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Why the American economy is not going to fail - take a lesson from Poland

dcchris 8 | 432  
30 Sep 2008 /  #31
The super rich will go down and wealth will flow more back into the hands of people who create wealth

i doubt that. the rich take care of the rich. but surprisingly the house did not pass the bailout bill. stay tuned
ParisJazz - | 172  
30 Sep 2008 /  #32
Wealth does not get sucked into a black hole.

Wealth can be sucked into a black hole particularly when it is heavily taxed, socialised or nationalised. Just look at how the soviet union collapsed and its industrial base was left to rot and decay. That's wealth destruction. A lot of wonderful estates in France r being sold off cause the owners can no longer afford to pay the, literally, wealth tax. That's also wealth destruction.

On the free market, individuals and private enterprises generate wealth and the state merely destroys it.

This is crucial. If u don't get this u might as well go back read ur Economics 101.

The super rich will go down and wealth will flow more back into the hands of people who create wealth rather than speculate on wealth.

Bar a bloody revolution, the super rich are too smart to go down. If they r not smart enough, they hire the smartest people around to make sure they don't go down.

I am a big believer in the free market, both for charity and for correcting the problems of economics, including the lack of a middle class

You seem to be a "picky" believer in the Free Market. You shouldn't. Free Market is basically guaranteed property rights and the freedom to engage in exchange of goods and services. No more and no less. It doesn't crash the poor, it doesn't favour the rich, nor does it decimate the middle class. All these woes are the direct result of government meddling, coercion and theft.

OP mbiernat 3 | 107  
30 Sep 2008 /  #33
Thank you herd -

ParisJazz you are preaching to the choir. No need to. Free markets free people to use their gifts to the best of their ability (not to make the whole world equal), governments puts bonds and shackles on entrepreneurs. However, your wrong, wealth does not get sucked into a black whole. France is one of the wealthiest countries in the world. You can point to extremes like the collapse of the Union, but that was not a free market ( and in the long run it the total collapse of the Union was a good thing)- I am talking about the USA. No socialism, no destruction of the middle class. There may be slow growth even a year of negative growth but no collapse. In fact I have been buying stock in the last week, I went from 10% invested to 90% invested. While the is calling for the end of the world and the destruction of capitalism, I am looking for value.

ha ha ha while I hear the sounds of a stampede going in one direction I am going in the other. :) Thank you herd :)

Michal2 are you saying that we will go back to the 1930s? great, I will buy stocks, you listen to CNN and panic.
dcchris 8 | 432  
30 Sep 2008 /  #34
I will buy stocks,

southern 75 | 7,095  
30 Sep 2008 /  #35
I will buy stocks

Buy russian stocks.
OP mbiernat 3 | 107  
30 Sep 2008 /  #36
dcchris why typical? Have you ever heard of Alfred Pareto?

The sky is not falling. We world is not running out of rice like, was hyped on the US media this spring, last year it was mad cow in the US, and no one was buying meat. It is all very amusing to me. Just watch CNN and gee wiz you will be a free thinker in no time.

About buying Russian Stocks. Many are undervalued. LUKOIL is trading well below where it should be, and it sits on huge reserves in Siberia, depending on Russian tax reform it could be a good play. But I am not a speculator of that sorts. I perfer PCZ a Candian Oil company that sits on huge sand oil and more politically stable.

But the bottom line is even with a recession or a downturn in the market capitalism, the US, etc is only going to get better in the long run for those who have courage to use their talents given to them.

Look I live in Poland. I am not some foofy American. I even heard in America when Oil was hitting 1 dollar a liter, the news was saying this was destroying the American family and way of life. In Poland petro is almost 5 pln and no one is saying that. I do not even have a car.

The sky is not falling. Take a perspective from the Polish people. The world will go on and south Park and the internet and blogs and Whole foods super markets will not be turned off and closed down.

ps just just to clarify, I said I am not a foofy american but I am american, I just have lived in Poland for many years. I do not want to give Poles a bad name by people reading my posts, thinking someone so brash as myself was born in Poland. :)
outintheyard 27 | 517  
30 Sep 2008 /  #37
ps just just to clarify, I said I am not a foofy american

Are you going to stay in Poland? Do you feel it is a better life there? I agree with your posts and am wondering if you are there for work or is it better living there without a car and more simple.
dcchris 8 | 432  
30 Sep 2008 /  #38
foofy hmm what exactly does that mean

foofy american

it sounds like something elmer fudd would say
OP mbiernat 3 | 107  
30 Sep 2008 /  #39
In Poland I teach English, but really I am software geek. I have a family in Poland. My roots were from Poland (gradparents) and I wanted to learn Polish. As the years past, I really felt that it does not matter where you live as everything can not be measured in material wealth. Poland is an amazing place. In Boston I did not have a car either (even though I did quite well and live in Beacon Hill). Cars are just depreciating assets :) which need parking spaces.

