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Kaliningrad. Problem, Threat or Opportunity for Poland?


Mr Grunwald 23 | 1,661  
22 May 2009 /  #151
Okey then! From the long delayed return to the topic!

I agree with some other users statement that Kaliningrad a.k.a Russia should come up with economic deals or something so that Polish sailors and etc may travel there and back. There is also a slight possibility that maybe Poland annexes Kaliningrad while Russian military is still allowed to have bases there? THAT would turn very positive for the rocket base debate!
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
22 May 2009 /  #152
There is also a slight possibility that maybe Poland annexes Kaliningrad while Russian military is still allowed to have bases there? THAT would turn very positive for the rocket base debate!

Let's play big, man! Why not just pass rocket bases straight to the US?! That would finally resolve the debate. Then you may start renaming to state of Norway and tweaking your measuring system (this is not the worst case scenario though).
Mr Grunwald 23 | 1,661  
22 May 2009 /  #153
Are you mad? Passing them to USA? No, I thought of Poland owning area but letting Russia operate there military. This may gain trust in Russian eyes towards Poland!
dannyboy 18 | 248  
22 May 2009 /  #154
First, it seems bizzare that Poles should be making decisions as to the fate of Kaliningrad and its people.
Is it not a bit like Stalin & Churchill giving Lwow to Ukraine?
What authority does Poland have to do this?

Second, I don't understand why they should let Poland own the area. It makes the least possible sense.
The Poles are hostile toward Russia and pro-American/pro-Nato.
President Kennedy wasn't too pleased about Kruschev have missiles in Cuba, if you recall, lol.

Poland have absolutely zero rights and zero territorial claim over Kaliningrad.
Poland has failed to develop the vast territory it already does own.
If Kaliningrad were to be "given" to anyone, it should be given to a smaller country, with similar market and economic conditions, similar language, geographically linked etc. etc.

Third, its up to the people of Kaliningrad to decide what happens with Kaliningrad. Those whole topic is really becoming quite bizzare, lol.

What do you think the Americans would say if the Mexicans started discussing Texas and determining its future and why it should be given back to Mexico?

There happens to be 25 million Texans who speak English or Spanish and consider themselves strictly American, lol.

Also,
What about France "giving" French Guiana back to Brazil?
What about USA "giving" South Korea back to North Korea?
What about USA "giving" Alaska back to Russia?
What about UK "giving" Falklands back to Argentina?

Literally hundreds of examples of this, could be here all day

==========

Borrka, much better post this time, thanks for that.
I will respond this evening as I'm at work at the moment.
Mr Grunwald 23 | 1,661  
22 May 2009 /  #155
Well this is Kaliningrad, and I don't have any reasonable backup argument for this, it was just an idea. If it's all that hostile then forget about it
dannyboy 18 | 248  
22 May 2009 /  #156
Apologies, I didn't intend to come across as hostile mate.

Its just considering the Polish history and in particular with Eastern Poland/Western Ukraine, Poles should know better than to try to impose their will on another nation, or try to steal land.
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
22 May 2009 /  #157
Are you mad?

GIGO, bud. :) I was as serious as you were.

This may gain trust in Russian eyes towards Poland!

It's not about trust, Mr. Greenforest, it's about American wish-list. How didn't you figure that out yet?
gumishu 11 | 5,335  
22 May 2009 /  #158
well if the citizens of Kaliningrad oblast' wish to have things as they are what is the problem

btw I find it nice to have a direct border with Russian Federation no matter how not so much Russian history the area has. it just gives more flavour

perheps the custom police would disagree though

btw do citizens of the area have any say as to their future

or is held in fast grip of some military originated 'mafias'
Crow 139 | 8,280  
25 May 2009 /  #159
OK, that does it. You're on ignore from now on, you self-righteous prick.

don`t be crazy. Let`s fun
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
25 May 2009 /  #160
Crow, the fact is that Poles are devout Catholics and thus favour Croatia. There are many ties with Serbia, yes, but many Poles would favour Croats on the basis of religion alone. One Belarussian student in my class didn't want to discuss religion as she was prawo-sławny like the Serbs are. That's just the way it is.
Ironside 49 | 10,462  
25 May 2009 /  #161
First, it seems bizzare that Poles should be making decisions as to the fate of Kaliningrad and its people.

to whom?

