Poland biggest problem

For me Jean Paul was not a thief.

It only shows that you are a good man after all. :P

Michel you right men, spot on !!

Let me guess, you know Spanish, innit?

Ps: Birds of a feather… :)

Two words: Roman Giertych.

Emmigration. The younger pople are leaving in droves. Are they the " best and the brightest " Poland has to offer? It can certainly be debated. Do they return? My guess is most would like to, but never do. Without the well educated, high minded, and highly motivated young people, en masse, it will be extremely challenging for Poland to:

Fight corruption
Face off with the Church

Poland really needs to kick up they're economysystem so that they can compete with the other countries when it comes to wages. Just here in Norway we have 75000 poles working ,and they make what is a year salary in poland in one month in Norway.

Just look at the footballstadium in Warsaw ,they have problems getting it ready for the European Championships because there arent any workers. So Poland must get workers from Ukraine and Belarus.

Selling out whatever possible to foreign investors (be it land, real estate, businesses) - that will fight back quickly. Now in some regions most companies are 100% foreign-owned and Poles are just regular workers there. Not owners.

Your thoughts on this topic make a lot of sense, people need to let Poland be Poland, Poland has a rich history and has had a tremendous faith journey, Let Poland be Poland not what others want it to be, A lot of people want it to be modelled on a British/American type mentality, that will never work.

i read about some feeling about church and christianity in Poland, so here is some of my finds about these things (i posted it previous, but i do it again now here):

" Alas for you, scribes and Pharisees (Priests), hypocrites, for you build the tombs of the prophets and you decorate the monuments of the righteous, and you say 'Had we lived in the days of your fathers, we would not have had a part in shedding the blood of the prphets.' Thus you testify against yourselves; for you are the sons of the prophet's murderers. Fill up the measure of your fathers. Snakes! You viper brood! How will you escape the sentence to hell?"

(Matthew 23:29-33)

For more clarification, why I say that this is directed to the priests:

"Then the chief priests and the elders of the people met at the palace of the high priest, Caiaphas by name, and plotted to arrest Jesus underhandedly and to kill him.."

(Matthew 26:3-4)

therefore, and the bible calls the Christ Era's preists as 'Priests', therefore The scribes and Pharisees are the brood of priests coming from ancient times till today (with different names, holding the reigns of religion..and spreading chaos:) and disunity).

also :)... as mentioned here, we cannot call the pope a holy father!

because..

"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your heavenly Father.."
(Matthew 23:9)

and why shouldnt the devoted christian marry?

"And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever..."
(Matthew 8:14)

Peter was the most devoted christian..the rock :)

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Purgatory, nuns, popes.

BIBLE - these are not mentioned in the Bible. Adding to the bible is greatest sin.

"Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."
(Proverbs 30:6)

The pope is a man who takes upon himself honor which belongs to no human being. Even the very name by which he allows himself to be called (Holy Father) is highly presumptuous and blasphemous.

We shouldnt even go for confession to mr. priest:)

"After this manner...pray ye: Our Father... forgive us.... "
(Matthew 6:9-12)

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus [not Mary, not saints, not priests, not the pope]

(Timothy 2:5)

* roman-catholic is not christianity, its just a roman religion with we follow, they couldnt beat christ , so they join him to spoil his teaching of freedom :)

if poles move away from the current churches, it will be better for poland.

I think we need about 20 years for this. Many young people don't care so much about
religion.

all the catholic nations are a mess Spain a bit better now Italy still mass up , the whole of Latin America the worst part of the world , so everywhere where the church has something to do is a mass . France , England , Scadinavian , Swiss , the USA , all great places all Not majority Catholics

Catholic is a cult sometimes i feel

This is ranj.....BW and I disagree on many things, but I will have to say the driving I have witnessed in Poland is not one of those things. I couldn't believe some of the "creative manuevers" I saw performed by many drivers....not just 1 or 2 drivers, but dozens......that being said, I will say this is a beautiful country with beautiful, kind people.....at least the ones I have met or come across.....there were a few sourpusses, but for the most part, even the strangers behind the shop tils have been very helpful and nice. I love it here!

This of course says very much the same as I said in a debate about TESOL teachers and how Western culture and especially American English is being allowed to take over Polish culture and their language. Instead of Poland doing even better what it did before, i.e. during the Communist era, for example producing some fine films for the cinema and its own brand of modern music (Lady Punk, for one) it is simply now superimposing a strange weak form of a Western culture over the top. The television programmes are dreadful-Polish versions of Who Wants To Be A millionaire?, a Polish version of Blind Date and the list goes on. Here, Poland is in real danger of losing its cultural heritage and identity.


I think for the Poles the church is an excuse.

I can see where you are coming from, but i don't see it as an excuse for them more like a hindrance. If the Polish nation would concentrate on real life issues that would benefit their country for the better instead of serving to please their 'god' or 'religion' which is the ramblings of a few bored guys who hit a nerve with the reading public.

hay you never know the Harry Potter books could become a cult religion in a few 1000 years :)

But on a series point just imagine Poland driving itself and going in a new direction without religion. The focus would be more in everyday important matters therefore producing a more successful prosperous Poland :)

1. Not enough cash.

We are fukin poor. We are doing anything anywhere, for many young people is much better to do anything in the UK instead of hard working in Poland. And they are right.

