English vs. Polish hostility

our (almost city) flies the Polish flag on may the 3rd,its a nice start,we dont have any specifically Polish festivals here as yet,but how many festivals are organised by the under 25's anyway? what i mean is,in the States you have huge Polish american comunities dating back 150 odd years,over here you have two main groups, old boys who fought with Anders or in the Home Army and had to/chose to stay here,ie 80+year olds,and young singles/couples over here to work hard and in some case too hard maybe to help mums and dads back home,they dont seem like the natural demografic to start up festivals and trad dancing events etc,maybe in 5 - 10 years with those who settle but not just yet.

What f---ing Planet are you living on sunshine???

Was there somethig wrong with what I said Mr Graham? The general tone of your reply would seem to suggest you disagree with me.

-- the above post was in response to ajgraham's earlier reply to me.

where you at kmiot???

Is this true? How much did we get for it then? I was always taught that Churchill was overruled. Of course that could just be how he English History text books portrayed it.

If my history lessons are correct.
Poland was sold out to Russia by America.
Who gained a territory anvantage to place a Base on.
They agreed it between them.
Churchill was the ONLY One who could see the greed in stalins actions.
America didnt see the plot till too late.
And It was agreed AFTER Churchil was replaced as British priminister..

Once again Michal
Engaging your Mouth before putting your brain into gear.

thats crap, anything that was given to the Soviets and Stalin was given to them by the Americans, Churchill had balls and he could foresee the problems that Stalin and a communist USSR would cause, for example the Americans let the Soviets take Berlin towards the end of the war and the agreement drawn up pre invasion was not me by guess who, ow yes Stalin and guess who let him take Berlin, ow yes the Yanks, so its nothing to do with Churchill he knew that Stalin was a back stabbing Commy SOB :)

Leave Winston alone he wa the only leader with real balls to stick it to the Krauts, Ruski's whoever

agreed, Churchill was shocked to find Poland betrayed by roosvelt etc, but the Americans hardly "gave" berlin to the soviets.While the still relitevly small US expiditionary force was over 100 miles from berlin the soviets with far greater numbers were less than 30. In a sense I suppose the western allies did let the soviets take berlin in the way they realised why waste so many lives on a symbolic pile of rubble,the soviets and a Polish army lost over 350 thousand men taking berlin,more troops than britain had in europe.

i'm sure that the Americans were 40kms away but i won't argue over numbers either way, the Americans had better fire power and overall gorilla warfare skills than the Ruski's even though they had fought of the Germans with the aid of the weather.

Could nobody see that the Soviets couldn't wait to get back at the krauts after what they did to the Soviet Union, although i still hold down that the Soviets did as much if not more damage to themselves, their people and their army than the Germans.

It was down to Rosavelt who went in, Churchill told him that the US should take it but he siad no because strategicly it was no use to them bombed to the ground, so he just left if to the Soviets without a thought for the Civilians of Berlin.

True to form the Soviets went in and raped, looted and pillaged all in its path and then when the other allies caught up, told them that if they stopped the looting that they would be next, nice hay :)

didnt winston churchhill wear womens panties??

There winston churchhill dressed in drag he used to be a British flag

GENESIS: A very good band
besides them the only good that came out of England was the muffin

LOL, we can take it mate. Is Muffin the Mule illegal over there too? (editors note Muffin the Mule was a character in a popular childrens program on the Radio in the UK)

With appropriate apologies to Osiol.

I believe it is illegal in Poland as the guardians of morality there belived it to be yet another English childrens programme that promotes sexual deviance.

Who would have done the fighting? It's easy to tell some other country's soldiers to die over taking a target your people don't have to sacrifice for. Happens all the time...

----

About the other 'muffin' post... That's a reference to an 'english muffin' which is something that is toasted for the morning's breakfast in the U.S. (they don't actually have these in England).

yes it does but every allied leader knew the dangers of letting the Soviets take Berlin yet the Americans still let them take it.

I think that view is overly simplistic and doesn't take in to account all the complexities of the situation.

Further, it's always easy to look back and criticize. The major goal at the time was completing the victory of the war.

Do you know the Muffin Man who lives down Dury Lane by the way?

Sorry torny but your grasp on the situation in spring 45 is as oscypek says way over simplified if not down right factually wrong.
Distence, The RKKA and Polish LWP were at the oder,a distance of some 40 miles,the western allies were only just over the Rhine aproaching the Elbe.

The Americans had no units trained in Guerila warfare,where as the soviets had been succesfully using partizans and rasvidcheks(sp) scout units since 42.
Fighting the germans with aid of weather; your point? every army utilises the weather,but mud was just as deep and snow just as cold for "russians" as germans.

