Russian people learn the full true history so we can move forward with a understanding of respect.

With that said I feel Russia must stop trying to point the finger at Poland for WW2 and see how silly they look. Sept. 15 Kresy-Siberia Virtual Museum takes flight. Kresy-Siberia.org please come read the truth.

At least you will not have a border with them :) Thread of another occupation will decrease.

I have not seen Kaliningrad but there are a lot of Russian ****** working in Turkey, maybe some of them from Kalliningrad.

Kaliningrad doesnt count anyway, for all intents and purposes we dont have a border that would threaten us.


One of the highest HIV rates in Russia (which is Africa-esque when AIDS is concerned anyway) and scrub poor, Russians are like a reverse working Midas, everything they touch turns into ruined crap.

Poland and Russia needs to be attacked by Germany then they will have alliance

I've get the whiff that Crowie wishes for such a catastrophe to happen, regardless to the suicide of half of Europe that would mean....just to satisfy his hate and nightmarish dreams...

If Europe works well (or even only peaceful) together there is not much "hope" for him and his vision. He wants/needs war and confrontation...a bloody war monger!

But gladly just a nutter on the margin...

God forbid! last what would i desire is war.

It is Germany with its friends from Islamic world and France, Britain and USA that insist on hostilities on Balkan and in general on European ground. It is NATO and EU that populating mujaheedines on Slavic ground, while seek to instal anti-missile shield in Poland. It is NATO and EU leaders that are involved in human organ extraction from Slavs, while demonize Serbs in media. It is NATO and EU that creating new Muslim states on suvereign Slavic ground, while trying to encircle Russia and isolate Poland. It is NATO and EU that force neo-colonialism on the world scene, while destroyed Yugoslavia and innitiated bloody Civil War on the south of Slavija. It was/is western Europe that imposed slavery on Slavic world.

i can be only proud to be Serbian, to be opposition to the evil that symbolize NATO and EU. Slavija is light, EU and NATO are darkness

True progress and safety Slavs would found only in Slavija. Only in Slavija, because Slavija is hope for Christianiaty, for the Europe, for all our stolen children and humiliated people.

Let us just hope that western parts of Europe and USA won`t innitiate another great war in order to prevent progres and liberation of Slavic world.

I am not wishing war but said that war will unite Poland and Russia otherwise there is too much hatred between them

" if Europe works well " that is funny statment it's like asking if cows could fly or if humanity work well to create word with no hunger, sickness, where everyone would be equal no mater what they look like or where there are born.

And what's so funny about it?

Right now it is quite okay already (compared to the past). Maybe cows can fly??? :)

For starters....all tsarist and Bolshevik territorial acquistions beyond ethnic Russian territory must be renounced by Moscow, and those regions must be allowed to return to theri mother-countries or go it alone as indpendent states. That includes the non-Russian republics and regions within the Russian Federation, the Trans-Dniestrian break-away region and the Caucasian states.

Properties confiscated by the Soviets including Polish noble estates must be returned to their rightful owners, and the Królewiec region should be divided between Poland and Lithuania. Poland must also be compensated for the Katyń massacre. Then maybe Polish-Russian relations could improve.

"it works great now" whatever
but do not forget about epidemics spreading around the world the hiv virus, the samolia starvation the pollution dump to ocean the racism in the world the global worming and on and on so no cows will never fly

Well...the question was that/if Europe works quite well right now.
Sorry for Somalia etc...maybe they will learn to work together someday too.

why you think we have Somalian pirates, I know it's not in the news but with little reading anyone can find why.
good thing that that Serbia, Croatia, Albania Bosnia is not in Europe How long ago was that
my point is greater then Europe, it's about helping all people as industrial nations to help every nation but you do not see this happening do you.