Openly gay in Poland

Is that what we were talking about? What rights, specifically, would you like to see gays have that they don't already? Just curious; I honestly really wasn't prepared for this question.


That is indeed what I am saying.


No sh*t. That's why I never said that your acting like an idiot with regards to expressing your homosexuality makes it okay for people to beat the everloving crap out of you, just that it makes it far more likely to happen.


I don't know, through repetitively whupping the asses of transvestites, maybe? What the hell is the correlation? What exactly is it that makes you think that having more gays refusing to look and act like a normal person will make them any more likely to be treated as one?


A) It seems that you have a nasty habit of putting words in my mouth (or whatever the online equivalent of this would be), please stop.

B) I'm not sure that the word 'condone' means quite what you think it does. I can't address this until I'm sure that it's actually what you meant to say.


I agree that the red-hair gene is a recessive one, and people with ginger hair are consequently a minority. So you could say that it is not normal, yes.

I'm not referring specifically to legal rights (great strides have been made in this respect in more enlightened countries), only that gay people should have the right to lead their life as they please (within the confines of laws which apply to everyone else), without being discriminated against.


Do you think this reflects well on Poland? I understand that you are an enlightened individual who can see homosexuality for what it is (a subconscious state of being which is totally harmless to non-homosexuals and can't be passed on/taught/encouraged etc.), so does it sadden you that this is the case?


What it needs is for intelligent and tolerant people to make a stand against it. Not for them to say "Oh well" they deserve it for dessing funny".


I don't intend to, I'm just inferring from your posts.

I'm not entirely sure what your argument is. Is it solely that homosexuality is not "normal"? If so, we've already established that a massive percentage of people can be defined as not "normal". Human beings can not be categorized as being standard or normal, so this particular argument is completely pointless wouldn't you agree? The argument is more specifically about whether homosexuals should be treated with the same respect as other people (say other not normal people such as the disabled or the ginger).


Apologies, "won't condone" should read "won't condemn" or "appear to condone"


Then back to the crux of our argument. Why do you consider it ok for J.K. Rowling to have not "normal" ginger characters in her books, yet you consider it to be a big problem that one of her characters is homosexual?

There are plenty of homosexual teachers in society, why is this a problem? Alastor Moody (Harry's Defence against the Dark Arts teacher in the Goblet of Fire) only has one eye! THIS IS NOT NORMAL! Do you have a big problem with this character only having one eye? If not, why not?

Pan Kazimierz, you should be f*cking ashamed of yourself.
You realize you are talking about HUMAN BEINGS right? This is sickening.

Well, they do: when someone acts to take away or disregard those rights in regards to them, that is a crime. It would be nice if this didn't happen, but it does, so one acknowledge this and work to avoid it's happening.


It does sadden me that this is the case, but I am a practical person who realizes that it is not within his or anyone else's power to change this, while it is in many people's power to circumnavigate it instead. Pirates sail the seven seas? Well, people should be free to sail without fear of being robbed and killed, but since that's not the case, those people would be wise to invest in some manpower and weaponry before taking off from port.


And this has improved the situation considerably thus far. It has not solved it, and as such a pragmatic observer may still freely that most of the victims were those dumb enough to make themselves targets for what such element still remains.


You know, at this point I'm really not sure, either. I guess I'm just trying to argue that cross-dressing in Poland is still a stupid thing to do, regardless of what rights you have as a human being to do such stupid things?


Oh, that's what I'd thought you'd meant. Well, in that case, I do indeed condemn it. But I condemn also the fool who brings this upon himself (yes, his choice of dress in a place he knows to be dangerously homophobic does make him a fool). I'd call an idiot no less the person in the flashy suit with the iPhone and all that other good stuff in the poor neighborhood, even though I don't in any way condone and do indeed condemn muggers.


I don't. I know I said I'd be disgusted at hearing this or some such*, but a first impulse (for, to be honest, my first thought upon learning of this trivial fact was, indeed, something like: "gross."), but I don't consider it to be anything like atrocious or such. But I do have a nagging problem with how the immediate mob reaction was inexplicable joy. Maybe I'm just not used to this sort of thing, but, do you see this as something to be especially overjoyed about?


Well, I wouldn't have used the term "idiots" to describe animals, now, would I?

IronsE11 are you gay?

Guys you have to realize that the single and ultimate goal of all gay movements is to increase the number of lovers for gays in society.Let's look at statistics:About 35% of imprisoned men develop homosexual relationships but 95% of them do not remain gays when they get out of prison.Gays are aware of this fact.

This means that there is a latent population pool for gay lovers which can exceed to 30-40% of male population under special circumstances.So Sasha is right when he claims that parades etc actually support and spread gayness,it is not about showing themselves it is about increasing their lovers potential.

