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Countries in Europe where abortion is allowed/not allowed?


polishmancan 8 | 21  
28 Sep 2006 /  #1
I was wondering if someone could provide me a list of countries where abortion is allowed and one where it is not allowed in Europe? The reason is the connection that Catholic countries like Ireland that ban it have a direct correlation with a pretty high birth rate compared to the rest of Europe.

You would think that, Poland with about 95% Catholic would have it banned? Is it banned in Poland? If so, I am even more disturbed about the declining birth rate across Europe. What is being done to stop the shrinking? We have a few concerned conservative polticians in the States that notice this alarming trend too..

Across Europe, a broad assault by abortion foes
By Elisabeth Rosenthal International Herald Tribune


WARSAW For most of July, pedestrians in the Polish city of Lodz found themselves face to face with 14 grisly billboards pairing images of aborted fetuses with photographs of blood-spattered corpses - victims of genocide in Srebrenica or Rwanda, toddlers killed in the Oklahoma City bombing attack.


iht.com/articles/2005/07/27/news/health.php

According to this article only Ireland, Portugual, Malta and Poland (to some extent) are strict on LIMITING abortion. Does any state flat out ban it? This is what is causing Europe to decline. I don't want to see the continent of innovation, invention, intelligence, and culture disappear.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,386  
28 Sep 2006 /  #2
polishmancan,

I'm not quite sure of the point you are making. Are you saying that there is a connection between birth rate and abortion ?

If so, then I disagree. Birth rate is connected to wealth.

I won't say any more in case I've missed the point.
Marzena 2 | 122  
28 Sep 2006 /  #3
According to this article only Ireland, Portugual, Malta and Poland (to some extent) are strict on LIMITING abortion. Does any state flat out ban it? This is what is causing Europe to decline. I don't want to see the continent of innovation, invention, intelligence, and culture disappear.

this is such a simplification to think that abortion has anything to do with birth rates. if the Catholic church banned the use of condoms, maybe that would affect it... like it does in Africa.

the declining birth rates is a sociological phenomenon. people who have lots of kids are either very poor where the woman doesn't work, or very rich, where the woman doesn't work either. some women choose not to have kids at all, since they are independent, unlike in the past.

however, there will be immigration from the newly admitted EU members, so the land of innovation won't decline :).
OP polishmancan 8 | 21  
28 Sep 2006 /  #4
Are you saying that there is a connection between birth rate and abortion ?

Yes, you would think that if abortions were outlawed, the birth rate would have to go up. I guess I just don't understand why Europe is declining, especially when countries like Poland have a large GDP and seem to be growing. Further, if one can afford it and WANTS to have kids, why wouldn't they?

The argument I keep hearing (not just on this site) is that the conditions are so bad (economically, society etc.) and the government incentives are so low (mother cannot afford to miss work, little materity leave if at all) that many people choose not to have any at all.

Finally, I think it is a growing theme-correct me if I'm wrong, that many families are happy with only one child? Is Europe really running around with 3 member families?

I am not trying to advocate anti abortion on anyone its just that would be an easy way of explaining that is a reason birth rate is going down, if it is not the case, I have no idea. Also, I have no idea how Europe will turn around their alarming trend of declining birth rates.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,386  
28 Sep 2006 /  #5
polishmancan,

In Poland the government is offering a bounty to families who have children. I'm not sure how much it is. But the low birth rate here is a problem. Yet, no-one is taking up the offer.

A career comes first, then a home, then maybe marriage and children. as I said in my original post the answer to the problem is wealth/money.

From my point of view Polish families have always been small [at least in the last twenty years] and I don't see it changing for some time.

I have no idea how much a change in the law, regarding abortion, would change the birth rate. I doubt that you would notice a difference though.

What people have been telling you seems to ring true with me, but I can't speak for the rest of Europe.
The issue of our GDP needs to be thought about in a different way. I know nothing about economics so I'll let someone else deal with it.
OP polishmancan 8 | 21  
19 Jan 2007 /  #6
Babies abound in family-friendly France

PARIS -- It's almost a "bebe" boom: France had more babies in 2006 than in any year in the last quarter-century, the state statistics agency said Tuesday, capping a decade of rising fertility that has bucked Europe's graying trend.

The government trumpeted the figures as a victory for family friendly policies such as cheap day care and generous parental leave -- many of which were launched under Socialists like Segolene Royal, the presidential candidate who was family minister in the early 1990s, and have continued to grow under today's conservative government.

France had 830,000 new babies last year, the highest annual total since 1981, the Insee statistics agency said. That brought France's population to 63.4 million people as of Jan. 1, up from 62.9 million a year earlier.

The fertility rate was 2.0 children per woman, up from 1.92 in 2005 -- and that might make France the most fertile nation in the European Union, Jean-Michel Charpin, Insee's director, predicted.

In 2005, only Ireland had a higher fertility rate: the Irish rate was 1.99, to France's 1.94. Irish figures for 2006 were not yet available.

