Abkhazia and South Ossetia are independent states now! Poland reaction?

On the contrary my friend, Russia had the right to do this. They have stood by for too long and let Kosovo and Iraq happen. Kosovo and Iraq were never Allied territory, Georgia WAS once part of Russia, Stalin was born there in fact.

They followed through on democratic process, as an American u can have no objection to that. The truth is that these regions wanted independence. Rumour has it that ethnic cleansing was taking place. Russia now has a plan to unite the two Ossetia's to name it Alanina or sth like that. Good on them. Ossetia will become an autonomous unit.

It was an opportune moment, much attention was being focussed on the Olympics. Russian troops are withdrawing AND ensuring that these regions have a voice.

They don't have the right to do this, neither the west had the right to recognize Kosovo. I find it funny how European and American politician hypocritically forbid Russia acting in this manner. They raise exactly the same arguments that they completely rejected when deciding about Kosovo. Question arise from what directions should trouble-making countries like Russia take example if those whom declare themselves to be champions of justice are in fact an obvious liars. If they don't respect the rules that they wrote themselves, how we could expect that developing countries will stick to this?

How about ordinary voters whom supported Kosovo independence, do they learned something or still wait for more to come? Take it for granted!

Well, if it is against international law, as u propose, why isn't Russia being taken to some form of court?

Why not? Because international law is a joke. How law is swept to one side in the face of political maneuvering.

Where was the objection from the two states? Sure, there should've been some form of referendum, consonant with democratic process, but human's lack of caring has been exposed. If it were so abhorrent and anathema to international law, where was the great international response?

You are absolutely right, Seanus.

By the way, I could not say the same about Kosovo.

Long live Russia and their nations!

I haven't seen one provision that has been breached. Please, sb show me which international law has been violated.

Russia has the right to be a mediator

NATO gave Serbia the oportunity to join the NWO and build up a native elite who in return for militaric submission would/will join the existing structures to proceed in favour of the propertied class. Russia never offered anything like this to Georgia. THIS is the difference between the Soviets and the Americans - and the reason why people rather cope with america.

CONFERENCE ON SECURITY AND CO-OPERATION IN EUROPE FINAL ACT
HELSINKI 1975
osce.org/documents/mcs/1975/08/4044_en.pdf

(...)
[b]IV. Territorial integrity of States

The participating States will respect the territorial integrity of each of the participating States.

Accordingly, they will refrain from any action inconsistent with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations against the territorial integrity, political independence or the unity of any participating State, and in particular from any such action constituting a threat or use of force.

The participating States will likewise refrain from making each other's territory the object of military occupation or other direct or indirect measures of force in contravention of international law, or the object of acquisition by means of such measures or the threat of them. No such occupation or acquisition will be recognized as legal.


You even don't hide your pro-Russian bias. You clearly accept double standards.

HA-HA-HA..... If you want to learn what it is (double standards!), you should apply for the help to White House and EU.

What is it if not double standards. If let's say Pole likes Russia (s)he's pro-Russian and biased but if (s)he likes the US, then (s)he's just another fine Pole.


I've explained for couple times the difference between these two cases. Anyway I don't support neither of them to be independent.

Those of us who can read, could read above how I accuse the west about double standards.

If a member of some group/family stole your pocket and because of this you feel justified to steal pockets of people whom belong to this group/family then you are also an ugly thieve like him.


No, it depend how would you define this "liking". Also this is not about nationality. Hypothetically, if a person without national identification try to justify (without any particular personal interest) misbehavior of some state it means that he is biased. Hopefully we both agree that 'biased people' exist?

it's too tragical that putin and medvedev have to decide the fate of the ancient georgian territories: abkhazia and so called osetia , which is known through centuries as shida kartli, integral part of georgia, as georgian is translated as kartveli, so it is kartli the root of georgia sakartvelo...russian imperialists always have wanted georgia without georgians, therefore they used ethnic separatist people [by promising them to grant the georgian territories]against ethnic georgians, accomplishing this by ethnic cleansing in this regions [1991-1993] so ethnic georgians in order to survive from russians and ethnic separatists had to ran away from their own territories[82% refugees from abkhazia and over 55% from so called osetia now live in different places of georgia ] .God will take care of all evil forces , for taking advantage of the small peacefull, loving nation...russian empire will not stop here they will expand their power over other countries as well, people who want to make a peace on the world has to get along with the justice,to face the truth as it is, not judge by temporary benefits they can get from either country, especially as aggressive country as russia is...i think people shouldn't forget about the cold war period,russia's invasion of afganistan, czechoslovakia, how they kept many republics within soviet union by force, east europe and many others...some people may think why they should care about the small nation of georgia , but they forgot that they can be the next and what policy russian imperialists will pursue it can affect the whole world... the truth is that Georgia have never ''invaded'' the territory of ''others'', but georgia has refugees from it's own territorie of abkhasia 82% of ethnic georgians and over 55% from so called ''osetia''...this is the tragical history of the country how it was invaded by russian communists and artificially splitted into so called ''ethnic parts'' in order to better oppresse and enslave the georgia, as they knew, that this small nation has high national self-selfcnsciousness and would want to claim their independence...anybody who wants to comment on this please imagine yourself, if someone will come into your country to live and later on claim their recognition as an independent country on your own territory what you would feel or do, where you would seek the justice,especially when you are the small ,but in the meantime the unique country who survived through centuries from multiple muslim attacks and later by russians, do you think that the nation should be eradicated and swallowed by the strong country? do you think it would bring the peace on the world , if you think it would, than maybe georgians should be considered as the scapegoats for the sake of the peace on the world, but again i strongly believe that Georgia wouldn't be the last one that russia would like to invade and inslave,as this is the essential aspiration of russian empire... i wanted to appeal to countries all over the world not to judge by temporariry benefits they are getting from russia,don't forget germany and russia had good relationships in the late 30-ies but it didn't prevent the second world war,so those who will not support peaceful , loving nation of rep. of georgia and their territorial integrity and will have empathy of russian aggressors,might have the feedback boomeranged back to them , as this war is not about georgia, but who will control the east europe, middle east , central asai and whole world! God bless all the nations who support justice, peace,freedom, territorial integrity , sovereignty,democracy of all countries on the world!... wake up the world for the peace on the world and stop russia before it's not too late... aggresive demon has been resuscitated after 1990-ies, it has to be stopped united peacefully, diplomatically , by blocking their economy... nobody wants the war, everybody wants to live on their own territory peacefully...

