Polish/German/Russian relations

Stupid excuse...

It is fair to say that Poles at that time saved Europe from bolshevics.Because if Russians entered Germany who was going to stop them?Germany had only 100.000 soldiers and no ammunition after the Versailles treaty.40.000 armed german communists waited for the russian army to enter to start revolution.

A much refined title in Russian is Gaspodin/ Gaspodina, since you are not French, a more fitting title to address you would be tovarich.

I do not like woman gaspada.Better the polish word pani.

I am not naive. It`s logic...

Tell me, what would you suggest instead of Democratic Slavic Union- Slavia?

Domination of some privileged elite or some privileged Slavs? I refuse that! Or, maybe you suggest that Slavs don`t need Slavic Union? Assimilation in global Corporate `Republik` is inevitable without Union!

I see Slavia as ultimate shalter for Slavic heritage, not only for Slavs but for all citizens of Slavic Union. Slavia would offer different concept then Europen Union (true tolerance- based on Slavic `green` approach, not false- as EU propose due to German/Germanic-Anglo Saxon domination). Then, Slavia won`t force her citizes on racial mixing (via media pressure, via destruction of nations, etc), just to ensure that ruling elite can `rightfully` claim heritage of all assimilated ethoses (like some kind of EU/USA Borg). It is on all individuals to have choice and it is on civilizations/people to live side by side, to be different, to contribute to this Earth thru mutual coexstance and cooperation. Differences are good, Borg is not good.

If it is destined (if so? Maybe, it isn`t destined) that humans tru time combine in one `super- race` then let it be so. But, even then it is process and it must be natural process (for many 1000 of years), not forced just to satisy selfishness of some elite.

Let civilizations/individuals with all their unique differences, live without pressure and let we develop and express all our potentials, on behalf of humankind.

Crow tell us.If Putin proposed to Serbia to become the 19th province of Russia,like he proposed to Belarus,would you accept?

Considering current situation (!), I would support that Serbia negotiate about her position inside of Russian federation- in case of Russian proposal in that dirrection. Even that seams batter then false world of EU (batter yes, not best; Slavia is best).

Even if Russia provide sustain conditions for that `relation` I would feel that I am (Serbs) greatly betrayed from Russian elite. It is because I see different Slavic Union (Serbs expect that Russia send them call for Slavic Union or that Serbia send call to Russia), I see Slavia on the end of our efforts for Unity. Slavia should provide salvation to all our internal-Slavic differences and in the same time teach us how to live with those differences- on behalf of all our children. Also, I would support that Slavia as state create conditions that all Slavic nations thru time evolve into one great Slavic nation/culture (something like concept of Americans) but, without any form of pressure.

It must be Slavic Union, not extended Russia.

To Constantine...

"Do You think that we forget 1610? And Poles in Kremlin? "

You are right. We shouldn't go there. But unfortunately You don't know why it all **** happened. We had ultra-catholic king Zygmunt III the stupid. Our noblity and sejm was against this war. Hetman Zołkiewski was against too. This was the private war of the king, pope and some border magnates (lithuanian). And do You remember about polish emissaries to talk about creation of union? Like union between Poland and Lithuania? Why did Russians refuse it? Of course You had right to do it but this was a gesture of bad will.

"Do You think that we forget S. Batory?"

What i remember is that Ivan Grozny attacked first. He attacked inflants and Polock. Maybe now Polock is Russian but that time it wasn't that certain. You assume that Ruthenia is all Russia but it's not true.

Do You thin that we fogive 1815 and Polish gussars in the Napoleon's Armade?

Hahaha...don't forgive. Nobody needs that. They fought aside Napoleon to have free polish state again. If You remember Commonwealth (after partitions) was under Russian (and Prussian and Austrian) rule then. Napoleon fought against Prussia nad Russia. Both powers and enemies who cut polish and lithuanian land on pieces. Ask yourself better "Why shouldn't we fight with You?" And what the hell your eastern orthodox cathedral was doing in front of Saxon Palace in Warsaw? And why Polish people couldn't learn and speak polish? You expect that Polish people will sit and wait for their culture to become extinct?

it's the some problem You have with Lithuania, Latvia and especially Estonia now.

Do You think that we forget Boleslav The Brave?

Again...What Russia has to do with Boleslav the Brave? You again assume that Kiev state is Russia. That whole Ruthenia is Russia=Moscovy. This is what is the most sick thing about Russians. Their delusions. Where is russian speaking person or eastern orthodox religion or Slavs! there is Russia! Boleslav the Brave, it's a problem between Ukraine and Poland.