Every one saw that the "russians" couldnt wait to get back at the germans;and the entire free world sanctioned it and saw it as almost the "russians" right after the horrendous crimes commited by the germans all through the soviet union and border states.And frankly "our" leaders were glad that the "russians" had such a thurst for revenge as it meant that they,the "russians" would do the bulk of the fighting and dying.

What exactly do you mean by the soviet union did more damage to its people than the germans? if you mean stalin and his various terrors,probably getting close in actuall numbers killed,but the germans caused the loss of over 27 million people in the western soviet union and states such as belrus ,lithuania etc so in terms of the period 41-45 the statement the germans wernt as bad is fatious and in poor taste.

Down too Roosvelt,lol, no,Roosvelt saw the only real power in the area at the time was the soviet union,which both UK and USA had copiously suppled with war materiel which still only accounted for a small fraction of soviet materiel. Roosvelt and Churchil were playing the long game politicaly and roosvelt passed on the decision to Eisenhower whos saw no gain in expending American lives on capturing what he saw as purly a symbolic landmark.

Nobody desputes large amounts of rapes and lootings took place in berlin and other parts of germany( as a side also in poland but im not dealing with that crime here) the german armies did exactly the same all through the soviet union for the four previous years, the only difference being that while most of the haus frau's are still here to tell ofthe horrible events the germans rather more efficiently tended to round up their victims and burn them in pits.

yes and that includes everything being alright for the people (civilians) and not just he Military personnel.


well it can't be that overly simplistic because Winston Churchill knew exactly what was going to happen and even warned the fellow allied leaders about what Stalin and the Soviet Union would do when the got to the heart of Berlin and collapsed the Nazi German war machine.


my point is the Weather saved the Russians from being overrun by the German war machine. That is my point, everybody knows that without the weather the Soviet Union would have been mostly in German hands. I do understand how well the Russian's faught to save their motherland but they were aided a lot by the winters.


i agree that the Russian's deserved their crack, however you forget the war crimes committed by the Russian's on their own people, did they answer for that??? :)


of course i didn't mean it literally, it was just to emphasize my point about what the Soviets did to their own soldiers and people.


don't make excuses for him, he made a mistake :) The soviets were considering turning against the other so called allies. Roosvelt should of combined together with other allied nations and put political pressure on the Soviet Union to hold back and start behaving in a more humanitarian way.


me, you and history agree here :)


all the more reason not to do it, do you want to be as bad as the fascists??? :):)


agreed here, however as i said before a lot of people died due to lack of resources such as food and water as well as Stalin executing people here there and everywhere.

i wont co to the level of kasper an obyious a.....hole and the well say no more .it is not the british that are shafting poles they are more than gratfull to work and f....ing hard at that, its the ch...pic who pile them into 4 and more to a room take there rent cash pay sweet f/a out .trouble is most have taken british kindness for stupidness and worse words than that so its not the polish who need to go home its the renters who take give f..k all.

kasper is an obvious a hole and i wont go to his level the british kindness has been taken weakness and worse words than that it,s the ch pics that need to go back they are the ones who put 4 and more only take the rent in cash from the pollsh and do f..k all work and pay f..k all out , the polish work f..king hard the renters dont and contribute to the uk the others dont fair play to them and ladies bring brightness to the high street and also work hard so all you knockers f,,k off

re: was it not Churchill who sold Poland to Stalin?

- Wow, the thing-pretending -to-be-an-Englisman attempts to play expert not just on Poland under communism, English essay writing and Eurovision voting, but also on WWII Allied politics in regard to Poland? :)

i understand what your saying mate and i think to some degree you have a very valid point, however its all nationalities that come to this country and shack up 9 to a room, Polish, Chinese, Pakistani, Ukrainian you name it they do it. We need to have a proper sort out of all the people in the country and then start from scratch. We need proper border control and Immigration rules/regulations that actually better Britain and not the rest of the EU. :)

Anyone not running forward was SHOT.
By there own leaders. ( Thousands died ) Quote, Not one step back.. Unquote.


I'd like to point out here.
That the russians withdrew.
They KNEW the weather would turn. and they were better equipped to deal with it.
And more used to it.
Than the germans. who were ordered to attack.. Without provision for extreme weather.
Thus they froze to death ( It gets to -30 In parts of russia. )


Would this be why the russians force marched there own men into stalingrad.
With 1 rifle and 1 ammo clip between two men.
( The first man shoots. when he dies. The second man picks up his weapon. loads it and shoots. )
Yes we supplied them. Bc they were allies against the fascist war machine.

Russia had only one thing on its mind when its armies finally approached Berlin.
And they were NOT Going to wait for the Allies.
Stalin waited and watched while the germans died and used up rescourses trying to kill the polish. Then they calmly walked in and liberated them.