Poland have absolutely zero rights ... over Kaliningrad.

well, it's part of historic Prussia dependent of Polish Kingdom!

Poland has failed to develop the vast territory it already does own.

Look who is saying it.
I appreciate that you are straightforward and honest in your views but I cannot help notice that you came from the Republic.
Country which only in the late 90s became known for it's economy due to the fact of massive E investment.
In the 60s, 70s and 80s your countryman were emigrating for work mostly to USA(illegals).
And you had no wars and have independent country for 98 years, considering that Poland was the most ruined country by the war and then communism, and have regained independence only 20 years ago, I don't think you are entitle to make a such remarks.

Think Ireland in 1941 and then you can compare .....to Poland !
Anther thought, no offense meant, when you speak about Poland as a Easter European country is OK but then came to my mind that Ireland as a Western country until recently had been (comparing to neighbors) such economical backwater - it's optimistic for others!
Nathan 18 | 1,363  
26 May 2009 /  #162
Harry May 20, 09, 20:47#154

Sokrates:
There is no justification for genocide, you had superior military might, you could and should have excersized restraint while sorting out the region, as for Chechenya Russia has absolutely no right to be there and everything it does in there is evil and wrong.
Today must be a cold day in hell, I've just completely agreed with Sokrates!

It is not a cold day up there, it is just whatever he said is a truth. I also wanted to say that about Sokrates, but he is completely right on the issue about Chechnia and Russia.
Crow 139 | 8,280  
26 May 2009 /  #163
Crow, the fact is that Poles are devout Catholics and thus favour Croatia. There are many ties with Serbia, yes, but many Poles would favour Croats on the basis of religion alone.

Still, only Serbs (Orthodox) are in Polish history known as Racowie. Non on this Earth didn`t made bigger impact on Polish culture and military tradition then that of Serbians.

When Serbians gave/giving something to Poles they don`t taking in consideration Catholicism/Orthodoxy, no matter that Serbs are aware of strong Polish Catholicism.

On the other side, Croats ***** Poles only because they share Catholicism with them.

So, i do believe, in bottom of their beings Poles favour Croats... but something what can be undesrtand as love, goes only to the Serbians.

enough said

NOTE: ***** in above sentence goes because i don`t know what Croats feel for Poles. For one, its not love because Croats feel love only for Germans. So, what is it, i don`t know. Maybe Croats feel sory for Poles because Poles resist to Germans while Croats are so completely germanized. Croats maybe feel that Poles aren`t true Catholics if Catholicism in Poles isn`t connected with love for Germans. Its maybe twisted Croatian sense for Catholicism thanks to German schemes (manipulation with religion- Vatican for their selfish goals) in the region. Anyway, i`m not sure so i just said *****
Ironside 49 | 10,462  
26 May 2009 /  #164
There is sympathy for Serbs but I would not overestimate it.
Crow 139 | 8,280  
26 May 2009 /  #165
nor overestimate it, nor underestimate

the other question is... could that love for Serbians be strong enough to innitiate rebbelion, against NATO for example?

in this moment, of course not. So, you see. That love has its obvious limitations and those limitations are conditioned with different things. Bigger pride, bigger love for Serbs. Less pride, less love for Serbs. More humiliations Poles received from so called west, stronger love for Serbs. Less humiliations Poles receive, less they think of Serbs. More money Poland receive from EU, less Poland thinking about Serbians. Less money Poland receive, more thoughts about Serbs. Etc...
Torq 32 | 2,897  
26 May 2009 /  #166
Poles would favour Croats on the basis of religion alone.

Erm... not really.

(click to enlarge)

Notice the shape that those c*nts formed.

There's too much nazi nostalgia in Croats for Poles to like them too much (even the
visiting Germans are sometimes embarrassed when Croats enthusiastically welcome
them with a raised arm and a nazi "Heil!" greeting).