2. International relations.

Nobody cares about Poland, how if our president doesn't speak English (and his wife does)?
Also - we have no ambassadors in over 20 countries (and I'm not talking about Africa, jungle or Mars, there are no polish ambassadors in Athens, Seul etc. including 2 countries i EU and 2 another from NATO + much much more).

That's why we're involved in stupid wars in Iraq or Afghanistan and getting 10x less from the USA than Turkey for allowing Americans to use their bases and nothing more (and don't forget that the Turkey is a 99% muslim country wich was involved in killing kurdish people).

I'm not even writing about Israel (3,000,000,000 USD yearly for military purposes). Poland with soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan is getting 100x less (3,000,000 USD). So we can buy two good tanks per year or so.

NO I DON'T think this is a good way for making cash, BUT I just wanted to show how ignored we are.

See VISAs to the USA also. Most of people who wanted to move from Poland just moved, but we will still have VISAs.

There's a topic of F16s and the offset also.

etc. etc.

3. xenophobia

See number 2 ;-)))

4. THIS COUNTRY IS JUST BORING.

for example I'm living in city with population of 180,000 and we have ONE swimming pool (older than my grandpa) etc. I think that's because PEOPLE HERE ARE BORING, that's the point, but anyway kids - if want to have fun here - take drugs.

You can buy an exotic car (like Opel Calibra for 700 USD, very popular "sport" car nowaydays, lol) and drag racing, but there are no roads for that, if You drive over 60 mph in city I'm sure You will lose your wheels soon.

You can buy a bike, but here are no bike tracks. Oh, and ask me first where to ride, because there are areas where some people are trying to steal bikes all the time (tried to steal mine about four times, they are "working" about 600 meters from police headquarters).

You can go to pub for non-smokers, but You won't find any.

There are no parks (if are Russians built them when my mother was 6 years old or something) the ONLY entertainment here is shopping, every weekend about 70% of people or even more are not even shopping but walking and watching stuff for sell (You can buy nice shoes for 300-400 PLN, month income of MOST of people here is not more than 1500 PLN, that's why they're just watching).

The rest is watching TV.

Otherwise most of them think Americans are stupid. But we ARE copying American lifestyle not Americans Polish...

And I believe that's better for us. Someone said that we are "losing its own identity". I'm not sure what does that mean? Drinking or what? What makes our identity so special?

One of the best posts ever, thanks.

I suppose that it is understandable with so many years of isolation during the Communist era. Everybody must believe in something and religion is what helped to keep them together rather like a crutch-it is something to lean on.


English people had visas to go to Poland until very recently in history. Poland has not been very pro the West either in this regard.

true true true !!!!!! and I live in Warsaw the center of the place and is boring as hell

You have to remember that so much of it was destroyed in the last war. I love walking round the 'Old Town' but I suppose that it is a novelty for me as I am so rarely there. It could be a good idea to take a train and visit some other places as trains were not that expensive. Have you been to a place called Kazimierz Dolny (if I have spelt it rightly), it is very nice and not that far south from Warsaw but then again something to do in the summer months. I heard that Warsaw was supposed to be the 'up and coming place' to be.

is not yet , that is for sure , but will check it out this place is very hot here now so will give it a try

What about taking the train to Sopot via Gdansk. If it is hot you may find rest, peace and a little comfort there. I am sure it is nice in good weather. I was there in winter, another thing all together though.

Already been , and you right is Nice there is my favor place in the whole country maybe is becouse remember of germany and I like germany a lot .

a very remarkable post from bartek 212...

Exactly! But humans still need a faith in someone or something to survive as true human beings. And that not gonna be money!
Poland's, every Pole's and everyone else's biggest problem is to find a faith more convincing, more lasting and more universal than the current religions.

Michal,

You seem to have some allies on this thread. That must be a first.

rocks !!!!

I believe boredom comes from within. You don't get bored if you can involve yourself in things that are available to you. I would now count on other people to entertain you all your life... That's dependance on the external world to define your personality.


Yeah, you can go to a psychologist and get a pricey therapy if you have qualms... He/she will also give you an absolution for whatever it is that you do...

About Church and religion - Catholic Church is having some problems, but is not because the Catholic religion is wrong, but because too many people become priests for reasons other than faith and service to God and people. Those people however come from within the society, so what does it tell you about the nation, you and me?

That's rather a sad reality, but what do we do to change it? All we can do it criticize prists, which does not make you, me and our children any better, does it.

First change yourself, and then go on a mission to change the world!


Are they really that great? Have you lived there? I have heard great numbers of Japanese and Scandinavians commit suicides! From all the happiness I guess...

is one thing been great is another . How many Japanese or Scadinavians you see going to the UK to make beds ???