800 thousand Polish women are victims of domestic abuse yearly

can you elaborate on that generalization without using me as an example?

You said it simply and well. ...but it seems that the women here have a difficult time understanding that. Look at the name-calling and emotion they exhibit.

nah... the breaks at work are precious, i don't want to waste it... but you enjoy it and go back to the topic...

Mate what is your problem with the fairer of the species?

Your premise is wrong so I cannot answer the question.

When did you stop beating your wife? See, that's another wrong premise. No way to answer that because of the built-in assumption.

Well to be honest I see nothing but anti-feminist drivel in your posts so perhaps my premise is incorrect... why don't you correct me then?


I have a simple way to answer it: I have no wife.

well, a nice way out:)

both men and women abuse each other this normally is because of confusion, lack of understanding and frustration. abusive people need help to control their feelings. learn to regonise what sparks the situation and how to avoid the abuse. this being said anatomically and biologically a man is stronger than a women and therefore a women is more likely to be physically hurt.

Yes he does this, doesn't he? He doesn't really contribute much other than the bare minimum and then (1) tries to change the topic, (2) calls you stupid (3) hammers away at google. Sigh, the days of intelligent debates seem to be a thing of the past.

good summary:). Thank God he went out to dinner with his imaginary female friend;)

agree.. hes pretty annoying, Z_dariusz and few others like you know better how to
at least discuss the topic ..


I said it once, it doesnt surprise me why the guys not been married for over 24 years
cause I would not be able to live with someone who talks like this daily..

he said to know him is to love him..

so how many of us love him?? LOL

Zimmy/Miranda, I've heard men complaining about being victims of abuse in divorces. Women often get full custody of the kids, even if the father is a responsible father. Some of these men can only see their kids once a week for a couple of hours! How's that for abuse?

Some men dont even want that sadly...:(

It all comes down to personal anecdote and DAily MAil style articles.

We are all just human...(goes off to roll cig reflectively)

Same person?

Anyway, yes. Sometimes the father is the more responsible person in a relationship. I know this because at the moment I know of a guy who has an alcoholic wife but because his very old crim record has a conviction of assault (one punch) it is unlikely he will be given custody of his son even though I know he will be better for his son this his wife will be. His kid will be abused every time his wife/soon-to-be-ex-wife get drunk which will be every night as she used to before pregnancy. She is drunk at the moment but the courts don't get that. She hits this boys Dad and tells him 80 hours working a weeks is NOT ENOUGH!


Why not open your mind then, rather than rely on newspapers?

the whole topic is about 800 thousand polish women and domestic abuse, does this
Apply to Polish men? are you putting out figures there? I am sure its much different
in Poland Vs the United states or even the UK

that can be another topic, but its not this one at the current.

feministki.org.pl/pl/raport.html
Abortion
In its previous report the government of Poland does not mention the impact of the new abortion law on women in Poland and does not seem to treat it as a serious violation of women's reproductive rights, as included in Art. 9, 17,18,19,26 of the ICCPR.

Protection of the Human Foetus and the Conditions for Admissibility of Abortion Act dated January 7, 1993 constitutes a serious threat to women's lives (Article 6 of ICCPR, and Article 20 of the Polish Constitution)). It results in practice in frequent refusal by public medical institutions of delivering legal abortion services to women whose life and health are endangered by pregnancy.

Practical implementation of the Act frequently results in cases when women face difficulties in obtaining doctor's recommendation for abortion. Such infringement of women's rights also often occurs when pregnancy is a result of rape due to prolonged prosecutor's procedures (abortion is legal only for women who are less than 12 weeks pregnant).

For instance, in 1998 a 14-year-old girl was raped in Slupsk (Northern Poland), the prosecutor issued a certificate allowing her to get abortion, however, the medical staff refused to perform abortion for she was pregnant 12 weeks and 6 days at the time.

this is disturbing as it shows that even a child is denied, it was ok for the rape but
not the abortion even when the prosecutor had given her the certificate.
and who knows what kind of disease this man had , I wonder how the parents react
to these things, if they turn vigilante on people like that.. it wouldnt surprise me if
they do.

yes.... they did refuse it.... but they would love to do it behind the closed door...
we'll never know the stats about illegal abortion... but it happens on regular basis... pretty sad...

you know that girl was traumatized big time, to have the child prob sent her over
the edge to be a child and bear a child , not fully understanding the laws , only
knowing that someone horrible took away her life.

she prob wouldnt even understand the illegal abortion either, adoption would be her
only choice, the problem is, what if the child had a defect? something wrong with it
whats their policys on that? 12 weeks no matter what your having this child whos
destined to die?

somewhere along the line Poland should be lifting restrictions and making hospitals
lift them too or face fines, in life and death situations what do they approve?
what if at 18 weeks the mother starts hemoraging, do they say well, we shall let
the mother die and keep the baby whos not even half developed?

what are the policys for women who are in critical condition due to the fetus?

do they take the baby if the mother is in some type of critical condition and death
is imminant?

these are important issues that also can involve women who have been abused
or raped and a situatation like this can occur during pregnancy, if a husband beats
on the woman enough to send her into labor, but shes bleeding internally, whos life
is saved if the policys are concluded at 12 weeks?

