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Kaliningrad. Problem, Threat or Opportunity for Poland?


z_darius 14 | 3,968  
1 May 2009 /  #91
I have found them to be racist and xenophobic,

Czechs and Slovaks are by far the most Western European slavic nation, the mort progressive, most open

Interesting comments from a xenophobe ;)

I utterly detest Romany gypsies

dannyboy 18 | 248  
2 May 2009 /  #92
I make no secret of my hatred for Romany Gypsies.
I despise them.
They come to this country to steal, to beg and to live off of us.
They never contribute anything to society.
If they approach me on the streets, I tell them go back to their own country..... I am neither violent nor aggressive, but I am assertive, and I tell them to go back to Romania.

They won't do this of course, unless the Irish government pay them, as they did in 2007 i.e. extorted money in order to return to Romania.

I don't work in nightclubs anymore, I became tired of it but when I used to, I often did this.
I was tired of seeing them indiscriminately rob Irish, English, Polish, Lithuanian, American, African, whoever...
It is normal for all doormen and many of the regular people on the street to shout abuse at them when the see them.

At first, I was idealistic, I thought they should be treated no differently than anyone else because of their dress or their beliefs.
Then of course, I saw the reality and learned why they so adequately deserve the reputation they have garnered.

I wouldn't expect you to understand and I'm sure I've already invoked Godwin's law and you already have already labelled me a fascist.

But I'm confident that when you visit this country or the UK, then then you yourself will begin to understand, and until then you will be forming opinions on issues of which you have no knowledge or experience.

Lets ignore the credit card scams and the bank machine card copying, I have seen a number of things done by Romany gypsies which genuinely shocked me.

I have seen them rob the homeless & the people who have nothing on the coldest winter nights.
I saw them rob a man who was hit by a car & later died, not concerned with calling an ambulance, simply in relieving him of his posessions.

I have seen them rob mobile phones from young boys and girls who learn to hate them from an early age.

My opinion is that anyone who wants to come to this country and this society to work and to contribute, should be allowed to do so, regardless of their religion, their skin colour or their nationality.

I have yet to see a Romany Gypsy contribute anything other than misery.
They are a plague upon us.

Lastly, I suggest you speak to a Romanian citizen about Romany Gypsies.
They are by far the most vehement in their hatred of the Romany Gypsies.
People see the Romany Gypsies on the street and immediately associate them with Romania.
Would it surprise you to learn that many Romanian people are ashamed to admit their nationality when they come to this country?

This one truly is a gem. :)

Still, thank you for the time you spent writing this essay. It was an interesting read.

I assume you know the image of the Polish guy I'm speaking of.
The young 'blokars'/'kilar'/'biznezmen'.
Wearing their hoodies and their leather jackets.
Their chains.
All driving in black Bmws or Audis, with the windows tinted black.
Often drunk or on amphetamines.
Selling jobs, taking protection money from other Poles, selling cigarettes and doing 'Biznez' i.e. making profit from friends.
In truth you hear them long before you see them - the string of 'Kurwa', 'jebana sukiensyn' etc. etc.
These guys manage to use the word Kurwa as a verb, noun, adjective, adverb, preposition, conjuction etc. etc.
The most aggrivating thing is the Polish favour system - this drove me to the brink of insanity. Polish guys always wanting favours, but never paying them back, or else trying to make a profit from you if they do pay you back.

.....this is not to say all Polish people are like this - far from it.
Many Polish women are among the most decent human beings I have encountered.
In truth, many Polish men don't deserve the women they have. But many of the Polish men who came to this country in the begining, 2004, were the genuine lowlifes who weren't wanted in Poland.

The one thing that struck me unlike any other country was the difference between the Polish in Ireland and the Poles in Poland.
The Poles in Poland were some of the nicest, genuine, decent people I ever had the pleasure to meet.
The Poles in Ireland were .............sharks.

Of course, things changed, after 2004 we had many good Poles arrive.
Many of the bad ones have moved on, because they have used up the good will or their lies are no longer believed.
But still, this crisscrossed American/Russian gangster seems to persist among young Polish guys.

I spoke about this to my ex-girlfriends father and brother.
They told me in simple terms:
These guys are from deep, dark villages - they have probably never seen money before, they come here, they get a job, they finally have money and they don't know how to behave.

They make me ill, lol.

Poland is an amazing country, with an amazing history and one of the toughest breeds of people in the world. I just find it a shame that these guys disguise their identity so much and are so superficial, that they are almost ashamed of being Polish.

Instead they adpot the faux Italian/Russia Gangster with a dash of Eminem thrown in.
(before anyone tries to say this is like any other country - its not!)

Lord spare me!

Russians and Poles prefer the same places for vaccations,drink the same and leave the same impressions.Overall they strive for comfort.The Russians do the same things like the Poles and share common views they are just more primitive and direct while Poles are obviously more europeanised.

What makes you believe that Russian people are primitive?
If you are referring to the villagers in Central Asia, then I guess some of them could be.

But if you have met a Muscovite for example, I often think Irish people are primitive in comparison to the Russians.
In Moscow, you need a degree just to work in a sweet shop, lol.

St.Petersburg, incredible history/architecture, highly educated and cultured people.

I have to disagree with this comment:
"Russians and Poles prefer the same places for vaccations,drink the same and leave the same impressions."

I can't speak for Poland now as I don't have much contact with the nation anymore, other than my friends here, but many of the Poles in Ireland and the UK visit the same destinations as us. The only barriers are economic.

Personally, I don't drink alcohol, but I worked as a bouncer for many years so I have a pretty good idea about this country.

Poles generally don't like to go to pubs/nightclubs in this country.
They prefer to go to house parties and drink/use drugs in the company of other Poles.