More:

jacksonholestartrib.com/articles/2007/01/19/news/world/da91 14535f2b1150872572650079e11b.txt
Amathyst 19 | 2,702  
19 Jan 2007 /  #7
Ireland
Spain

no one has the right to tell a woman what she should do with her body! at the end of the day its her choice
Amathyst 19 | 2,702  
19 Jan 2007 /  #9
To be so crude.....its easy to shoot your load and not think of the consequenses.....maybe in future you will
kaka 1 | 142  
19 Jan 2007 /  #10
no one has the right to tell a woman what she should do with her body! at the end of the day its her choice

I wholheartedly agree!!!
In Poland they want to change a constitution and make abortion impossible even when a girl is raped or when it dangerous for her health to born...
ola123  
19 Jan 2007 /  #11
Also, I have no idea how Europe will turn around their alarming trend of declining birth rates.

I dont care but I care of me and want to have a choice, Im a human being which has right to decide about myself and ppl like you cant take it away from me. I feel unsafe in Poland because it wants to control me no matter what I want and no matter what will happen with me. A few cells cant be more important than developed human being. End of.
Frank 23 | 1,183  
19 Jan 2007 /  #12
To be so crude.....its easy to shoot your load

Are you type casting Polish men.........

Or was it Panda bears.....eats, shoots, leaves....

Play on words............lol
ola123  
19 Jan 2007 /  #13
In Poland they want to change a constitution and make abortion impossible even when a girl is raped or when it dangerous for her health to born...

Its so far legally but only on paper. Girls raped or pregnant women whose health and lives are in danger meet huge problems with "legal" abortion. Officialls often try to delay paper work that embryo will have more than 3 months and abortion is be illegall then. This law is in fact almost dead in Poland. Women are scared to be pregnant.
Amathyst 19 | 2,702  
19 Jan 2007 /  #14
But, Im not advocating is unsafe sex, women should at all times protcect themselves...if they are going to engage in a non relationship it important.
telefonitika  
20 Jan 2007 /  #15
Girls raped or pregnant women whose health and lives are in danger meet huge problems with "legal" abortion.

I have read this somewhere regarding the issue in Poland being what you have stated ola123.

Women are scared to be pregnant.

Why are they scared ??? :(

I know that it is possibly not allowed in Malta as this is a catholic country and on another note if you were to marry in Malta you are not allowed to Divorce (was told on my holiday this information)

its easy to shoot your load and not think of the consequenses

Are you type casting Polish men.........

I dont think amathyst is typecasting anyone ... but there are many males that actually as she quite rightly phrases shoot their load and when a female gets pregnant they arent interested ... this can be in and out of a relationship in this day and age in my opinion.

Some males arent mature enough for responsiblities of this nature. No offense to anyone intended.
iwona 12 | 542  
20 Jan 2007 /  #16
I suppose contraception is the best solution for it.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,386  
20 Jan 2007 /  #17
Tele,

They might worry that if they get pregnant by mistake there is nothing they can do about it.
Also, given the law, it would be very difficult to get a termination.

Plus Polish men are the same as any other men. If they don't want to admit responsibility, they won't.
Amathyst 19 | 2,702  
20 Jan 2007 /  #18
I suppose contraception is the best solution for it.

I agree, but its not 100% I have friends that have been caught on the pill, like I have said I think that it down to a woman to decide, after all its her thats going to end up with the life long committment in the end
Frank 23 | 1,183  
20 Jan 2007 /  #19
Catholic countries like Ireland that ban it have a direct correlation with a pretty high birth

Recent stats show that whilst indigenous Irish families average sizes have come down dramatically over the last 30 yrs, the birth rate itself has risen in the last 10, mainly due to the large rise in immigrant groups, it has been estimated that in Dublin, that 30% of live births are from familes from Africa!!

Irish girls still go to the UK for abortions...around 10000pa
Guest  
20 Jan 2007 /  #20
I have had 2 abortions in my life, one at 22 and one at 23 and I think abortion is wrong, wrong, wrong. If I could turn back time I would never had them. It ****** me up (mentally) for a good 5 years afterwards. I had one at 12 weeks and one at 20 weeks. These are not cells, these are human babies, albeit not fully developed.

Please think long and hard before you have an abortion, it's your baby in there as well.
Amathyst 19 | 2,702  
21 Jan 2007 /  #21
I see you waited 20 weeks the second time, that's just irrisponsible!!! as for your mental health you made your choice, live with it there is nothing you can do to change what you did.
iwona 12 | 542  
21 Jan 2007 /  #22
I agree, but its not 100% I have friends that have been caught on the pill, like I have said I think that it down to a woman to decide, after all its her thats going to end up with the life long committment in the end

That is true.

