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Polish-German Relations in the Present


shopgirl 6 | 928  
1 Jul 2007 /  #151
I doubt that all the died people will feel insulted...I read a BBC poll (in the wake of the 60. anniversary of the liberation) that showed that nearly a half of the Brits didn't know about Auschwitz at all!
Lot's of people are not interested...no need to feel insulted!

I'm not surprized at the "Low History IQ" articles. I think more emphasis is placed on math, science and technology in schools. And in US there was a fuss a few years back about "history depends on who's doing the telling" and textbooks were criticised for inaccuracies...
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 12058  
1 Jul 2007 /  #152
We are going to scourge the Third Reich from end to end. We are bombing Germany city by city and ever more terribly in order to make it impossible for her to go in with the war. That is our object, and we shall pursue it relentlessly.

Exactly!

Did you know that this policy was not against Nazis but against the german people? The women and children? To kill as many as possible? A war crime!

Even Churchill himself got qualms after Dresden and ordered Harris to stop:

Any compassion with the victims???
Amathyst 19 | 2700  
1 Jul 2007 /  #153
shopgirl

All Brits are aware of what happened and also aware of the other camps like Belzec, Sobibór and Treblinka, Aushwits was just one of many.

Anyway, Im not going to get in to an argument about this, we should just respect those that died in that awful war and I mean all civillians.
shopgirl 6 | 928  
1 Jul 2007 /  #154
I've said this before, and I will keep saying it...because it's true and it needs to be heard by as many people as possible....

Focusing on pain and suffering holds you firmly to misery. Letting go of pain and suffering releases you to move forward. Everyone has a threshold....meaning that the pain and loss have to diminish to some degree, before the next step can occur. Time helps to relax the pain.

But if you actively contribute to agony and loss, you grow it stronger.
Sometimes we do this unconsciously. Best to be aware of our actions. :)
Amathyst 19 | 2700  
1 Jul 2007 /  #155
Did you know that this policy was not against Nazis but against the german people? The women and children? To kill as many as possible? A war crime!

Does the London blitz ring any bells
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 12058  
1 Jul 2007 /  #156
Do you really want to compare the "London Blitz" with...say...Hamburg....Cologne....Dresden???

All Brits are aware of what happened and also aware of the other camps like Belzec, Sobibór and Treblinka, Aushwits was just one of many.

No....seemingly they are NOT! :)
Amathyst 19 | 2700  
1 Jul 2007 /  #157
Even Churchill himself got qualms after Dresden and ordered Harris to stop:

So that shows you that the English had some compassion and new right from wrong, its unfortunate that Hitler didnt.
shopgirl 6 | 928  
1 Jul 2007 /  #158
So you guys are arguing about ethics and who is guilty of warcrimes?
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 12058  
1 Jul 2007 /  #159
So that shows you that the English had some compassion and new right from wrong, its unfortunate that Hitler didnt.

Rather Churchill did have the foresight to see it wouldn't look good for the conduct of the allies....and he was right till today it's a "black spot"...worthy of everything the Germans did!
Amathyst 19 | 2700  
1 Jul 2007 /  #160
Do you really want to compare the "London Blitz" with...say...Hamburg....Cologne....Dresden???

of course not, but London was just one example, Manchester was bombed badly, whole streets taken out by German bombs. It was a war and civillians get caught in the cross fire, what we didnt do was round women and children up and gas them.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 12058  
1 Jul 2007 /  #161
So you guys are arguing about ethics and who is guilty of warcrimes?

Isn't it interesting Shopgirl that for many there are two kinds of victims? The good (Jews, Poles, etc.) who are demand tears and compassion and the bad ones (Germans)...who are not really victims and don't deserve any feelings at all???

No tears for them!

But beware if Germans mourn their own dead....then they try to "re-write" history and that should NOT be allowed!!!!
shopgirl 6 | 928  
1 Jul 2007 /  #162
No tears for them!

It happens more than you think...
southern 73 | 7071  
1 Jul 2007 /  #163
Exactly!

Did you know that this policy was not against Nazis but against the german people? The women and children? To kill as many as possible? A war crime!
Even Churchill himself got qualms after Dresden and ordered Harris to sto

In fact it was by far the most ineffective strategy to follow.Bombing civilians created supporters for Hitler.German army production remained the same and later grew up.

Only when the americans started applying the dogma of strategic bombing,hitting repeateadly army production plants,energy facilities and oil plants bombing started to have real results on the battlefield.British simply did not believe it was possible to bomb plants with accuracy and chose big,dense populated cities.The result was that even more homeless and desperate germans joined Wehrmacht decided to fight till the end.The supplies to the front were not affected at all because war economy is very different from economy during peace.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 12058  
1 Jul 2007 /  #164
what we didnt do was round women and children up and gas them.

