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Abkhazia and South Ossetia are independent states now! Poland reaction?


celinski 31 | 1,258  
16 Sep 2008 /  #211
rejected the idea for an independant committee.

For what reason's? As in "independant by whom" I guess would be the key?
southern 73 | 7,071  
16 Sep 2008 /  #212
They are afraid that it will show clear responsibility of Georgia since Steinhard has already declared so.
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
16 Sep 2008 /  #213
In Russia they just shot the media.

If you know it as good as a time of a day in Russia, then yes, they did.
Actually you may still see independent media.
randompal 7 | 306  
16 Sep 2008 /  #214
i just saw a very interesting short film on Youtube about the FSB, the media, and a bungled bombing attempt (by the FSB). Type "assassination of Russia" into the search window, pick out the English-lang version, and enjoy, would be interested in your feedback.
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
16 Sep 2008 /  #215
Type "assassination of Russia"

"FSB bombs Russia" originally I guess. I watched it. I can't exclude it's true as well as "the US bombs towers".
GeoLawyer - | 20  
16 Sep 2008 /  #216
The New York Times: Georgia Offers Fresh Evidence on War's Start
nytimes.com/2008/09/16/world/europe/16georgia.html?pagewanted=3&_r=1&hp

I hope it's just beginning. I hope everything will be exposed soon. I am sure that Russia with its government, this uncivilized country is a huge threat to all the nations and to the entire civilized world.

Georgia is now a victim of a brutal aggression initiated by Russia and its cronies in the Caucasus. The criminal regime that the Russians set up in South Ossetia has accused Georgia of genocide against the Ossetian people. This is a terrible lie and another Kremlin-sponsored provocation. Georgia has always been a multi-national countries that has been home to Georgians, Jews, Ossetians, Armenians, and Abkhazians among others. All these nations have lived in Georgia peacefully for many centuries.

Georgia is not waging a war against Ossetians, Georgians have lived side by side with Ossetians for centuries. Georgia is defending itself from the Russian nationalists who sit in Kremlin and what to annex Georgian land to rebuild an empire that is long gone.

The real genocide happened in Ossetia in the late 1980s and early 1990s when Russian-backed thugs and the Russian military expelled 40,000 Georgian civilians from their homes and killed thousands more.

This is a war in which a small but proud nation fights for its right to exist against a superpower that wants to destroy it.

Today Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has confessed that Russia has exaggerated the use of force during the military operation in Georgia, however, he added that it was difficult to determine targets in war.

''Extra activities were from both sides, but it was a war. When you see that the enemy opens fire at night, you are not marching but running to help Tskhinvali, it is difficult to fire exactly as much as necessary,'' Labrob said after his return from Abkhazia and Tskhinvali to Moscow.

Lavrov has also reported the details of his meeting with Terry Hacala. According to the Russian minister, the OSCE has not yet agreed to accept South Ossetian delegation in the conflict resolution negotiations




  • Protest against Russian aggression in Tbilisi, Georgia

  • against Russian aggression in Tbilisi, Georgia

  • Human chain against Russian occupation
randompal 7 | 306  
16 Sep 2008 /  #217
a quote from the article you cited: "New Western intelligence also emerged last week showing that.."

we know how reliable Western intel is (not that the Russian sort is any more reliable)...
Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
16 Sep 2008 /  #218
Independent Georgia is in europe and usa interest. It is good that european commision has decided to help this country in rebuilding. They should have right to make their own choices.
randompal 7 | 306  
16 Sep 2008 /  #219
They should have right to make their own choices.

too bad one of their choices included sending some rocket fire to South Ossetia's capital. Ooops.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,818  
16 Sep 2008 /  #220
They should have right to make their own choices.

Well....so did Nazi-Germany...the neighbours didn't like it! :(
Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
16 Sep 2008 /  #221
too bad one of their choices included sending some rocket fire to South Ossetia's capital. Ooops.

In my opinion Poland should act inversely to advices given by some "dark" members of this forum.

If you want to talk about morals. In my opinion many Georgians was expelled from SO. It should be checked who started this mess. We need to remember that it is Russia officialy crying that SU was such dream and that in future gas pipelines are going to be their tanks. We can't accept such actions because there is Russian miniority in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine. In integral parts of their countries may appear some troubles. It is the best thing to try to solve this issue in way that Georgia will be last country with such problems. Because Lavrov with his proposal sounded more like pre WWII leaders.
southern 73 | 7,071  
16 Sep 2008 /  #222
It should be checked who started this mess.

There is no doubt about that.
randompal 7 | 306  
16 Sep 2008 /  #223
It should be checked who started this mess.