It is quite rare to see a Polish man drinking in a pub, however, they frequently buy large amounts of the cheapest beer. That is not an criticisim by the way, just an observation.

I woudn't think to criticise Polish men for not wanting to participate in Irish night life.
There is a massive difference in Polish and Irish nightlife, everything from opening times to closing times and all that goes in between.

Many women are way of Polish men because so many of them were lying about being married and were having affairs here.
Polish women do go out from time to time, but other in the company of other females.
It is quite rare to see a Polish men and women together in a venue unless it is a social even for their job or something.

I hope I'm not coming across as derogatory to Polish men here, I don't intend to be.
I am simply sharing my experiences.
I have seen a number of good Polish friends get used by Polish women. Often they are treated as commodities. Some of them can be quite cold hearted and use men as ladders, jumping from one ladder to a better ladder when they see an opportunity to climb higher.

dannyboy may I ask you a simple question:
What is your knowledge of Russians based on ?

As for me you're totally missing the point with your rather superficial opinions.
I'll say more .
You don't understand them at all.

My partner is Russian, as are her family.
I speak the Russian language reasonably well, I have visited the country and met a great number of Russian people and former Soviet Satellites.
Russians, Lithuanians and Poles living in Ireland are among some of my best friends.
I have travelled throughout Eastern Europe, but most heavily in Poland, Lithuania and Russia.

I used to speak Polish quite well, but have forgotten a large portion now as its not very useful outside of Poland and many Polish friends have left Ireland during the economic crisis.

Russian is an extremely useful language and somewhat easier to learn than Polish, as it is more standardised. All international languages have to be standarised for non-natives to learn.

You may label my opinions as superficial if you wish, I don't mind. I'm simply sharing my experiences which I believe to be the truth.

As for the point which I have missed, what point is that?
I haven't seen you offer any points to be refuted, not even conjecture, so I'm not quite sure it is what I am supposed to be missing.

I know it is often a bitter pill for the uber-patriotic North Korean.......sorry, I mean uber-patriotic Poles to swallow. That is the bitter pill of truth that they are not the greatest people on the planet, and that other nations and other cultures also have many admirable qualities and triumphs.

All I have seen you offer is simply mildly offensive stereotype about 70% of Russians being pro-communist and drinking vodka on October days in their summer houses.

I believe it is actually you who is likely ignorant of the truth.
(Also for your information, somewhat ironically, many of the Poles I met in Central Poland commented to me that they missed the communist times when life was easier and they had a 13th paycheck at Xmas and there was less crime etc.

In constrast, only a small portion of the Russians have wished for the old communist days back, as they offset of financial trouble would not be compensated adequately by the loss of liberties)

Believe me, I used to share these opinions of the Russians in the old days, when my only opinions were obtained from Poles.
But then a funny thing happened.......I grew up.

Many years ago, I used to believe the English were demons with horns..........and now funnily enough, probably my favourite people on the planet are English.

Because I got out there and met English people, I rejected the propaganda and saw what fantastic people the English really are.

Times change and people move on.
It is your job to sift through the propaganda and discover the truth.
If you take your opinions from magazines and gym locker talk and biased media & political commentary, you will never know who you hate or why you hate them.

You will simply recite generalised abstract nonsense, with no experience of your own.

The only way to do this is. Get out there and meet people of the nationality it is you claim are so bad.

Lastly, allow me to return the question:
What is your knowledge of Russians based on ?

Hmm, they still think that western europeans are more cultured and progressive... is it true? What is the components of their "culture"? Why these descendants of slave-holders still flatters themselves, without sense of shame they are more cultural?

Western European does not equal 'more cultured'.
Allow me to simplify.

I defy anyone to visit Prague or Budapest and then tell me that Warsaw or Vilnius or Riga are more highly cultured.
Prague is quite a fascinating place with an atmosphere not unlike Rome.

Personally, I love Warsaw, but it could never equal Prague.
The only place in Poland that comes close (of which I am aware) is Krakow in the summer & possibly Zakopane during the high season - incredible atmosphere.

The Western European implication only intended to imply that they are the most Western European of the Slavic community.

I doubt anyone could argue they are the most progressive.
Poland is still locked in a power struggle, as are many of the larger countries.

My comment as regards progressive was in technical excellence.
I have heard a million sob stories from Poles about how highly skilled they are, the best in Europe etc. etc.
Or I often heard how over-qualified so many of the Poles were, yet when I learned to speak their language, their friends will laugh at the lies they told.

The reality is that many of these guys claim to have degrees coming out their arses when they are in this country because they are inexplicably ashamed of whatever it is they do, yet when they are back in Poland, many of them admit the truth that they no qualifications.

To be fair, this is likely a characteristic of the immigrant society as opposed to Polish society as a whole.
In my office, there are 9 Eastern European workers in high skilled software jobs and exactly 0 of them are Polish.

If these guys ears worked as well as their mouths, they may start to get somewhere.
Borrka 37 | 594  
2 May 2009 /  #93
The only way to do this is. Get out there and meet people of the nationality it is you claim are so bad.

Dannyboy you are like European saying all Africans are similar because they are all black.
And my point is we and Russians are very different people despite of some (mostly) superficial similarities.

Obviously you don't understand we're joking in many cases.
Your knowledge of Russo-Polish relations is insufficient to get the joke.
Or my English is that bad.

I'm leaving now so do not have enough time to comment your "lecture" but I will do it ASAP.

Only one answer now.

As a teenager I used to read Dostoyevski in Russian.
When I was 12 I visited CCCP for the first and the last time.
It was kinda my first fascination with Russian culture.

