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Why the American economy is not going to fail - take a lesson from Poland


mbiernat 3 | 107  
24 Sep 2008 /  #1
The US economy is not going to fail. Why ? Poland 20 years ago was a desert because of communism, not it has bloomed and is a large respectable EU world economy. In 20 years Poland developed very fast. There is not way the US will ever come close to the hard times Poland had and even if it did, look at Poland now.
Franek 8 | 271  
24 Sep 2008 /  #2
America is going to go through some hard times due to a lot of corruption.. The fault is strictly in the hands of our Government. Our crooked Congress and the Liberals, and crooked CEO's.. The FBI and Justice Dept. is investigating.. Somebody has to go to jail.

America will survive this problem. A lot of people are going to get hurt.. Especially the poor. But they are partially to blame.. They borrowed money that they could not afford to repay.

The middle class will fare much better.. Our savings are Government insured.
It is a mess.. But America will get out of this a lot smarter.
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
24 Sep 2008 /  #3
Why the American economy is not going to fail

What economy?
Do you mean the goods made in China, or continuing government bailouts of bankrupt banks?
OP mbiernat 3 | 107  
24 Sep 2008 /  #4
Yes the us is down but will come back very strong. It may correct and income generation might slow, but actual wealth does not evaporate. I wrote more here. autoinsurance5.com/us-economy-poland/

It is about the deceleration of wealth creation and a redistribution of wealth on a massive scale - here is an article by MSN money articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Forbes/7BetterUsesfor70 0Billion.aspx which I agree with. that is the redistribution could have been wiser than helping greedy wall street banks etc. Maybe I am rambling but I think corruption, greed whatever, the US still has low taxes - clear laws - and a pro business environment. These things will bring it back to life and I wrote it will never go down to Poland's communist days, it will go down a little then bounce back fast.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
24 Sep 2008 /  #5
I am not so optimistic...Yesterday was a historic one for America...the 'Two Zhids'. Henry Paulson, former CEO of Goldman Sachs when that company had reached it's pinnacle of looting the American economy, and now US TREASURY SECRETARY, and Ben Bernanke, head of the Rothschild controled FED, both DEMANDED the 'unconditional surrender' of the American people's money and soveriegty when they went before Congress...If Congress, which is completely corrupt, agrees to this, we in America are finished, as the money they demanded would make America a debtor/serf nation for the next generation...This is a replay of what happened in 'Weimar Germany.'
Franek 8 | 271  
24 Sep 2008 /  #6
Joe!
I cant help but agree in most if not all that you have stated.
As of today, it is not a done thing yet. I shudder to think that the same people that were responsible for this fiasco , are the ones that want to fix it. There is enough of blame to go around.

So what are we as Americans to do about it. I feel like a sheep being led to slaughter..Where were the people that were supposed to oversee this. At the very least, they should be voted out of office.. We know who they are.

The money that was pilfered by the guilty persons should be made to return the money, or go to jail.

I thought about it a lot.. I for one will not be hurt..I have all of my money into real estate. As a matter of fact, Today I just bought another foreclosed home..I bought a $300.000.00 home

for $125,000.00.. That makes four homes that I now own.
The tourist season is now coming up in Florida.. I can rent these homes with a 20% profit. So I will not be hurt..There are no mortgages on any of these properties.
shewolf 5 | 1,077  
24 Sep 2008 /  #7
I thought about it a lot.. I for one will not be hurt..I have all of my money into real estate. As a matter of fact, Today I just bought another foreclosed home..I bought a $300.000.00 home
for $125,000.00.. That makes four homes that I now own.
The tourist season is now coming up in Florida.. I can rent these homes with a 20% profit. So I will not be hurt..There are no mortgages on any of these properties.

That is awesome. Congratulations.

Regarding the topic, I wonder how much of the economy's problems are due to the natural disasters that the U.S. has faced. The floods, tornadoes, hurricanes have just demolished entire neighborhoods and towns. And I'm sure a lot of those homes had mortgages and the businesses had loans and the banks are going to lose.

And it just seems like the lenders used dishonest practices in the first place to approve people for loans that they were never really going to be able to pay back once interest rates rose. Too many bad things happened all at once.
Franek 8 | 271  
24 Sep 2008 /  #8
And it just seems like the lenders used dishonest practices in the first place to approve people for loans that they were never really going to be able to pay back once interest rates rose. Too many bad things happened all at once.