Conscripted the Polish army to help them drive out the Germans.
Then arrested and imprisoned the Polish army. And installed a puppet government sympathetic to him.

Stalin had allready carved up the states occupied by german forces. Before the war was over.
Churchil saw this happening. ( An iron curtain has been drawn across europe ) He said.
He classed the polish as allies. and was appalled at the treatment they recieved.
And wanted its lands returned as was..

Sadly he was replaced in an election before the summit meeting.
So he ws powerless to intervene

re: I was always taught that Churchill was overruled. Of course that could just be how he English History text books portrayed it.

- English history books portrayed it right, Szarlotka. Churchill could not do much - in fact he could not do anything - against Roosevelt's determination to allow the Russians to grab Poland. It's Roosevelt, and then Truman, not Churchill, who sold us to the Russians. And yet this monster in human shape has streets of his name in Poland. I hope he rots in hell. By the way, have you read Norman Davies' 'Europe at War 1939-1945'? I highly recommend it.

re: We need proper border control and Immigration rules/regulations that actually better Britain and not the rest of the EU. :)

- Does it follow Polish guest workers worsen Britain? If yes, then exactly how, tornado?

PS. Oh torynado, re: not the rest of the EU. :)

- The majority of foreigners in Brtain are from the Third World, from places like Africa and Asia. Are you also against 'betterng' their countries...?

Joseph Stalin :)


One of Adolf Hitlers biggest Mistakes even though he was warned by his advisers and leader of the Sixth Army, General Paulus, who was there and had the situation right in front of him.


yes that would be the very same Russian's. In fact there also the same Russian's who marched their own ex-prisoners of war to camps with no huts in the winter, because they were accused of collaborating with the Germans. They were put in barbed wire holding pens and left to die, Russian's killing Russian's


exactly :)


what a wise man he was :) If only people would have listened


I don't care where they are from i'm not picking on the Polish specifically and i'l think you will find i already said people willing to work are fine to come and stay in the UK.


I mean all Immigrants, not just the ones who come as part of the EU, everybody should be treated the same and have to be put through the same checks, whether, european, african, asian, south american or even freaking aliens :)

He was voted out of office before the meeting. to decide the outcome.

Dont forget.. We were also in debt to America.
We are an island nation at the mercy of an unstoppable machine.
America supplied us on a lend lease. ( We return or repay after the war )

re: I mean all Immigrants ... have to be put through the same checks

- Well, how would you wish to do that concerning Polish guest workers? How those 'checks' should look like in practice?

Quoting: Puzzler
- Does it follow Polish guest workers worsen Britain? If yes, then exactly how, tornado? [/quote]

I happen to like the Polish people.
And think they do a great deal to add to the culture of our country.
I have worked with many of them.

I Think torny means.
Those who come and sit on their asses whining about how crap it is here.
And do nothing but bleed the country of rescources.

re: He was voted out of office before the meeting. to decide the outcome

- That is true, although before it happened he had an important input that was favourable to Poland.

re: Dont forget.. We were also in debt to America. We are an island nation at the mercy of an unstoppable machine. America supplied us on a lend lease. ( We return or repay after the war )

- I don't forget that and I of course agree with the above. Only ignorant folks can blame Britain for Yalta, etc.

why just Polish in general, don't try and make it look like i have a problem with Poles because i don't so please stop your insinuations now, thank you.

Well the very very very draft version of my idea is to simply make everybody apply three months in advance of them arriving into the UK, whether there from the EU or outside of it (with my idea we would be outside of the EU, therefore not under their laws).

Of course all the information required on the application form would be the same standard ones as applying for a Visa/Work permit etc. When the papers have been sent to the UK there can be a proper background check completed with the full co-operation of the government of the applicants country. Therefore any criminal record, infectious diseases or any other history that may stop a successful application could be assessed.

When the application has been reviewed then the person is granted permission to both work and live in the UK.

I have thought long and hard about it and have come up with a pretty simple plan that with some people with resources could probably be implemented, however with our current political status this would never be possible. Any further questions are welcome

re: I Think torny means.Those who come and sit on their asses whining about how crap it is here. And do nothing but bleed the country of rescources.

- I'm travelling, professionally so to speak, throughout Britain, and I must admit I have never met Polish people here answering the above description. Have you met such Polish folks, Firestorm? If yes, please let me know, I'm really curious. Thanks.

re: stop your insinuations now

- God forbid me from ever even thinking of doing that! I'm just referring to the content of your posts and conclusions one may draw from them.

PS re: God forbid me from ever even thinking of doing that!

- I mean: God forbid me from ever even thinking of insinuating anything to you.

I'm just curious and asking questions for the sake of clarification. Also, I like the English and really wish they like us.

Not polish people...
From my experience they are hard working and determined people.