Crap. The rest of text is the same...
I just wonder where did you get all these? Made it up yourself?

You are absolutely right, Sasha! It's a real crap, nothing more!

There is no such thing as an "independent state" if it has been created or "liberated" by Russians.

Russia's meaning of "independent state" is "occupied by Russia".

Funny I said the same thing about the US and Iraq/Afghanistan to someone else earlier today...

I can't and won't claim the US intervenes in various countries for humanitarian and social reasons, but let's face it - I would much prefer for Poland to be defeated by the US (see Germany) and be the best friends with the Russians.

In fact, during commie times in Poland there was a saying - let's declare war on the US and let's surrender the day they invade Poland in response - life will be much better then.

I don't know much, but I guess US intervention in Germany and Japan did some good...but that was a whole other time with an entirely different cast of people...

Now we're in Iraq and Afghanistan, sure Saddam in Iraq, and the Taliban in Afghanistan were a$$holes, but the quality of life is worse in many parts because of this mismanaged fiasco, all hell has broken loose without us or anyone else showing any know-how to turn the situation around, we just have to wait for people to calm down...

Is that what they were doing with tanks?

they needed the tanks to push back the georgian attack. It was Georgia that attacked SO on August 7th

And what for Russia need the tanks today?

Let me guess - to occupy Georgia, because it was Georgia that was occupying herself on August 7th? :D

Don't worry if it wasn't and a Russian try's to tell,

"Russian journalist killed in attack" Russia has long been considered one of the most dangerous countries in the world for journalists. More than a dozen reporters have been slain in contract-style killings since 2000 including Anna Politkovskaya, an investigative journalist killed in 2006 after winning acclaim for reporting on atrocities in Chechnya.

theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080903.wrussjournalists0903/BNStory/International

Russia is pretty ****** up, nobody is doubting that (not me at least.) But this Georgia thing is ridiculous. The Georgian president is clearly a madman...

Your US is like a "live cadaver" and it's sponsored by Russian money to surviving.
I can imagine what will happen if Russia withdraws their money at this time.

By the way, before posting such statements about Russia do not forget to take a look in the mirror first.

So you just assume that I'm some flag-waving American? I've posted on other topics at other times about how ****** up the US is. If I say that Russia is ****** up, it doesn't follow that I think the US is great. It's better than many places of course, but there's so much that needs to change... so I think you barkin up the wrong tree pal...

So you just assume that I'm some flag-waving American? I've posted on other topics at other times about how ****** up the US is. If I say that Russia is ****** up, it doesn't follow that I think the US is great. It's better than many places of course, but there's so much that needs to change... so I think you barkin up the wrong tree pal...

[/quote]

So where are you from? Where do you live? Which country?

Russia government is working very hard to make life for russians much better, but there are always "bad boys" who do not want to see Russia in power. They always are trying to set it up with something. The main of these guys are US and GB, which always dreams "to put its dirty and bloody hands" into Russia recources. They never stopped doing this.



Maybe I am wrong...

link please? I would argue this is false, especially wrt Iraq. Things have been going well enough that there are already talks with the Iraqi government on when we can pull out, and they are running a large part of the country themselves already. With ANY war, journalists can go find a bombed out rubble pile and film it, implying that is the entire country. It also isn't difficult to find someone who will say just about anything-and that isn't even just in Iraq.


This is true, realistically, of almost all countries that participate in the world market. However Russia doesn't have the lion share of investment in the US, nor would Russia likely cripple the US economy by withdrawing, although for sure we'd feel it. Worse would be if Japan, China, Saudi Arabia-those pulled their money.

Likewise, Russia would also suffer if everyone pulled their money from Russia. So, it's not saying much, really.


If you mean buying Russian made products, yes, we do. However, I would remind you that the Republic of Georgia does not qualify as "Russia resources". You are correct, however, in that not everyone wants Russia to be in power, too many people remember the last time "Russia was in power". Stalin was by far smarter (IMHO) than Hitler and played the chess game well, unfortunately many many people suffered in order for him to make USSR "great". In the US we've walked over people in the past, and are paying reparations to their great great grandchildren in some cases. Russia, however, is not so benevolent from what I've seen.

John P.

Not quite true - we have our own "resources" And I think that the British response has been a diplomatic one, there is a lot of Russian investment in the UK and a lot of British companies operating in Russia, it serves no purpose to cut off our nose to spite our face!

This is not Russia's but I am glad you pointed out your true feeling. When others can live in peace without Russia thinking they can just take others land for oil Russia can grow.

see this...

Nicaragua joins Russia in recognizing South Ossetia, Abkhazia

Wed, 03 Sep 2008 15:24:58 GMT
earthtimes.org/articles/show/229515,nicaragua-joins-russia-in-recognizing-south-ossetia-abkhazia.html