Shewolf;

Bingo.. You hit the nail right on the head. It is greed running this country. But where were our watch dogs that we voted in to look out for us.. HAH! They were the biggest crooks. I feel sorry for the young people that are trying to get ahead..I am talking about the blue collar worker..I have two granddaughters that are struggling to buy a home..The young people are the ones getting hurt. I hesitate helping them out,so as they can realize how tough life can be..But Grandpop will be there if they get hurt
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
24 Sep 2008 /  #9
But where were our watch dogs that we voted in to look out for us

Watch dogs are fed by their masters; their masters are on Wall Street; hence, why would the watch dog bite the hand that feeds it, and feeds it well?
polishcanuck 7 | 462  
24 Sep 2008 /  #10
Joe, I enjoy reading your posts. Very blunt. :)
southern 75 | 7,096  
24 Sep 2008 /  #11
US economy is not going to fail because it gets strong back up from Saudi Arabia and China.Simply Saudis and Chinese cannot take their investments out of USA.(otherwise...).On the contrary US will take their capitals out of the countries they invested when crisis knocks doors.So another country will collapse as result of US crisis,not America(let's say a latin american or asian country).Russia is very big to hit and has huge reserves,so it can compensate the losses caused by flow of capital since oil prices remain high.(although Americans would like Russia or Venezuela to sink).
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
24 Sep 2008 /  #12
Joe, I enjoy reading your posts. Very blunt. :)

Thank you for your kind words.
Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
24 Sep 2008 /  #13
Regardles of wishful thinking we see on this forum, those who like USA claim that USA is going to be strong and those who don't like USA ...

IMO USA is not going to backrupt and it isn't wishful thinking.;)

Paradoxically Chinese help a lot for Americans. They have bought so many american bonds ... now they don't have choice.
plk123 8 | 4,150  
24 Sep 2008 /  #14
Liberals,

wtf? the repubs are the ones driving this country straight into a skyscraper man.
Patrycja19 63 | 2,700  
25 Sep 2008 /  #15
America is going to go through some hard times due to a lot of corruption.. The fault is strictly in the hands of our Government. Our crooked Congress and the Liberals, and crooked CEO's.. The FBI and Justice Dept. is investigating.. Somebody has to go to jail.

Well, I hope your right franek, but I for one would like to know if its affecting
other global economies, because of trade, what people are and arent buying..

alot of places are going under, and the big OIL companies are profiting well
now what ?? they got big profits they will eventually lose in the long run
because the money has to be distributed evenly in order for the economy to
be stable... you cant just give it all to the rich . theres no structure, and
eventually they will have to dump it back into the economy in order to restore
normal functions of top businesses.. if theres no buying theres no jobs, no jobs
no money.. simple..

and we have to bring home our jobs, its got to end.
Franek 8 | 271  
25 Sep 2008 /  #16
Pat;
I wish that I could give you the answer. But like you, I don't know the answer. If those Idiots in Washington cant figure it out.. How can we?

I for one blame it on greed and corruption. There is no one person responsible, the blame has to be shared by all the crooks in Washington.

It should be investigated and the guilty should go to jail.
But that will never happen.. They protect each other.

But let some poor guy who is down on his luck, steals a loaf of bread to feed his family, will go to jail.

So much for liberty and justice for all.
ParisJazz - | 172  
25 Sep 2008 /  #17
The US economy is not going to fail. Why ? Poland 20 years ago was a desert because of communism, not it has bloomed and is a large respectable EU world economy. In 20 years Poland developed very fast. There is not way the US will ever come close to the hard times Poland had and even if it did, look at Poland now.

Concise, Deep, Incisive, Precise and to the point. No need to tune into Bloomberg TV anymore ;-)

greedy wall street banks etc

The banks are not greedy. They are private enterprises whose aim is to serve paying customers, compete and make profit. They are no greedier than car manufacturers, energy companies, insurance companies or your local chippy.

The real culprits are fractional reserve banking, the FED controlling the money and the banking system, and government meddling. This is no forum to expand on such issues but I suggest you look around.

PJ
masks98 27 | 289  
26 Sep 2008 /  #18
The US economy is not going to fail.

What does everyone mean by fail?
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
26 Sep 2008 /  #19
Dunno about everybody, but to me the failure is clear. The much touted "free market economy" and the slogan that governments should stay out of economy as it will (allegedly) take care of itself, is pretty much gone down the tubes. Those who are usually first to make such claims are exactly the ones who now want the government to intervene, and subsidize failed policies and decisions of some big corporations.

In short, the failure appears to be in the basic premise and principles of the so called free market economy followed by the US. It is not working. It needs subsidies.
outintheyard 27 | 517  
26 Sep 2008 /  #20
America is full of fat pigs that need to learn what it would be like to do with out . This will make better people out of them. The greedy need to suffer. American economy is actually not that bad as the government makes you think. I am in construction and it has slowed some but not stopped . To many peolpe in the US have too many toys and the kids have become spoiled brats having to get the designer this and that and keeping up with everyone else . Time to learn a good lesson Let the rich like Warren Buffet bail it out they have all the money from their greed and should be held accountable Why save the investers? They took the risk.
OP mbiernat 3 | 107  
26 Sep 2008 /  #21
Why do you say Americans are greedy, they give per capital more than almost any other country. Just because they are wealthy does not mean they are bad. They lead the world for example in medical research, and do many things. They are spiritual and innovative people. --> You sound like the President of Iran. Man are you bitter. But you have a point. Investors took the risk and they should pay most of the price. Main street is helping our wall street, not the US government, because the money comes from main street inhabitants taxes.