After CCCP-collapse I was travelling for business in Russia and former soviet republics.
My Russian is close to the native speaker level but still with some accent.
I don't have any Russian family what makes my views free of emotional reactions.
Actually I can only laugh about cases I know personally:
Russians giving their West-European partners very biased picture of Russia LOL.
Crow 139 | 8,280  
2 May 2009 /  #94
Kaliningrad. Problem, Threat or Opportunity?

i see Kaliningrad as opportunity for Poland to escape from EU Empire and to become closer with Russia
OP ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
2 May 2009 /  #95
I make no secret of my hatred for Romany Gypsies.

Basically I agree with you. Here in Russia we have even worse sort of gypsies, Central Asian. It's amaizing how these human beings can be devoided of even humble human dignities... animals, just animals.
dannyboy 18 | 248  
2 May 2009 /  #96
Dannyboy you are like European saying all Africans are similar because they are all black.
And my point is we and Russians are very different people despite of some (mostly) superficial similarities.

Borrka, I'm not sure as to the level of your proficiency in English, but if you concluded that my point was that Polish & Russian people are one and the same, then you have badly misinterpreted everything I have written.

I suggest you revise my comments - starting with the point where I correlated the superficial similarities of Dutch & German with Polish & Russian, only in order to refute it.

Obviously you don't understand we're joking in many cases.
Your knowledge of Russo-Polish relations is insufficient to get the joke.
Or my English is that bad.

I'm not sure as to where you were joking or what the joke is.
Regardless, your 'jokes' are simply stereotypes, which some Russians may find offensive.
Personally, I don't find them offensive as I don't believe in Nationalisim, I believe in individualisim, but I do find them irrational and somewhat pointless.

If you fail yet to comprehend why some Russians may dislike you, yet you persist with those opinions, then you should be empathic enough to reverse the situation and imagine that a Russian person is claiming that 70% of Poles are alcoholic, car thieves who eat sausages and drink everyday before noon.

Both you and I knew this is a nonsensical stereotype, so why allow it to subsist.

Many of my friends were frustrated with the opinions that Westerners had about their country, especially after Kaczynski made his remarks at the conference with Tony Blair about all emmigrant Poles being 'life failures, toilet cleaners' etc.

This was at the same conference where he made the highly controversial comments about homosexuals if you recall, prior to Tusk.

Perhaps the most poigniant issue is that the lies and misconceptions which you have re-iterated here about Russia and Russians, are precisely the same misconceptions which many Western Europeans hold about Poland.

If you knew how many times I had to fight ignorance and stereotypes about Eastern Europe. How many times I had to explain to people that Poles have electricity, computers, they live in houses and not caves, they are highly educated etc. etc. etc......

You probably believe from this forum that all Westerners know Poland is a civilised country. This is because all people who come to this forum have an interest in Poland, such as a business or a girlfriend.

But that is only a tiny percentage of the population.

In reality, many of the older generations in the West would have difficulty to point out Poland on a map, & they imagine parts of Poland to resemble a picture similar to what you would see in Stalingrad in WW2, or else to the Red Square in Moscow.

Many people can barely discern the difference between Poles & Russians, other than the fact that the Russians tend to be more orderly and quiet, and Poles are louder and more excitable (and their 'Kurwa' siren).

I'm leaving now so do not have enough time to comment your "lecture" but I will do it ASAP.

I don't understand why you are leaving the conversation, you haven't yet offered anything for discussion.
I would like to know where you developed your opinions on Russia and Russians?
Why do you perceive Kaliningrad to be a threat?

You may call it a lecture if you wish.
As I stated, I was just sharing my experiences based on reality, rather than opinions obtained from biased propaganda or an opinion shaped by mistrust, hatred or jealousy.

Only one answer now.
As a teenager I used to read Dostoyevski in Russian.
When I was 12 I visited CCCP for the first and the last time.
It was kinda my first fascination with Russian culture.

After CCCP-collapse I was travelling for business in Russia and former soviet republics.
My Russian is close to the native speaker level but still with some accent.
I don't have any Russian family what makes my views free of emotional reactions.
Actually I can only laugh about cases I know personally:
Russians giving their West-European partners very biased picture of Russia LOL.

First, I should clarify that I don't take any personal offence to comments about Russians or Russia, and especially not because my partner is Russian.

My sole aim is to tackle some of the frequent lies and generalisations I hear spouted on a regular basis, frequently by people who really don't know what they are talking about.

Is it true to say that all Russians are warm, friendly, non-politicised, non-militant individuals?
No, of course not. But the vast majority of those I have met would be.

Many of the Poles I met had a deep set hatred in Russia, but didn't know why.
Ironically, these were the young people who neither spoke Russian nor had ever visited the country.
As a matter of fact, many of the older generation were beyond hatred, and were simply apathetic. They had a severe dislike of Germany however.

I am confused by your final comment I'm afraid.
The Poles are notorious for their euphemisims and romanticisim about Poland, it is well known that Poles believe they are the political centre of the Universe, as opposed to simply desiring to be so.

However, the Russians frequently have been and occassionally still are. Not in the same manner as the United States is today, but they were one of the two world powers for over half a century.

Perhaps it is jealousy on behalf of many Poles?

In closing, as I have clearly elaborated, my opinions haven't been acquired from another individual, especially my partner (in truth I hate to hear her talk about Russia, as my former Polish gilfriend practically used to write Poetry about how fantastic Poland was - so I have developed a potent dislike of such romanticisim)

My opinions are based on personal experiences, with my own eyes, my own feet and my own body.
southern 75 | 7,096  
3 May 2009 /  #97
they live in houses and not caves

OK,OK.
dannyboy 18 | 248  
4 May 2009 /  #98
Southern, this is the truth :)

I had to explain to a group of people that Poles have computers and houses.
They believed that the Poles lived in caves because they didn't have money to build houses.