I checked, and the answer is greed over energy and land, and a thirst for power. There are probably a few guilty parties, not just one side right and the other wrong. Of course the usual actors are: Russia, USA, Israel, the arms merchants, and the energy consortiums, plus the devil himself.
Seanus 15 | 19,670  
16 Sep 2008 /  #224
Once again, spot on randompal. U've summed it up in a nutshell
Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
16 Sep 2008 /  #225
I checked, and the answer is greed over energy and land, and a thirst for power.

I would add we consumers too.
Georgians should have right to choose friends.

Cheers.
Seanus 15 | 19,670  
16 Sep 2008 /  #226
Oh, they should have the right to choose friends, they just must bear the consequences.
celinski 31 | 1,258  
23 Sep 2008 /  #227
Now is this a surprise? We must save our citizen's.

Moscow Can Now Offer Russian Citizenship to Eight Million Ukrainians

According to that newspaper, "those who want to receive a Russian passport do not need to live on the territory of the [Russian] Federation for five years, provide evidence of the source of their incomes or demonstrate a knowledge of Russian" if they are former citizens of the USSR and were born on the territory of Russia.

georgiandaily.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7923&Itemid=65
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,818  
23 Sep 2008 /  #228
Georgia and Ukraine 'shouldn't join Nato'

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7623240.stm

Who started the war?

The IISS intervention shows that following the war in Georgia, a debate is growing about whether a confrontational approach to Russia is the best one.

The IISS is critical of Georgia's actions during the conflict

The IISS is highly critical of Georgian actions - in contrast to the support Georgia has received from the US and some European countries, notably Britain....

It always takes awhile but cooler heads prevail in the end..
Seanus 15 | 19,670  
24 Sep 2008 /  #229
Ukraine was actually against what Russia did. That further complicates things. Cooler heads prevail, true enough, but Russia may force a different approach. Only time will tell
southern 73 | 7,071  
24 Sep 2008 /  #230
Moscow Can Now Offer Russian Citizenship to Eight Million Ukrainians

Eight million?Not 48 million?
celinski 31 | 1,258  
25 Sep 2008 /  #231
Moscow Can Now Offer Russian Citizenship to Eight Million Ukrainians

Rice says Russia more authoritarian

"Russia's attack fits into a worsening pattern of behavior over several years - among other things, its use of oil and gas as tools of coercion, its threat to target peaceful nations like Poland with nuclear weapons, and its curtailment of law and liberty at home," she said. "The emerging picture is an increasingly authoritarian and aggressive Russia."

"Our strategic goal now is to make it clear to Russia's leaders that their choices are putting Russia on a one-way path to self-imposed isolation and international irrelevance," Rice said.

iht.com/articles/ap/2008/09/25/europe/EU-Poland-US-Russia.php

"The delegates began to discuss the war between Russia and Georgia first thing in the morning, but only 26 members were able to speak. Most of them criticized both Russia and Georgia with extreme severity. "There is a concept in criminal law of premeditated crime," said Swede Goran Lindblad. "This war was a premeditated crime. We know, for example, that the Russian 58th Army was ready for the war in advance. The premeditation on Russia's side is obvious. On Georgia's side too. The only difference is that Georgia acted on its own territory and Russia invaded another. Both are completely unacceptable."

"The Russian delegates talk about some new world order, but what they call a new world order is the really same old Soviet world order. And that is unacceptable."

Mikhail Zygar, Strasbourg
All the Article in Russian as of Oct. 01, 2008

kommersant.com/p1033925/r_527/Russia_Georgia_South_Ossetia_conflict_PACE
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
1 Oct 2008 /  #232
that the Russian 58th Army was ready for the war in advance

Of course they were. It has been said for many times (by medvezhenok as well). Otherwise reconnaissance party would eat the bread of idleness. Afterall it was quite stupid to cherish the hopes till the last moment Saakashvili was sane.
southern 73 | 7,071  
1 Oct 2008 /  #233
Of course they were

One more reason the Georgians should not have attacked in first place.
celinski 31 | 1,258  
2 Oct 2008 /  #234
Very interesting as PACE asks for release of info.

kommersant.com/page.asp?id=1034374
GeoLawyer - | 20  
16 Oct 2008 /  #235
Statement of the Minister of Justice with regard to Order Delivered by the International Court of Justice: Nika Gvaramia, Minister of Justice of Georgia, has made a statement on today's Order delivered by the International Court of Justice regarding the Application filed by Georgia against the Russian Federation on indication of provisional measures based upon the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination:
"I would like to inform the society on this great victory, which has been achieved by the Georgian state in The Hague at the International Court of Justice. Today the International Court of Justice has delivered its Order according to which all requirements submitted by the Georgian side have been fully satisfied.

Source: justice.gov.ge/siaxle_eng.html
OP ConstantineK 26 | 1,389  
17 Oct 2008 /  #236
Ah, again these meaningless words!

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