I think that this is very delicate and sensitive subject......each situation is different....as you say final decision should be left to woman.
telefonitika  
21 Jan 2007 /  #23
I had one at 12 weeks and one at 20 weeks

I dont understand why you waited till you were about 5months into your pregnancy before decided that option because i think yeah

It ****** me up (mentally)

would have done!!!

Judging by the ages you had them 1st @ 22 then again @ 23 each a year apart (the female body would have been just getting over the first abortion it can take upto 2years for a females body to recover from a miscarried preganancy, so to recover from the pill induced abortion and then the suction removal or go through labour(giving birth) option of an abortion i guess it would take longer to recover)

live with it there is nothing you can do to change what you did.

true Amathyst ... you cant live life with regrets

But to the guest that posted maybe you should consider contraception next time and then maybe you wont have to make that decision again !!!
Guest  
21 Jan 2007 /  #24
The abortions were less than 6 months apart, I was still grieving from the first abortion and really wanted to keep the baby, that's why I waited. My b/friend did not want the baby, I was hoping he would change his mind or that I will be able to figure out a way to do it on my own. I was a student and in debt, and I could not get any benefit as I had not been working and had not paid enough NI.

I regret what I did but I was not the only one to blame. My b/friend was 8 years older and had plenty of money and a house - we were living together. he could have made a different choice. I felt pushed into it - maybe that's why it ****** me up so much.

Before I had the first abortion, I had a dream there was a river filled with blood it was like a storm that;s all I remember and just an overhwelming feeling of sadness.

You cannot judge me unless you are another woman who has been through a difficult time like I had, what do you know what it's like to be pregnant and feel utterly hopeless about the future?
Wroclaw 44 | 5,386  
21 Jan 2007 /  #25
I will never be able to understand your plight. But you must have realized that the father had a responsibility of care after the birth.

Your story is a sad one. You have my sympathy.
Amathyst 19 | 2,702  
21 Jan 2007 /  #26
You cannot judge me unless you are another woman who has been through a difficult time like I had, what do you know what it's like to be pregnant and feel utterly hopeless about the future?

Im not judging you, but getting pregnant whilst your partner doesnt want children is silly, I hope you binned him off...
Guest  
21 Jan 2007 /  #27
Thanks, Wroclaw. All this happened almost 12 years ago. I now have 2 beautiful children and I thank God for letting me have them, despite what I did. For years I lived in fear that I would be infertile as sometimes (rarelY I believe) can happen after an abortion.

I was depressed for years about it. For the first few months afterwards all I did was cried in the evenings. My b/f would go out with his friends and I would sit all night and cry. I could not stop the tears. i also became aggressive which is not like me and very untrusting of people. When I saw mothers with children in the street I could not help feeling emotional.

If I knew then what I know now I would not let it happen. The second abortion was in Bournemouth and we lived in Bristol. It's about a 2 hour drive to the clinic. My b/friend went with me - probably to make sure I would do it. I wish I had the mental strength to refuse, even once we got there I wanted to turn back. I wish I had walked out.

Although it was so many years ago, I never forget it. When I look at my children I think about the one (two) babies who would be now so many years old.

As for living with it - I have since forgiven myself as I feel God has forgiven me. I felt bad about it for years, and I had problems with myself. Part of the problem was that when you have an abortion they never let you see the baby(foetus). There was no closure and I knew the baby would be disposed of as clinical waste.

One day I woke up and felt a strange peace. I knew that I had been forgiven. I cannot explain it. I knew I had been forgiven then.

With the second pregnancy the day after I had the abortion I had milk. My body thought I had given birth and the baby needed feeding. It only lasted a few days but it added to the pain.

That spring I planted some flowers from seed - me who has always loathed gardening! and found it boring. The garden came to life, I could not believe how well everything grew. It helped me to grieve.

Since this is a topic about abortion I just wanted to tell any woman reading this to get help if she is not sure about having the abortion. Don't be afraid to tell people - I felt I could not tell my family and I wish I had - they would have helped me I am sure. Tell someone who may be able to help you make the right decision.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,386  
21 Jan 2007 /  #28
Yes, you are right. Young women, especially, should know the mental torment that an abortion can cause. Although I have met women who have been through this procedure I have no idea what is running through their minds. Your case does underline the fact that contraception should be taken seriously. And women not men should have the final say.
Guest  
21 Jan 2007 /  #29
I said don't judge me but I was just being defensive. Of course you should judge. And I am the first to say that I was dumb, naive, immature and stupid. I should have known better at 22 and 23 but I acted more like I was 16 or 18.

I want people to know that abortion is not an easy option, and may leave you with scars like it has me. Always use contraception unless you are 100% sure you both want a child, have discussed it etc. and you have enough money and courage to have a baby on your own if your partner should back out. And be aware that if you have been drinking heavily or are on any type of medication your contraceptive may not work.

Babies are indeed hard work, but once they are about 3 they become a lot easier and you can go back to work etc.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,386  
21 Jan 2007 /  #30
I can't add anything, but you have given me food for thought.

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