Many people are completely ignorant of Poland and still believe the propaganda from the Cold War.
Borrka 37 | 594  
7 May 2009 /  #99
I suggest you revise my comments - starting with the point where I correlated the superficial similarities of Dutch & German with Polish & Russian, only in order to refute it.

So you're trying to show differences between Poles and Russians using as an analogy these two probably most similar European ethnoses lol?

Dutchmen and (Northern) Germans are both Germanic, they share not only Protestant background but the same historical development, same democratic values and social system and ideology.

Their languages are by far closer than Polish and Russian (I mean so called Plattdeutsch).

On the contrary Poles are Catholic and Russians Orthodox what has heavily influenced their mentality.
Russia used to be semi-Asiatic dictatorship and Poland semi-democratic republic.

Russians tend to live in collectives driven by herd instinct lol.
Poles are sick individualists prone to anarchy.

Russian patriotism equals chauvinism, majority of Poles know some short lived zeal only.

I could continue but obviously you've got your own picture ready ... something like saying
"Poles believe they are the political centre of the Universe" or even better
"Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians are somewhat closer to the Russian mentality".

No offence but you know too much and not enough at the same time to understand East-Europeans.
Maybe it's better to belive we are stone age creatures like some West-Europeans do ?
At least I feel free to call them morons lol.
Salomon 2 | 436  
7 May 2009 /  #100
Well ... it seems that after Sikorski visit in Moscow some issues concerning Kalinigrad are going to be solved.
dannyboy 18 | 248  
13 May 2009 /  #101
So you're trying to show differences between Poles and Russians using as an analogy these two probably most similar European ethnoses lol?

Dutchmen and (Northern) Germans are both Germanic, they share not only Protestant background but the same historical development, same democratic values and social system and ideology.
Their languages are by far closer than Polish and Russian (I mean so called Plattdeutsch).

You still missed my point, but anyway............

Dutch is Low Franconian as opposed to Modern German.
Same Family, different Branch.
Same situation as Western Slavic Polish & Eastern Slavic Russian.
Same Family, different Branch.

I speak German (not very well anymore) and I cannot understand Dutch .
My brother in law is a German native, lives in Germany with my sister.
They do not understand Dutch, although he can understand some Dutch text, despite the many false cognates.

On the other hand, when I spoke Polish reasonablly well, I could understand and communicate to a limited degree with Russians, before I actually learned Russian.

Linguistically, Polish and Russian are closer than German and Dutch, and share more cognates.

Germans can understand some Dutch text, but not Dutch speech.
Poles can understand some Russian speech (choose/pretend not to tho), but not Russian text (unless they can read cyrillic, in which case, they could decipher a lot)

You are incorrect about the other points. Historically & Democratically, Holland is closer to England than Germany.
The Dutch founded New Amsterdam (A.K.A New York).
The Dutch had an empire, a strong navy, William of Orange etc.
Most of the German Empire was in Africa and European conquest.
Germany didn't even exist until very recently anyway.

In terms of democratic values and social system and ideology, they share some traits with Germany, but share equally many with France and England.

On the contrary Poles are Catholic and Russians Orthodox what has heavily influenced their mentality.
Russia used to be semi-Asiatic dictatorship and Poland semi-democratic republic.

This is textbook propaganda and a very blind study.
It would be foolish to assert that Orthodoxy has not influenced Russia, of course it has, but don't forget religion was illegal in Russia for 3 generations.

There are many known problems between Vladivostock and Moscow, or Moscow and other cities, who feel they shouldn't be compelled to listen to Moscow for direction.

Same is true of New York, Los Angeles & Washington.
Or London, Paris, Berlin, Rome & Brussels

Russians tend to live in collectives driven by herd instinct lol.
Poles are sick individualists prone to anarchy.

This is complete nonsense.
Russia is the largest country on Earth, across 2 continents, among the most diverse nations and has over 150 million people.

Many of the Poles here are law abiding, some liberal, some authoritarian.
Many young poles are far from individualist, they are very trendy and up to date with the latest fashions and subscribe to all the MTV non-individualist things that Russians subscribe to.

Russian patriotism equals chauvinism, majority of Poles know some short lived zeal only.

This is true of some people, equally untrue of many other people.
I can say the exact same of some Republicans and some Unionists in Ireland.
Nothing is so black and white.

I could continue but obviously you've got your own picture ready ... something like saying
"Poles believe they are the political centre of the Universe" or even better
"Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians are somewhat closer to the Russian mentality".

You must offer some facts with evidence, or share some specific experiences.
Otherwise, you are just repeating the same Polish propaganda I learned to ignore a long time ago, broad sweeping generalisations.

No offence but you know too much and not enough at the same time to understand East-Europeans.

I don't even understand this sentence.
What does it mean?

Maybe it's better to belive we are stone age creatures like some West-Europeans do ?
At least I feel free to call them morons lol.

I don't believe you are stone age creatures, I am trying to kill this myth..........of both Russia and Poland.
If you want to see stone age creatures, visit Somalia or Sudan.
Borrka 37 | 594  
13 May 2009 /  #102
Dutch is Low Franconian as opposed to Modern German

Look, you even don't try to understand my posting.
Do I compare Dutch and Hochdeutsch ?
Dutch and Plattdeutsch (local language spoken in North-Germany) are like two dialects of the same language.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Saxon_language

So it makes the rest of your linquistic comments rather off topic

Linguistically, Polish and Russian are closer than German and Dutch, and share more cognates.

Quite arogant statement in discussion with me, given my full knowledge of both Polish and Russian.
BTW. I'm native speaker of German.

This is complete nonsense.