I write my own software. I am a techy geek. I can write my software in Boston or in Krakow. It does not matter. See I think my thinking is this. Money is great and all, but you really do not need that much and it does not buy you a spot heaven, only humility and love do.

Remember - The greatest thing in the world is the world itself.

Sorry to post a long quote: But here is fable by Aesop.

A miser sold all that he had and bought a lump of gold, which he buried in a hole in the ground by the side of an old wall and went to look at daily. One of his workmen observed his frequent visits to the spot and decided to watch his movements. He soon discovered the secret of the hidden treasure, and digging down, came to the lump of gold, and stole it. The Miser, on his next visit, found the hole empty and began to tear his hair and to make loud lamentations. A neighbor, seeing him overcome with grief and learning the cause, said, "Pray do not grieve so; but go and take a stone, and place it in the hole, and fancy that the gold is still lying there. It will do you quite the same service; for when the gold was there, you had it not, as you did not make the slightest use of it."
dcchris 8 | 432  
30 Sep 2008 /  #40
sorry mb I didnt realize u were over here i thought u were over there
so do you figure they will pass a new bill once they get something that looks like they are actually trying to help the people at least a bit so the house members can get reelected or in to the senate?
OP mbiernat 3 | 107  
30 Sep 2008 /  #41
DC Chris I do not have the answer to that one. I think they will pass something. Pun not intended. Me being more free market I would rather see the money going into rewarding the profitable and innovative or reinvested in tech or infustructure rather than patching up business that fail and do not know how to run themselves. Give me a piece of that money, and I know for a fact I would create more jobs than any of those big fat companies will. I would employ programmer's and do all kinds of creative things with it that would be involved in wealth creation. Those fat companies will not create anything innovative to bring america to the next level

Good news is money or not money intellectual capital IMO is more important than strickly Financial capital, look at sergy from google.
outintheyard 27 | 517  
1 Oct 2008 /  #42
mbiernat , we need more people with your thinkin g in the US government. I enjoy reading your posts
southern 75 | 7,095  
1 Oct 2008 /  #43
Guys american economy simply needs a new war to breath.Obama proposes a new war in Pakistan,Mc Cain's agenda contains a war against Iran.Without war there can be no burst for US economy.

American IQ is only 99.So most of the intellectual capital to invest lies outside US and companies know that.(why do they prefer outsourcing?).Europe has intellectual capacity(mobile innovations in Finland despite low population) to stand on its feet and Russia has huge resources which can protect.China has the cheap workforce.So USA can rely only on its army to get a result that is gain better conditions for borrowing money and selling its products.
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535  
1 Oct 2008 /  #44
So USA can rely only on its army

what happens when all of asia have been attacked.... who will be next :S ? What do you think :S....?
outintheyard 27 | 517  
1 Oct 2008 /  #45
No war ever helped anyones economy Someone down the road pays for it. The Us would be better to let other countries do there own thing and only assit the UN on terrorist problems.
southern 75 | 7,095  
1 Oct 2008 /  #46
No war ever helped anyones economy

WW1:USA richer than ever after the war end with England,France owing huge amounts of money
WW2:Before the war unemployment in USA 10%,during the war 0%.Increase of profits by armament sales,GB owing huge amounts of money to USA.US prosperity,american dream.Marshal plan possible.

Every war hepled US economy.Gulf war in 1990,Iraqi freedom operation in 2003.Don't you see how much the stocks rise every time a new war is declared?
OP mbiernat 3 | 107  
1 Oct 2008 /  #47
That is a good point about war not helping people's economy. See a lot of people simply say, "yes, lets just a war and this will stimulate the economy". Besides the most important thing, loss of life.

War does not stimulate the economy in any meaningful way, it hurts the economy.

Let me explain. War is a huge fiscal stimulation. The tax payers buy bombs and bullets (instead of investing in the US). The arms dealers and makers, make money. The weapons are shipped somewhere and used. To me that is money going out of the economy. It is better we take it from people and burn the money. That same taxpayer money could have been spent on something meaningful and long term, in the US, if you believe in fiscal stimulus. Or incentives for innovation. Its called the crowding out effect. Government spending of taxpayer dollars (that go out of the US) crowds out private investment and leadership.

You know the US did not even have taxes until after WWI, No income tax that is, and really fought no major foreign wars until WWI. And we got rich. You do not need war to create wealth. Its a stupid idea.
outintheyard 27 | 517  
1 Oct 2008 /  #48
In a democratic society One must go through recession and ups and downs. This is how the free market works. The Us economy is actually not that bad unlike what the media is telling the world. It was the computer ERA that made people rich not a war. You see this is the problem with countries like Russia where the government controls all the business and No inovation leads to eventuall collapse as will Venezuella and other countries adopting these policies. You can't rely on just oil profits . The demand is slowing and they will take a huge hit.

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