No need to....during and after such bombings people just got burned like in ovens...

In fact it was by far the most ineffective strategy to follow.Bombing civilians created supporters for Hitler.German army production remained the same and later grew up.

I know...
Amathyst 19 | 2700  
1 Jul 2007 /  #165
Anyway, Im not going to get in to an argument about this, we should just respect those that died in that awful war and I mean all civillians.

Mr B, you may not have noticed this post, I said ALL civillians and yes I was including Germans too.

Lets hope that this kind of thing never happens again.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 12058  
1 Jul 2007 /  #166
It happens more than you think...

I doubt that!

...and I would never demand that!
southern 73 | 7071  
1 Jul 2007 /  #167
So you guys are arguing about ethics and who is guilty of warcrimes?

Trial of Nurenberg accepted that war crimes of allies would not be judged.The new legislation regarded only german war crimes according to the text.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 12058  
1 Jul 2007 /  #168
Lets hope that this kind of thing never happens again.

*agrees heartily*

A pilsner for the group!
(I mean for everone ONE beer...not ONE beer for all) :)
shopgirl 6 | 928  
1 Jul 2007 /  #169
Why, in this age (2nd millennium) are wars still waged by combat and destruction? Are we not advanced enough, or civilised enough to solve problems in others ways?

(Yes, you are right I am overly idealistic-Libra rising and all that)

I am female, and I am a mother. No mother will ever want war. No mother wants her son harmed, or her children harmed, or her husband to leave for war. I see war as something that takes lives (which are of infinite value) for smaller grievances (lesser value). War destroys not only life, but lives (those who survive). War rapes the land, steals culture and history, and leaves rubble in its wake.

I support sanctions and other forms of deterrents.....not war.
Amathyst 19 | 2700  
1 Jul 2007 /  #170
A pilsner for the group!

As long as it a Czech Pilsner Urquel :)

I support sanctions and other forms of deterrents.....not war.

I think most do...but history repeats its self
southern 73 | 7071  
1 Jul 2007 /  #171
Bombing of civilians was popular in WW2.Germans bombed heavily Warsaw and Beograd.They did not bomb french or belgian cities.
In England air raid they tried to bomb airports and military facilities til by mistake they bombed a city and english decided to bomb Berlin in revenge.Then Germans starte bombing London by Hitler's command which was a fatal choice.If they had continued bombing airports and plants,they might have won the war in 1940.
shopgirl 6 | 928  
1 Jul 2007 /  #172
In fact it was by far the most ineffective strategy to follow.

Southern, your knowledge of history is very detailed. Do you like to read historical accounts?
Daisy 3 | 1216  
1 Jul 2007 /  #173
It happens more than you think...

I doubt that!

My dad was a child during the war and he doesn't agree with what bomber Harris did.
The taking of any innocent life is wrong, especially when it is a child.

actually, I don't fancy beer tonight, I'll have a gin and tonic with ice and a slice of lime, not lemon
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 12058  
1 Jul 2007 /  #174
I think most do...but history repeats its self

No...I doubt that a big war will ravage Europe ever again!
shopgirl 6 | 928  
1 Jul 2007 /  #175
God, I hope not. Look at how long for healing to come after the last one!
And how do you keep people aware of what happened (to prevent repeating) without reopening wounds? There's the tough part.
Daisy 3 | 1216  
1 Jul 2007 /  #176
No...I doubt that a big war will ravage Europe ever again!

I hope you're right

where's my gin??
Amathyst 19 | 2700  
1 Jul 2007 /  #177
No...I doubt that a big war will ravage Europe ever again!

I didnt mean Europe, we are all quite civilised here now :) I meant in the East etc. Everyone seems to forget about the Vietnam war and what Poll Pot did or all the other wars that have gone on since WWII, as humans we never seem to learn.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 12058  
1 Jul 2007 /  #178
Oops!

*runs to bring Daisy her gin and Amethyst her czech Urquel*
shopgirl 6 | 928  
1 Jul 2007 /  #179
Everyone seems to forget about the Vietnam war

I haven't forgotten it, but I was a child at that time, and didn't understand it until I got older. It is the focus of so many films....anyone can get some feeling of what happened.

It is the more recent wars that bother me. There seems to be a few going, in some part of the world, at any given time.
Daisy 3 | 1216  
1 Jul 2007 /  #180
runs to bring Daisy her gin

better make it a large one, the service here is appallng

There seems to be a few going, in some part of the world, at any given time

Darfur?

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