And this is again your arogant opinion only

You must offer some facts with evidence

Oh really ?
And what about you?
Prove to me Latvians or Estonians (native not Russian minority) are close to Russians lol.
Probably they are much closer to Martians.
dannyboy 18 | 248  
13 May 2009 /  #103
Look, you even don't try to understand my posting.

Quite correct, I don't understand you at all.

You said originally,

Dutchmen and (Northern) Germans are both Germanic

You focused on a range of topics of similarity between the Dutch and Germans.

and now:

Do I compare Dutch and Hochdeutsch ?

So it makes the rest of your linquistic comments rather off topic

The linguistic issues, while still being equally relevant, were merely an aside.
You were originally focusing on the mentalities, not languages.

Quite arogant statement in discussion with me, given my full knowledge of both Polish and Russian.

Do you understand the definition of the word arrogant?

You have suggested that I am arrogant for giving my opinion?
You should also research the word "irony".

While not expert, I also have knowledge of German, Polish, and Russian (and French and Irish).

BTW. I'm native speaker of German.

Yet you don't share their skill in debate or logical reasoning??
A tragedy.

And this is again your arogant opinion only

I disagree.
You made a broad, sweeping, innacurate, stereotypical generalisation. A.K.A Nonsense.

Oh really ?
And what about you?
Prove to me Latvians or Estonians (native not Russian minority) are close to Russians lol.
Probably they are much closer to Martians.

I have qualified all of my statements with reasoning or experience.
You have yet to qualify any.
If you need clarification on any point I have raised or opinion I have offered, I am more than willing.

This is the nature of debate.
If you can't handle a debate without throwing your toys out of the pram, you shouldn't make baseless assertions.
Nathan 18 | 1,363  
13 May 2009 /  #104
i see Kaliningrad as opportunity for Poland to escape from EU Empire and to become closer with Russia

Why don't Serbia escape to Russia? Go ahead make it official at last, because these suck-ups to Russia from crows in shadow last so long already. Join your mother, be a normal son ;)
Borrka 37 | 594  
14 May 2009 /  #105
Join your mother, be a normal son ;)

As far as I remember Serbia already tried to join Russo-Belorussian
Union.

You were originally focusing on the mentalities, not languages.

Not true - I was focusing on similarities in general.
And languages make just part of it.

You have suggested that I am arrogant for giving my opinion?

Arrogant for giving such an opinion becouse it's just the way I feel it.
No way around it.
Imagine somebody saying "Irish are kind of Englishmen".
Okay, maybe you don't care or maybe it's even part true.
But I do care about my identity and stressing some second rank similarities in order to prove we are close to Russians is demagogy pure.

This time I'm giving my opinion lol.

Yet you don't share their skill in debate or logical reasoning??A tragedy.

I don't see any connection between these two issues.
I mean speaking German and logical reasoning.
Just again some of your myths.

I have qualified all of my statements with reasoning or experience.You have yet to qualify any.

In your imagination only.
If you don't know the subject you can hardly discuss it.
You can learn something at the best.
This time from me.
dannyboy 18 | 248  
14 May 2009 /  #106
Not true - I was focusing on similarities in general.
And languages make just part of it.

You have just reiterated my last point.
I think we have a communication problem before we even reach a difference of opinion.
Either that or you are a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

Arrogant for giving such an opinion becouse it's just the way I feel it.
No way around it.

LOL, well, luckily for me and unluckily for you, we have democracy and freedom of speech.

Can you really not see the irony in all these things you are saying?
Its like the pot calling the kettle black.
i.e. there is one rule for you and a different rule for the Russians.

Imagine somebody saying "Irish are kind of Englishmen".
Okay, maybe you don't care or maybe it's even part true.
But I do care about my identity and stressing some second rank similarities in order to prove we are close to Russians is demagogy pure.

If someone says "Irish are a kind of Englishmen" - thats fine by me.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
All I would ask of a person who said that is:

1. how is this so?
2. why do you believe this to be true?
Do you understand me?

You're entitled to your opinion, but unless you qualify it with proof or experience i.e. unless you give some type of reasoning, they it remains just an opinion, and a worthless one in my view because its no different to the standard Polish dogma.

I don't see any connection between these two issues.
I mean speaking German and logical reasoning.
Just again some of your myths.

If you cannot see the connection, then why are you tackling a much larger issue i.e. Polish/Russian relations

You should learn to crawl before you try to run Borrka.

In your imagination only.
If you don't know the subject you can hardly discuss it.
You can learn something at the best.
This time from me.

I could equally say, if you don't know how to use English adequately, you should hardly attempt to write it/speak it - but I haven't said that to you.

I tolerate your grammatical and syntax errors because I can read between the lines and guess where necessary.

The same cannot be said of your opinion. Unless you justify it, it simply sounds like mindless, bigoted propaganda.
As for my knowledge on this subject, lol, I have already demonstrated my knowledge in depth and specifically, whereas your last two posts have been simply a facade about how knowledgeable you are, yet the most direct and conclusive statement you have offered is "Russians tend to live in collectives driven by herd instinct".

All fluff & no substance.

What is it that makes your opinion of Russia so valid?
As far as I understand, you speak Russian............and thats it.
I met a Chineseman once who spoke Irish, but had never visited Ireland.

I honestly doubt I could learn anything from you, because you mindless recite your brainwashed propaganda like a zombiefied North Korean, and when I ask you to qualify the propaganda, you give a spiel about how qualified you are. LOL.

However, I would love to have a discussion on the subject, rather than the emperor's lack of clothes.
Borrka 37 | 594  
14 May 2009 /  #107
because you mindless recite your brainwashed propaganda like a zombiefied North Korean

Would you pls tell me what is my "brainwashed propaganda" ?
But no lecture on eristics again if possible .