Its not that the government should not help the US economy its how, give money to unproductive firms or give 1 trillion to innovators and successful firms via low interest loans. Reward the winners not the losers.

About the economy, growth might slow, say from 5% to .5% but wealth will not evaporate, the buildings and highways of America will not be sucked into the earth. Only growth will slow until until the next wave of innovation raises it higher.

Mark
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
26 Sep 2008 /  #22
hy do you say Americans are greedy, they give per capital more than almost any other country.

No, they don't.
Per capita, among the so called rich countries, the US is close to the bottom of the list. Only Italy and Spain give less. Denmark gives about 5 times as much as the US, Norway nearly 8 times more.
outintheyard 27 | 517  
26 Sep 2008 /  #23
Reward the winners not the losers

Now there is a concept worth noting Hmmm.. That would make competition and the fat cats would not like that one bit Kind of like the Tucker Automobile Yes indeed.
OP mbiernat 3 | 107  
28 Sep 2008 /  #24
z_darius You are wrong. I will tell you why. If you are looking at the government aid/per capita yes. Obviously high tax (70%) scandinavian countries will rank high as everything is done via the government. But I am talking about voluntary giving from the people, not forced giving by the government via the tax system. America believes individuals not the government should handle things like medical, schools, donations, business etc. If you talk about private donations make by americans to charity, I think you will find American are near the top.
Michal2 - | 78  
28 Sep 2008 /  #25
large respectable EU world economy. In 20 years Poland developed very fast. There is not way the US will ever come close to the hard times Poland had and even if it did, look at Poland now.

Frankly, these statements are idiotic. America too has had a poor economic time in the 1930's when people really suffered-far more than a few silly Poles under Communism in the 1980's. Poland always has a 'thing' about itself. Only Poland knows hardship and sorrow and yet the fault is never Polands, only other peoples.
masks98 27 | 289  
28 Sep 2008 /  #26
Anyone notice I changed my avatar, can anyone guess the symbolism behind it?
ParisJazz - | 172  
29 Sep 2008 /  #27
The much touted "free market economy" and the slogan that governments should stay out of economy as it will (allegedly) take care of itself, is pretty much gone down the tubes.

Darius, the free market economy hasn't failed for it has never left academia's book shelves to start with. What has failed is government meddling, regulations and control.

It is the Fed that went on a reckless cheap money policy during the 90s that kick started the enormous amounts of malinvestments, the dot com bubble, the housing bubble and so forth. I remember Greenspan boasting that he had finally laid the the ghost of inflation to rest. How he must be eating humble pie at the mo.

It is the government that forced the banks to relax their lending criteria, also during the 90s, and hand out mortgages to people who couldn't afford them to promote home ownership in one of those "nobody left behind" absurd populist drives.

As for today, government is there yet again meddling, regulating and "trying" to sort the crisis that it has created in the first place. What they should do is precisely nothing. Companies should be allowed to go bust, interest rates should be raised to their appropriate market level to encourage savings and discourage reckless lending, and more importantly, prices MUST be allowed to go down. Trouble is such policy would create a recession and most politicians are haunted by America's great depression.

Throwing money at the problem, wont solve it, it will merely compound it and delay it.

PJ
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
29 Sep 2008 /  #28
z_darius You are wrong. I will tell you why. If you are looking at the government aid/per capita yes.

And that's what I was answering to. Again, per capita, USA is close to the bottom of the list of donors among the so called rich countries.
outintheyard 27 | 517  
29 Sep 2008 /  #29
Throwing money at the problem, wont solve it, it will merely compound it and delay it.

Yet this is what the US will always do and is how the rich stay that way. And why the poor will increase and no one will be left in the middle. Harly democratic when 85% of the population is aginst the bail out , yet it is going through anyway.
OP mbiernat 3 | 107  
30 Sep 2008 /  #30
Redistribution of wealth ->
Government aid, no government aid, reforms, market crashes. It is all just a redistribution of wealth. Wealth does not get sucked into a black hole.This is why I think this 'crisis' is all not as important as CNN makes it out to be. The media will hype it and sure banks will fall. But basically America will still be rich and adjust and come back. I do agree with outintheyard that there has been a shrinking middle class, but maybe this redistribution of wealth called 'financial crisis 2008" will fix that. The super rich will go down and wealth will flow more back into the hands of people who create wealth rather than speculate on wealth. z-darius I still think privately Americans give a lot. Think of all the human suffering they helped in the Tsumanmi and with the red cross. Government sponsored giving crowds out private donations. So if stats show the government giving is low, most likely private is high.

Sorry for my rants and raves, maybe its too early in the morning to be writing - but in sum, I am a big believer in the free market, both for charity and for correcting the problems of economics, including the lack of a middle class. Adam Smith was a religious man/moral philosopher and wrote his book to help others.

The real tragedy of the poor is the poverty of their aspirations.-Adam Smith

Mark, learnrussianlearnrussian.com

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