Also you need to consider the role of Croatia in the fall of Yugoslavia - a great
southern Slavic country and a thorn in the German eye ( and remember the hit
song of 1991, when Croatia began driving out Serbs, was "Danke Deutschland"
in gratitude to Germany's strong diplomatic support for Zagreb's unnegotiated secession.)

Croatien? Nein, danke.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
26 May 2009 /  #167
OK, Poles would favour Poles then ;) ;) (and even then sometimes not) ;)

Ignore the football fans, Torq. They make up a small part of things.
Torq 32 | 2,897  
26 May 2009 /  #168
OK, Poles would favour Poles...

...and Hungarians - don't forget our Magyar friends, Seanus :)

I also don't mind Lithuanians, Belorussians, Sorbs and Ukrainians as long
as they are willing to rejoin the Polish Commonwealth ;)
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
26 May 2009 /  #169
Sorbs? Don't you mean Serbs? They won't rejoin the Polish Commonwealth ;)
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423  
26 May 2009 /  #170
Croatien? Nein, danke.

They still don't let us win at football games....ungrateful bastards! :(
Torq 32 | 2,897  
26 May 2009 /  #171
Sorbs? Don't you mean Serbs?

"Sorbs - a western Slavonic people in Germany, numbering about 40,000-45,000. They live mainly in Saxony and have been in the region since the 6th century AD, though numbers have dwindled with assimilation. When East Germany was a separate state, the Sorb language had official status. There is a small separatist movement for an independent Sorb state of Lusatia. This was the name of Sorb-inhabited territory prior to 1835, when it was divided between Saxony and Prussia."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbs
runjewonline.info
rastko.rs/rastko-lu/o/index_l.html
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423  
26 May 2009 /  #172
In a population of barely 50.000...what number counts for "small separatist movement"? 10???
Torq 32 | 2,897  
26 May 2009 /  #173
No, you got it all wrong. The separatist movement has about 50,000 members
and there's about 55-60 million Sorbs in Germany, but they are so germanized
thay they don't even realize their Slavic roots. Ask Crow.

Oh! uhoh

Yeah! Berlin, Leipzig, Cottbus, Lubeck - all Polish cities! Also Pankow, Kathlow,
Buckow or Prignitz - are all remnants of Slavic Wieleci and Obodryci tribes
that were either exterminated or assimilated by Germans.

After the war, there was a Polish antropologist and politician, Karol Stojanowski,
who advocated the creation of a 3 million Lusatian state and re-slavicization
of their lands. For some reason his suggestions were not considered properly.

Anyways - give us back our lebensraum, bastards! LOL
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423  
26 May 2009 /  #174
But...but...but...leave me a town or two, would you! :)

re-slavicization

What tongue twister!
Torq 32 | 2,897  
26 May 2009 /  #175
What tongue twister!

You better get used to tongue twisters, my germanized Polish brother.
Now, repeat quickly: "w czasie suszy szosa sucha", "w Strzebrzeszynie
chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie". :)
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423  
26 May 2009 /  #176
"w czasie suszy szosa sucha", "w Strzebrzeszynie
chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie". :

...I tried...I really tried...my monitor got wet...

What did I just tried to say? Something perverse I hope! :):):)
Torq 32 | 2,897  
26 May 2009 /  #177
What did I just tried to say? Something perverse I hope!

Not really. These are just two popular Polish tongue twisters.
The first means "during the drought the road is dry" and the
second "in Strzebrzeszyn a beetle sounds in the reed" :)
Crow 139 | 8,280  
26 May 2009 /  #178
Strzebrzeszynie

is it SREBRENICA on Polish?

Did you heard for Ratko- slayer of mujaheedines?

among mujas Ratko was known as `torturer of Alah`s hopes`
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
26 May 2009 /  #179
There was more than a beetle in the reeds in Srebrenica :(
Crow 139 | 8,280  
26 May 2009 /  #180
~blanc face~

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