I am seriously thinking poland needs a overhaul, but Im suspecting I am wrong.
Please show me that serious situations like this are not ignored. I want to believe
they change during certain circumstances.

Depends on what "Domestic Abuse" really is. I really feel for these women, however in some places women lie about this to get revenge or target their husbands. Also many might report it for a single slap as compared to a full beating. (Both fully wrong, however that might be the reason the number is so high). This is true not only in Poland but in many places.

These are the kinds of abuses that are of concern. I have several anecdotal examples of this. In one instance I heard a commotion outside my window and this young woman kept bumping into her boyfriend. She continued to slam herself into his chest. He pushed her off several times but she kept slamming into him. Finally, he hit her on the shoulder. She screamed at him and called the cops from her cell phone. I waited until the police arrived and then walked outside with my cup of coffee. Her version of the 'incident' was very different from what actually occurred. As a witness I explained that to the police. The young 'lady' glared at me.

It's too easy for women to file false assault charges (and yes, I can give statistical information) and too many women do it for a variety of reasons. Every man is at risk.

Good women with loving fathers, husbands and sons should voice their concerns as well.

That is true, unfortunately. At least in Countries such as Canada.
If a woman call the cops and claims she has been abused by a man the cops must come over asap, which is understandable. What is not understandable is that they will haul the guy away without as much as even an attempt to seek explanations as to what happened.

There were cases here, not isolated, where men were screwed up big time (criminal record and all) based solely on women's false testimonies. In one such case a couple of teenage girls accused their teacher of sexual abuse. Long story short - The girls filed an official report stating they had been abused. Eventually they admitted they lied. Initially all they wanted was to blackmail the guy for some cash, and then things escalated and got out of hand when the matter went to court. The teacher, with his reputation destroyed, his marriage wrecked and the job gone (even though he was proven to be innocent) committed a suicide.

yes and 30 years ago they wouldnt even come at all, and still won't in some European countries today. Certainly in Canada and UK maybe the pendulum has swung too far the other way in some situations. However it seems a little provincial to only refer to ones own country. Lets get real.

you should start thinking about the situation in Poland and not in the US and Canada... this thread is not about that...

exactly what i was about to add...:}

Yes, it has.


Like the title of this thread?


if you always stick precisely to the subjects of threads on this forum I'll feel obliged to follow your example.

and you'd feel really bad, if you didn't add it, sir...

my comment was about the women who are in dire need of medical attention due
to the nature of the domestic abuse , not how many men were slapped.. fek them
at the moment, thats another thread someone else can start.. this issue is on what
happens to the mother of this unborn child, or even the fetus when something like
this occurs??

do you have a answer or are you and few other change the subject men going to keep
going on and on about how men get slapped?

we know theres domestic abuse in both areas.. no ones denying it, but if you fall
into that Im going to ignore the question at hand and expect sympathy well sorry
but we are having a discussion here, I dont see a thread started for men by any men
to address these issues!! ZIMMY your the king of the crop, why dont you bring
forth the issues bothering you in another thread under the appropriate heading and
all those domestically abused boys can follow you .. does that sound like a plan?

so that this thread can have its discussion back.. Ive asked questions that no one
has answered because its off in another direction..

now its back on course, and the topic again is about domestic abuse and 800
thousand women ..

lets try this again..

z_dariusz.. I am surprised, usually your pretty spot on, no ones denying that
men dont get abused, but I do see some denying the facts presented in this
discussion or at least jumping around the questions instead of answering them.

There's no excuse for any violence toward women,please don't give that nonsense man get abused by women.

the statistics are much higher;violence toward women compare toward Men.
it is incomparable.

The drink is a major element in domestic abuse,maybe Poland should be more open about the drinking problem.

I am not denying anything. See my first post in this thread.
I added to the discussion. That ticked some people off.

Violence against women cannot be tolerated. Neither can be an abuse of the law by women. That's all.

Why do you simplify it like that? Maybe we should talk about women only getting slapped? Men getting framed for abuse is a big deal; it ruins their lives. Men falsely accused of rape carry a stigma; some have served jail time. Women like you are too jaded

and have had your way too long to change. Objectivity is a harsh master.


That's why some of us post the fuller truths. Ignorance like the above quote by ragtime
is typical. .....and that sort of stuff affects policy and law.

The Feibert studies are proof enough that women abuse men equally. Granted, those are U.S. studies and not Polish but it is doubtful if Poland's stats are different. Is Polish abuse 'special' (somehow)?

Women, you will continue to lose ground if you continue to play your 'victim card' while ignoring the concerns of men - wherever they are. The fact that there is a growing men's movement is testament to that. The 'victim' game is coming to an end.

-------------------
I notice someone started a men's thread. Perhaps tomorrow I'll comment on it.
-------------------

I just noticed ragtime has a picture of Che Guevara. Is there more proof of ignorance?
He was a mass murderer.
therealcuba.com/MurderedbyChe.htm

May be of interest -
The Common Law of England permitted a man to beat his wife, provided the diameter of the stick used was not wider than the diameter of his thumb, hence, the term "Rule of Thumb."