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.All I would ask of a person who said that is: 1. how is this so?2. why do you believe this to be true?

Asking you about any Polish/Russian issues is like discussing colors of a rainbow with a blind person.
Alone your statement about people of the Baltics being similar to Russians proves your total lack of knowledge and when I comment your postings it's not because I need any information from you.

My message should be clear to other forum members - your opinions and impressions are mostly wrong.
For me there is no need to ask you any questions .

What is it that makes your opinion of Russia so valid?

Once again - we are discussing differences between Poles and Russians.
Or similarities if you wish.
I've spent about 10 years in Russia.
I have a good "hobby" knowledge of Russian politcs, history, culture, art etc. etc.
Same goes for Poland of course.
I speak both languages and it's not a basic level.
I read Russian books in Russian, I watch Russian TV and Russian movies without subtitles.
I'm answering your question only and not trying to show "how knowledgeable" I am.

As for my knowledge on this subject, lol, I have already demonstrated my knowledge in depth

Sure, presenting some naive views of the East-European countries gives you an expert cerification.
In some Irish pub maybe.

I could equally say, if you don't know how to use English adequately, you should hardly attempt to write it/speak it - but I haven't said that to you.I tolerate your grammatical and syntax errors because I can read between the lines and guess where necessary.

How nice of you giving me the chance to communicate in English.
And I don't expect any revenge in Polish.

Actually it was your only valid argument lol.
Wasn't it ?
Crow 139 | 8,280  
14 May 2009 /  #108
Why don't Serbia escape to Russia? Go ahead make it official at last, because these suck-ups to Russia from crows in shadow last so long already. Join your mother, be a normal son ;)

Nathan

Are you Albanian?
Nathan 18 | 1,363  
14 May 2009 /  #109
No, I am Ukrainian. And I don't like what you say about Ukrainian-Polish relationship and Polish helping out Ukraine to break free from the shackles of communism and Russian empirialism. You say to them (Polish) stop killing Ukraine, are you Russian? What is your business with Ukraine. I don't care about the course Serbia takes and I don't tell you what you have to do. Mind yuor own piece of land and if you like Russia so much - go ahead and join them. What is keeping you?
Crow 139 | 8,280  
14 May 2009 /  #110
No, I am Ukrainian.

hahaha hahah muhaha muahaha muja muja muja

Ukrainians respect Serbians. You aren`t Ukrainian. Ukrainians are good brothers

hahah hahha hah hhohoh ohoho ohohoohoho
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
14 May 2009 /  #111
What's with the Muja, Crow? Threat or opportunity for who?
Crow 139 | 8,280  
14 May 2009 /  #112
muja`s are all who are deluded with incoming Eurabia

Anyway, this Nathan can`t be Ukrainian. He sound as Albanian provocator. I never in my life heard that one Ukrainain disrespect Serbs. For the sake of God, Serbs are alive only thanks to them and to Poles and Russians.

Look how this Net creature talk about Serbs. Serbs don`t obey nor to Russians, nor to anybody else. In our history we f**** all who deserve to be f****. Serbians gave greatest resistance to Soviets, greater then Poles or Ukrainains. Serbs criticized Soviets for all what they done, we spat in face of worse communist scum. We send message to Soviets that we don`t consider them for Russians, we believed that Russians can beat communism. Serbians encouraged resistance of all other Slavs to Soviet Union.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
14 May 2009 /  #113
Well, the gas crisis proved otherwise ;) ;)
Nathan 18 | 1,363  
15 May 2009 /  #114
Look how this Net creature talk about Serbs.

Well, how do I talk of Serbs? All I am saying relax and if you feel love to Russia as much as you express in your dialogues, do something about it. But don't involve Ukraine in it. That's all I am asking of you.

Serbians gave greatest resistance to Soviets, greater then Poles or Ukrainains. Serbs criticized Soviets for all what they done, we spat in face of worse communist scum. We send message to Soviets that we don`t consider them for Russians, we believed that Russians can beat communism. Serbians encouraged resistance of all other Slavs to Soviet Union.

Poles and Ukrainians gave a huge resistance to Soviets. That is why many died being in military organizations or by writing Soviet totaliarism's undermining literature. Many of these people ended up in Siberia or imprisoned for 15 to 25 years, of those not many returned. Neither of us gave up. I don't know of Poland much, but millions of people who were imprisoned or forcefully moved to Kazakhstan, Far East of Russia were replaced in Ukraine by Russians who now do the only thing in the country - undermine politics or any positive changes there are to be done. They hate very word "Ukraine" even though they hold Ukrainian passports. Soviet Union moved Russians in every republic possible to exert its force and now the consequences can be felt in vacillating political situation in Ukraine.

So, Crow, if you want "love" with your "brethren" - go ahead and make it, but don't mix in Ukraine in here, talk of Serbia.
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
15 May 2009 /  #115
Soviet Union moved Russians in every republic possible to exert its force and now the consequences can be felt in vacillating political situation in Ukraine.

That's a drivel, Anatoly. Please keep your Russophobia within your stomach and don't throw it up spilling on here. When you say "moved Russians" who the hell you meant? Who are "Russians"? If you mean KGB or whatever.. please, specify... since there were A LOT OF Ukrainians in punish brigades who shot Russians, Poles and UKRAINIANS. I suspect that those Ukrainians who doesn't share your views are automatically goes by "Russians". That's you who hates the very word "Russian", others just want to live in peace...

Btw while in Ukraine (if you ever been there of course) do you ask people to take any kind of DNA-test (unfortunately there's no test so far to define if the person is Ukrainian or Russian due to strong assimilation and aspects of self-identification) before handshake?
dannyboy 18 | 248  
15 May 2009 /  #116
Would you pls tell me what is my "brainwashed propaganda" ?
But no lecture on eristics again if possible .