Besides it's no problem at all. And Duchy of Moscovy has existed since 1263...Boleslav the Brave is not your part of history. Kiev is the beginning of Ruthenian Christian history not Moscow. It;s Ukrainian history and you try to seize it. First You seize its history then country itself.

Do You think that we forgive you Your sharp distinctions from Us?

And who has inferiority complex? Even if we distinct...why does it hurt Russia so much? Maybe we distinct because Russian friendship is deadly.

замедлять

Did you know Bratwurst boy that it was Britain who discovered DNA....alot of scientists around the world call this discovery alone the ''8th wonder of the world''.....We also started the Industrial Revolution which changed the way we all live, and a Londoner in California invented the World Wide Web....The impact of that alone on the world is obvious....Infact a French research afew years ago discovered that Britain has invented 54% of the worlds marketable inventions. When a Pole or a Russian wants to boast to everyone on this site about there famous people...They end up listing a bunch of No-Bodies!!.....The best thing about being British is.... all I do is Mention a couple of great Britons off the top of my head.... and I end up running rings around every foreigner on this site!!....There are some people out there who say Britain ''invented the modern world''....All you lot have to your credit is a bunch of poets and composers!!....WOWEE!!


Oh yes sorry I forgot.....It was Bomber Command that bombed the hell out of those fearsome people!!

and ofcoarse we are all communicating with each other in my language.....I rest my case.

The bomber will always get through. In this case it's idiots. The guest posters are getting restless. Squadron scramble.

Now i'm pretty sure it said somewhere that this is an English speaking board. Yep that'll be it then.

Lucky Johnny Foreigner took the time to learn. Hard to shout and point over the internet. :)

[quote=ajgraham] forgot.....It was Bomber Command that bombed the hell out of those fearsome people!!
Do you have any doubt that if there had been no Russia,now you would write in german?

Southern,

Yes ofcoarse there were Russians....I was speaking from a British point of view....Quoting Bratwurst Boy about his ''Feared Worriers'' Since it was Bomber Command that killed about 3/4 of a million Germans.......I don't think you could say we were ''shaking in our boots''!!


NO....Since Britain is an Island that had the biggest Navy in the world!......No I don't think I would be speaking German.

yeah good thing us Americans didnt get involved .....

This was a polite way of addressing someone in Russia, on par with Pan/ Pani, until the Bolsheviks obliterated social decorum and replaced it with "comrade". Thanks to Polish spirit our culture was kept alive- I still use this, but I am curious as to how many others on this forum use it?

Do you know how many british divisions were in the West?The germans had 180 divisions in the east and 50 divisions in the west.Do you know how big was the soviet army and what ammunition it had?

Is there any battle that the british army won against the germans accept El Alamein,which had no strategic consequences since the americans had already landed in Algeria?

France 1940,Kreta 1941,Africa 1941,Tobruk 1942,Arnhem 1944,even in Normandy the british troops could not penetrate the german front.Had there not been the americans with Patton in France and Italy,the british army would never advance.

The soviets were beasts.They died in masses.British were not prepared to die.


You forget that british airplanes did not exactly bomb the warriors but dropped the bombs in some dense populated cities full of civilians.It is not sth to be proud of and there is doubt if this bombing had any effect on the course of the war at all.

It would just mean that everyone else in Europe would live under the Communist yoke....Since at that time all of Britains trade was done within the Empire. How would that of affected us?

The americans did excellent logistics.How is it possible to have only 300.000 dead in a war and be a winner with the germans have 4.000.000 dead soldiers?

The americans knew how to count the possible soviet losses.For every thousand of dead they gave some ammunition,tracks and food to Russia.To be able to cope with the germans but not to become too strong.And they advanced calculating the number of corpses.

So what has all that got to do with landing an Army on an Island with the biggest Navy in the world??


Was there any battles that the Russians won against the Germans during this period of the war?....The Germans rounded up the Russians in huge pockets, millions at a time....We were all fighting the best Army in the world and had to learn from our mistakes in the same way the Russians had too....But I think we did that in the end....as your mention of El Alamein says....When the inexperienced American Army entered the war for the first time in the desert the Germans hammered them at the Kesserine Pass...Which led Rommel to nick name them....''Englands Italians''.

