New York Post : "Polish" Death Camps and more

Europe will be better off shedding the shackles of this foreign, un-european, middle eastern, desert religion.
We will be stronger once we find back to our real roots!

Boche roots no doubt.

Well...it precedes all nationstates...:)

But maybe you feel really more in common with the Arabs and the Jews than with your fellow Europeans...your choice!

Lifelong house arrest for Galileo for having directly and publicly insulted the Pope, not for being a scientist. His celestial orbit theory wasn't even the right one. He believed in the perfect circular orbit, as opposed to Copernicus' elliptical. Further, his punishment was really extremely light given the times. Hell, they even provided him with servants.

Please do feel free to tell us all the injustices suffered by these scientists, particularly Copernicus, and under what charges and for what reasons (my net is screwing with me, so I can't kill that one directly). Because last I checked, Copernicus had his book published through his friend the Bishop, dedicated it to the Pope, and died an old man, peacefully, in his bed. Of a stroke.

From what I recall of Bruno, he was the only scientist to ever have been killed during the Inquisition, probably more because he was a Pantheist than a scientist, seeing as the Church funded and supported scientific advancements on a regular basis. Unless I'm thinking of someone else, I'm not particularly sure.

And do share with us the extreme horrors inflicted upon Charles Darwin, other than the naming of the Darwin Award.


You do know the Inquisition only had authority over proclaimed Christians, right?
The politics of the time mandated, through no extraordinary majoritarian discriminatory policy, certain privileges available for Christians that were not for other religious groups. The purpose was to determine the actual Christianity of people who proclaimed themselves Christians in order to obtain said privileges, as to declare such and continue with other practices and teachings was also common practice in those times. Still not exactly humane by modern standards, but I'm betting that's not what you thought it was either.

On the other hand, you could tell me about Jews living in Polish lands, Poles living in German lands, French living in British lands, and Italians living in Spanish lands on a regular basis being nothing unusual in Middle Ages Europe, sharing as they did a common faith and in many ways identity, whereas one still can't get various regional ethnicities in Africa to mix today.


Everybody had to... be a clergyman? Are you serious?
And everyone that wasn't a clergyman was tortured and killed?
Or even nearly everybody?
Or even a majority?
Or even a significant minority?
Let's not kid ourselves, here. You can't claim that Copernicus became a clergyman because he was afraid of being tortured and killed otherwise. Seriously. It doesn't work. And whatever that source you quoted, you should stop reading it, because the person who wrote it was apparently retarded. "Feared for their lives", indeed!

Well..it's kind of like during the Nazi- or Commie times...
When you were some peasant in some remote little village it didn't matter as much as if you tried to achieve something. For centuries there was no way to get somewhere without using the monopol the Church had.

So yes...it was important that you had the right belief, the right connections etc., don't play daft here!

But it's really fruitless to talk with religious nutters.
I just take pleasure in watching the church struggle to get heard anymore at all.
What a power the Vatican once was now he must watch what he says...who takes them seriously anymore! What a fall from grace...still falling...:)


<

Well apart from that BB, what have the Christians ever done wrong? ;)

Someone will come shouting for a link soon.

Power hungry man seems to always want to manipulate and therefore control other people.
A waste of time if you ask me, look with in yourselves.

Thanks for your post now I can post the rest too...(somehow it didn't work first)

captaincynic.com/thread/48859/christian-crimes-against-humanity.htm

Okay...and on it goes:


What a blessing they were for mankind...(sarcasm)

BB

Stop quoting your captainbullcrap.com site and check the thread below...

polishforums.com/off-topic-lounge-deletable-47/votes-nazis-35295/3/#msg689404

...where we already discussed the Holy Inquisition issue :)

"Estimated one million victims (Cathar heresy alone)" - what a load of bull.



Well, if you chose not to believe the message then obviously you wouldn't
believe in hell. So what kind of threat are you talking about? How can you
be scared of something you don't even believe in? ;)

On a more serious note - not all who believe the message will be saved
and not all who reject it will be condemned. Faith alone or lack of it is not
enough to determine the outcome of the Judgement Day for an individual.

Actually, Catholic Church has never, ever, in an offcial document or book
stated that a particular person is in hell. Not even in the case of great
villains like Hitler or Stalin. We don't know who will be saved and who won't.
We can have some clues and suspicions but that's all. The final decision
is for God to make.

Well...he saved me the work! :)
But he surely overlooked alot...2000 years can be damned long when you are on the wrong end of the stick!


That's nice!

Pagans even don't have that hassle...we don't need any "saving" at all...not being born sinners in the first place, isn't that much nicer!

Talking about pagans and being born - a newborn to be more precise. Pagans in Carthage
worshipped the demon Moloch and threw their newborn babies into furnaces to be burned
alive so it would bring Carthaginian merchants luck in their trade and commerce.

Are you the pagan of Carthaginian sort, BB, or do you belong to a different branch of
the same religion?


Oh, it is nice indeed to be devoid of sin like the pagans are (sarcasm).

Everything is better than what the Christian did in the name of their god Torqi....your tactic is not working.