Asking you about any Polish/Russian issues is like discussing colors of a rainbow with a blind person.

Sweet Lord, give me patience.
Borrka, you have a brain like a sieve.
You still continue to contradict yourself at every given opportunity.
I would rather not repeat your bigoted spiel, but view posts #36, #38, #40, #103

A lecture on eristics would be wasted on you, first you would need to comprehend logic.

Alone your statement about people of the Baltics being similar to Russians proves your total lack of knowledge and when I comment your postings it's not because I need any information from you.

Yet you again fail to explain why.
Yawn.........

Have you considered a career in international espionage?
Trying to extract a coherent answer from you from you is as futile as attempting to draw blood from a rock.

My message should be clear to other forum members - your opinions and impressions are mostly wrong.

Your message is clear as crystal:
1) You cannot answer a question directly
2) Your comprehensive skills in written English need work
3) You are bigoted against Russia and the Russian people but you cannot explain why.
4) You are afraid to elaborate on the simplistic generalisations which you have offered.
5) You cannot hold a debate.

Continue, please.
If Germans had understood the mindset of Hitler, who hated without reason, perhaps there would have been no War.
If non-Russians understand the mentality of those who hate Russians without reason, the world will ultimately be a safe place.

Perhaps, in your own manic method, you are doing a great service to humanity?

For me there is no need to ask you any questions .

I suspect you've never asked anyone a question in your life.

You were born both omnipotent and omniscient, correct?
The chip on your shoulder was not innate however, that was acquired.

Sure, presenting some naive views of the Eastern European countries gives you an expert certification, in some Irish pub perhaps.

Amazingly enough, I'm Irish and don't drink any alcohol at all.
I can't remember the last time I was in a pub other than to work in a 2nd job.
I am interested in bodybuilding and far prefer it to alcohol.
You can click on my profile and check my 2nd picture if you don't believe me.

As for my expert certification, my field is Software, not tinpot dictatorship.
I don't claim to have any expert or correct opinion on anyone or anything.
I do however, consider myself an open minded individual and am more than willing to give anybody the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise.

How nice of you giving me the chance to communicate in English.
And I don't expect any revenge in Polish.

How nice of you giving me the chance to express my opinion?
Oh wait, you didn't, I'm arrogant for doing so of course.
And I don't expect any revenge in Irish.

Actually it was your only valid argument lol.
Wasn't it ?

As a matter of fact, your English is not bad.
Its your comprehensive skills which are poor and your inability to make coherent points.
You don't seem to understand how to interpret any of the points I am making.

I recongise your style of reasoning very well, as I was in a relationship with a Polish woman for 3 years. The Emperor has no clothes.

I make a point, then you disagree with me by reiterating the same point.(??lol)
Or else I make a point, and you disagree with a different point which I have not even made(lol).
In either case, you don't explain why you are disagreeing, simply that you are disagreeing and throw in a few weak quips, an attack on Russians and a feather in your cap about what an expert you are.

I've spent about 10 years in Russia.
I have a good "hobby" knowledge of Russian politcs, history, culture, art etc. etc.
Same goes for Poland of course.
I speak both languages and it's not a basic level.
I read Russian books in Russian, I watch Russian TV and Russian movies without subtitles.
I'm answering your question only and not trying to show "how knowledgeable" I am.

You answered a question!!!!!
If you could do this for all the other questions, we may actually get a discussion going.

In conclusion, I plead with you, enlighten me.
Elaborate on your earlier comments about the herd mentality etc.
jwojcie 2 | 763  
15 May 2009 /  #117
If I may few words about initial topic "Kaliningrad. Problem, Threat or Opportunity?"
It was opportunity until Putin centralized Russia again... Maybe in the big picture it was necessary for Russia but it killed local initiatives. In order to change Kaliningrad into some small version of Hong Kong Russia has to change it into some kind of autonomy. Without it is impossible to make different arrangements on local level (not EU-Russia level). In fact it is Russia own choice to make it a threat (huge military presence), and problem, for example: Pilawska Strait and city of Elblag. This city has nice port and many sailors would love to get there from Gdansk area via Pilawska Strait, they would also like to join such trip with visit in Królewiec (Kaliningrad). But they can't because Russia closed that strait for polish vessels... So Elblag and Kaliningrad are losing money... Maybe in time when Russia gets more self-confidence restrictions would be gradually lifted, but for now it seems that Russia feels unsecured and pursue for Kaliningrad policy of one big closed military base. What is worse inhabitants of Kaliningrad region have no tools to change that.
Nathan 18 | 1,363  
15 May 2009 /  #118
That's a drivel, Anatoly. Please keep your Russophobia within your stomach and don't throw it up spilling on here. When you say "moved Russians" who the hell you meant? Who are "Russians"? If you mean KGB or whatever.. please, specify... since there were A LOT OF Ukrainians in punish brigades who shot Russians, Poles and UKRAINIANS. I suspect that those Ukrainians who doesn't share your views are automatically goes by "Russians". That's you who hates the very word "Russian", others just want to live in peace...

There is a thing called self-identification. There is nothing wrong with belonging to a nationality, but working against a country were you were raised and sometimes born is outrageous. Why isn't there any other nationality which would do similar? Why do majority of your people instead of working to bring up the country, does everything to destroy it?