As for your disrespectful comments about British troops in Normandy....This was because the British and Canadian Army fought the hardcore of the German Army in France....i.e. all of the elite SS Panzer Divisions were stationed around Caen, many were veterans from Russia.....Most of the soldiers fighting on the American side were not even German!!....They were Poles, Russians, Baltic states etc.....but the fierce fighting around Caen did destroyed all of the German tanks....some 2000 in all,.....This enabled that all American hero General Patton to go galloping across France thanks to the Brits with no Germans in front of him....Just to quote the German Chief of staff in Normandy....General Blumentritt....Who was asked after the war about the quality of allied troops opposing him... he said ''As for the British it proved almost impossible to shift them....To counter attack the British always cost us heavy casualties.....As for the Americans they always attacked with zest.....but once they came under artillery fire they usually fell back to their start line!!....Not exactly ''Saving Private Ryan''.

As for Arnhem.... it was a big cock up....but again the Germans the Paratroops fought against....the 9th and 10 SS Panzer Divivsions had come from Russia....and after the Battle had ended they said we were the best troops they had ever fought against.

I could keep going on about General Alexander in Italy....Replacing American troops who had come under fierce resistance at the Gustav Line with British troops!!.....but I I think i've said enough for now....Britain was not the main player in the war, but we can take pride in the part we did play.....The attacks against us comes from envy.


Ofcoarse its something to be proud of....Thats what the plan was.


You mean they out numbered the Germans....and thats why they won!!

how bout you include that all world powers were fighting..
heres some reading for ya!

worldwar-2.net

Yup...Women and Children staying behind whereas the men fought across Europe in the Wehrmacht...chasing Tommies from Dunkirk and Narvik...licking their wounds till help comes!

And for the rest:

All the good about you comes from your predominant german genes, the mighty Angles, Saxons and Vikings!

Cheers! :)


Fact!

No western ally could have won against Germany on their own...they needed to gang up together to wear us down!
Nothing to be proud of!

The ONLY one a German will pay his respect to are the Russians!

You don't have to like them but respect them you must!

*bows*


Crap!

You never met the "hardcore" troops....Our best were all busy in Russia...you fighted against kids from the HJ or second rate units in france for rest and refittting.

Not everything with SS in the name was by 44 "elite"!

No the Americans fought against second rate troops....The main troops defending around caen were the 1st and2nd SS Panzer corps.....Amongs them was the 1st SS Leibstandarte Division....Were they 2nd rate?.....And the 9th SS and 10th SS Divisions were brought back from Russia during Normandy to stop the British and Canadians breaking out. As for the 12th SS HJ Division....Yes they were young boys, but the opinion of both the Allies and Germans was they were probably the best troops in Normandy.


I agree....Some of the SS Divisions were made up of foreign troops and were not too good, but the Divisions in Normandy were German and had received most of there tanks and stuff.....There is a popular myth that goes around about all this that you obviously believe!!


You chased everyone around during this period of the war......Thats what I was talking about....but the Tommies came back for more.... with unfortunate results for Germany!!


Thanks for that compliment Bratwurst Boy....So you admit you believe some of the things i've said??

Think about that...a bunch of inexperienced 17 years old thrown into their first battles being called "the best troops in Normandy"...what does that say about the rest?

GB and Germany shouldn't have fighted each other in the first place...what a waste!

And germans of course fought "on their own"... already in 39 you had Austria, Slovakia and the Soviet Union, against the SU the whole armies from Hungary, Romania, Baltics, Finland, the whole divisions of volunteers from Norway, Belgium, Croatia, Ukraine etc. + Italians, Vichy France and Japanese were keeping most forces of Yanks in the Pacific...

BTW a german on the eastern front :)))))))))))))))))))

A Pole should be silent when people talk about warring!

LOL

Polish flag flown at the Brandenburg Gate after the battle

LOL 2 times.

But never a true polish flag Greggie Boy...the same russian flag flew about your people for the next 50 years!

Without the allies holding the hands of the dumb Polaks you would have gone nowhere!

We took the whole world on...and this world needed 6 years to beat us!
We can still be proud....what does Poland have to show besides being the playground for the grown ups?

ROFL

"Q: What do you do if a Polak throws a hand-grenade at you?

A: Take the pin out and throw it back.

-------------------------------------

Did you hear about the Polish Admiral who wanted to be burried at sea when he died?

Five sailors died digging his grave

To be exact - Gospodin (Gospozha). Yeah, thanks god, i am not french. And the title tovarisch is not to bad than you think.

Germany didn't need help for THAT...A Parade through Warschau:

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  parade_through_Warsa.jpg
  

Union...hemm we would slaughter each other in such union. Especially living together with poleswe would make a blood bath. ;-)))))


See on the result !!!