The mass murder in the last centuries in the name of the christian god are uncomparable with anything the Pagans could ever do.
(Not to mention that 2000 years of christian brainwashing still left their traces on some weak minded)

And yes, it is a much nicer and much more natural way for a litttle baby to come into this world without being burdened by a mysterious sin it will have to repent for the whole life!

But to answer your question, my germanic ancestors had their own set of deities...but none of them to bow slavishly to.
A quite independent, free spirited lot my pagan ancestors where! :)

That's debatable - I'd say that what Nazis did in the name of their "master-race"
or what communists did in the name of their sick ideology is much worse.


It's not tactics - it called THE TRUTH.


:)

You really don't have a clue about Christanity, do you?

For your information, when the baby is baptized, which in Catholic Church happens
soon after the baby's born, the original sin (because I assume that's what you're
rumbling on about :)) is washed away.

Well..the Wehrmacht marched with "Gott mit uns" on their beltbuckles.
Says everything, really...
And Communism was not really much different...they had their saints, their gods, their holy books, dissidents were killed...


More than I ever wanted...

Do you listen to yourself?
"washed away"...an "original sin" on a NEWBORN...that is just perverse! Both notions actually, that a human being is born with a sin and that said sin can be washed away...you are crazy!

But then, that is coming from the same people who get ordered around by God himself! :):):)

Not as perverse as throwing the same NEWBORN baby to be burned alive in a furnace
as your pagan brothers in Carthage used to do.

Do you have a link to that?

PS: You know that Paganism is no universal belief like Christianity, don't you?
Every people has their own, natural grown set of traditions, customs and beliefs...no claim of having the universal answer for everybody here!

G.K. Chesterton in his book "Everlasting Man", in the chapter "The War of Gods and Demons," wrote:


I will find you a link to the entire chapter of Chesterton's book in a moment...

EDIT:
Here it is...
worldinvisible.com/library/chesterton/everlasting/part1c7.htm

...and the whole book:

worldinvisible.com/library/chesterton/everlasting/content.htm

Great read, even if you're not a Christian.

I found also something about them: Quite uneuropean...no germanic tradition!


forerunner.com/champion/nothing_new.html

theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/child_sacrifices.htm

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_paganism

The first is the blatant and obnoxious try from right wing christian hardcore nutters to defame the rights of the women for abortions, just crap...no surprise here.

Child sacrifices were not common between the european pagans.

But the second...you bet! :)

PS: Did you actually read the article Torq? ROFL :):):)

Children are indoctrinated into the religions because of where and when they were born, it is not a choice.


I am talking about the psychological terrorist threat of hell.


I don't believe in hell, well except for that place in Norway.


There is no God.

I did not before now, know that you were religious Torq.

Not true. I wasn't raised a Catholic, but many of my friends who were brought up
in Catholic families strayed away from the Church and aren't Christians anymore.


That's what you believe. I believe that there is.


Well, I am. I'm not only a Catholic, but also a traditional, conservative Catholic.
The Radio Maryja family are a bunch of liberals and modernists compared to me :)

Oh boy...and you seemed to be such a nice chap!

You were not raised a Catholic but you are now?.
That is unusual, what were you raised?.


Why?.


But I bet you don't get half the funding Rydzyk gets? ;)

Hey - I am a nice chap! (not to the baby burning pagans though ;))


Yes.


I was raised a free man, able to make my own choice when it comes to religion.


If I said that "I know that there is God" then you could ask me "Why?".
I said that I believe - it is faith not knowledge that we're talking about.
As for my personal reasons, they are personal so I'd rather keep them
to myself.


That's true :(

That is fine!
It's the "god gave us...,"god told me so...","god promised us..."part where most have difficulties with.
Especially when it comes to policies which influence millions of lives.

Man I brought the thread back on topic!!! *applauds himself*

It's good to have at least one member who reminds us that
there's supposed to be die ordnung in threads ;)

Where were you raised a free man?.
Wouldn't have been good old Poland, would it?, sure that is only 90% Catholic.

Or do you think you would have converted to Catholicism if you were brought up in Canada 3000 years ago?.

I was raised in Poland and spent most of my life here. My Father was into the hippie
movement in the 70's (it was funny as feck to see those old photos of the old man
with long hair, wearing flowers in his hair :)), he was never much into religion and
my Mum was always influenced by him, so I wasn't raised in a religious family
(not counting my grandmother who first prayed and the put curses on my old man
on numerous occasions :)).

My Parents never forced me to do anything and they raised me a free man, allowing
me to make my own choice about religion. This is exaclty how I am going to raise
my kids. If they choose to be Catholics, I'll be very happy, if they don't - I won't
mind.


I'm a very down to earth, sensible man - not much into asking myself questions like
"If elephants were pink and could fly, would they fly higher or lower than sparrows".

I think this is a good idea.
I have a few friends who had agnostic or atheist parents, funny thing is they get very curious about religion.



Sometimes, after all you do believe in a God.

And that example of the elephants and sparrows was not very persuasive or even on target.

I didn't experience any kind of revelation like a burning bush or anything like that.
I reached my faith through lecture and contemplation and also cetrain personal
experience but, as I said, it's very personal to me and I'm not willing to share it
on a public forum.


Probably not, but you know what I meant.

I would only like to notice that the thread is being dragged off-topic again (not by me ;))