"Crimean Muslims were subjected to mass deportation in 1944 when Stalin accused them of collaborating with the Nazi Germany. Nearly 200,000 Crimean Tatars were deported to Central Asia, mainly Uzbekistan but also to Kazakhstan and some regions of Russian SFSR. The main deportation occurred on May 18, 1944. It is estimated that about 45% of all Crimean Muslims died in 1944-1945 from hunger and disease.[citation needed] The property and territory abandoned by Crimean Tatars were appropriated by the mostly ethnic Russians who were resettled by the Soviet authorities. This led to demographic changes in Ukraine with huge impact in the future. Although a 1967 Soviet decree removed the charges against Crimean Tatars, the Soviet government did nothing to facilitate their resettlement in Crimea and to make reparations for lost lives and confiscated property. The repatriation of Crimean tatars to their homeland began only in 1989."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Ukraine

This is just one nation that was deported and resettled by Russians. You will find hundreds of examples for Ukrainians, Lithuanians, Polish, Bielorusyns, Georgians etc.......
Borrka 37 | 594  
15 May 2009 /  #119
You answered a question!!!!!

It's rare just because your questions are mostly like that:
Why Poles are black ?
Why do you hate Russia ?

Trying to extract a coherent answer from you from you is as futile as attempting to draw blood from a rock.

You know dannyboy ...it's quite simple.
No input no output.

All statements referring to your personal issues (girlfriend) are under acceptable level of discussion.
Actually same goes for remarks on my "skills in written English" which are (the remarks) absolutely not in line with net savoir vivre lol.

And forum is not an assessment center for any languages.

But I don't care too much about my English - being fluent in some other European languages I can live without it.
It's only my previous company (US) which made me speaking some pidgin English few years ago.
But those bad times are over now .

BTW. Cany you really speak Gaelic (Irish as you said)?

I recongise your style of reasoning very well, as I was in a relationship with a Polish woman for 3 years. T

Here we go again!
What kind of argumentation was
that ?

Amazingly enough, I'm Irish and don't drink any alcohol at all.

And how your drinking habits are of any importance for this thread ?

my field is Software

So what ?

You're expecting coherent answers for your diffuse lectures on .... what the hell are you actually talking about ?
That I hate Russians ?
No. I don't.

It's your turn now to prove the opposite.
But pls !!!!
Don't even try to refer to stupid jokes about "Russian Mongols", "Slavonic brothers from Asiatic steppes"
or similar.
I know it better than you can ever imagine that Russkies are not some Stone Age people.

enlighten me.

You better wait for some Divine Enlightenment.
But there is not too much hope for you.
dannyboy 18 | 248  
15 May 2009 /  #120
It's rare just because your questions are mostly like that:
Why Poles are black ?
Why do you hate Russia ?

Borrka, have you ever spoken to a psychiatrist?
There are people who can help you.
I've just forwarded the url of this thread to a colleague, and he thinks you are psychologically ill.

I wonder, have you ever had an argument with a wall?

Its now rather apparent why the Russians dislike you, no doubt you lambasted them for being Chinese.

You know dannyboy ...it's quite simple.

Quite simple indeed.
You're all fluff and no substance.
And you wildly jump from point to point without ever making a conclusive statement on anything.

All statements referring to your personal issues (girlfriend) are under acceptable level of discussion.
Actually same goes for remarks on my "skills in written English" which are (the remarks) absolutely not in line with net savoir vivre lol.

Please don't be so foolish, condescending or arrogant as to assume you can determine what is and what is not relevant to a debate. Even if you had the intellectual capacity, you do not have any authority.

Q. If one were to exclude personal experience from this debate - what is left to offer ?
A. Propaganda & rehashed biased historical accounts.

Borrka, I am actually laughing out loud now, HAHAHA :)

But I don't care too much about my English - being fluent in some other European languages I can live without it.
It's only my previous company (US) which made me speaking some pidgin English few years ago.
But those bad times are over now .

Didn't you just say personal experiences & commentary are off the discussion table?
Gasp! Again contradicting yourself.

BTW. Cany you really speak Gaelic (Irish as you said)?

No, I don't speak Gaelic, as you said. Gaelic is from Scotland.
I speak Gaeilge (Irish).

Here we go again!
What kind of argumentation was that ?

Did you think it was a ridiculous statement? Why?
(Sweet Jesus, its feels as though I've encountered the PolishForums AI simulator)

Do you know how to contradict a statement Borrka?
Are you capable of giving anything other than a binary answer?

And how your drinking habits are of any importance for this thread ?

Hello Borrka, my name is Dan.
Hello Borrka, my name is Dan.
Hello Borrka, my name is Dan.

Honest question, do you have alzheimer's?
Refer to your previous comment about how I have an expert certification in Eastern European studies among my peers in Irish Pubs.

So what ?

So Software is the field which I have studied, academically.
I'm never claimed to be an expert on Eastern Europe, and I didn't study EE politics or history in University, my degree is in Computer Science, not EE Studies.

You're expecting coherent answers for your diffuse lectures on .... what the hell are you actually talking about ?
That I hate Russians ?
No. I don't.

Lol, diffuse lectures.
Do you suffer from Attention Deficit disorder?.

Since you have cherry picked statements from my accounts, it is you who has determined the discussion here, you simpleton.

It's your turn now to prove the opposite.
But pls !!!!
Don't even try to refer to stupid jokes about "Russian Mongols", "Slavonic brothers from Asiatic steppes" or similar.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

HAHAHA!
Let me get this straight.
You have just asked me to prove..............that YOU do NOT hate Russians?

This is the most moronic thing I have ever heard in my life.

Borrka, go back to sleep.

You better wait for some Divine Enlightenment.
But there is not too much hope for you.

I fear you are correct about this.
Even if God blessed me with temporary insanity in order to try and understand you, it still wouldn't be sufficient.

You are like a black hole of insanity - you suck in all common sense and logic and exterminate it.

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