I pretty much agree with all of your points although I think it sad that so much emphasis is put on the homosexual avoiding this kind of abuse, instead of condemning the mindless idiots who condone it. I don't really see why what someone wears should have anything to do with how someone is treated, as the real problem is that a number of people simply don't like homosexuality. The fact that another person's sexuality (whether they choose to "display" it or not) has absolutely no influence on anyone else but them, makes it even more baffling to me.

I can't help but think that if it were a disabled person receiving abuse for being in a wheelchair, the general atitude wouldn't be:

"Well that's what happens if you go out in public in a wheelchair. I don't have a problem with the disabled, but this sort of thing will happen when they display their disability in public".

Likewise, following a spate of brutal rapes I doubt the general atitude wouldn't be:

"Well there will always be rapists as long as girls continue to go out in short skirts".

IMO, the emphasis in such situations should be put on the ignorant people who think it's ok to discriminate and treat people like sh1t based on their sexuality, as oppposed to the people that don't go out of their way to keep their sexuality secret.

It has been commented that Polish society respects sexuality as a personal mater, and that people are ok with whatever other people choose to do in the privacy of their own homes. Whilst I respect this position, I would question why I can go out and, hold hands and kiss my girlfriend in the middle of Czestochowa without anyone caring, yet if two gay people did the same then they would be viewed as "ramming it down people's throats".


I think the answer is evident from the reference to my girlfriend in my last post. I am very comfortable with my sexuality, and have a girlfriend most men could only dream of :-)

Funnily enough, her attitudes have changed since leaving the backwater which is Czestahowa. One of her good friends is a Polish hairdresser living in London. I don't know why he moved to London, but it could be because of respective attitudes toward homosexuality. Anyway, he has a very close relationship with his boyfriend/fiance which she respects in a way she couldn't have imagined previously. Likewise, I have a number of gay friends, and have a decent understanding of the nature of homosexuality.

Ignorant wind-up merchants such as Southern do not have a clue what they are talking about:


I would not deny that there might be a millitant "gay movement" aimed at achieving the above stated, but to actually think that is representative of homosexuals in general is laughable. I have gone for a drink with gay couples on a number of occasions and enjoyed my evening in the same way as drinking with heterosexual friends. Some people are so stupid, that they can't comprehend this, and are unable to view it as anything other than some kind of underhand gay conversion strategy.

Like I said, these people are incredibly stupid.

I don't think so!

Gays were always a part of mankind...also in nature btw.
Just the way it was seen, allowed, accepted or prohibited changed over the time. Making them either forbidden, hence invisible or more openly visible, but not more or less.

Either you are gay or not, no amount of pressure will change it, positively or negatively.

Just because a religiously suppressing society punishes gayness and tries to make them invisible doesn't make them go away...they are only forced to hide it.

This was as I was advising the original poster on how to get by in Poland. Telling him that other people should be more tolerant of his displays wouldn't exactly help him much now, would it?


Well, doesn't exactly fit. Maybe if they could just as easily go out without a wheelchair, but they can't. And if they could, then yes, they should be ashamed of themselves for using a wheelchair! It's bad enough that America's already gotten motorized shopping carts for people too fat (for, as no disability is required to use them, the majority of users are simply fat) to walk from shelf to shelf to do their shopping!


Also different somewhat; gay-bashers chose targets that they can see as gays. Most rapists can see who or not is a girl, and who is good-looking, so the biggest problem is avoiding the sort of area where rapes could likely occur without anyone noticing. Especially if they're not carrying pepper spray, and even more so if they're wearing revealing clothing.


I was under the impression that they were actually going out of their way to broadcast it. Nonetheless, you may be right in a broader context, but still not good advice to tell to a travelling gay.


Well, what can I say. It's true that there are people who get angry over opposite-sex PDA, as well.
I personally stepped outside on my balcony for some fresh air late the other night and saw a couple of easy-on-the-eyes young women walking on the street next to my house and laughing, until one of them stopped in the light cast by my yard's street-lamp (I do find it kind of annoying how it's right there, on my lawn) and smothered the other with a full-face kiss so roughly they fell to the ground, still laughing. Whether they were just raging drunk (another commodity in this area) or actually swung that way I don't know, but I didn't mind too much either way. =)

Don't know that I'd feel the same about two men, though. Probably just be quiet and go back inside.

Absolutely spot on 100%. I find it amazing that so many poeple are unable to grasp this most basic of concepts.


Fair enough. I guess the best advice is "stay away from Poland for a few years yet".


Of course, the comparisons are not not totally direct, but the principle remains: No one should have to hide who they are (or refrain from expressing themselves), if it the practice does not infringe upon the liberty of other individuals.

But they dont hide it do they, no disrespect to your post at all.

Gays seem to love ramming it down other mens throats that they suck dick, and take it up the sh1tter etc.. I try to stay away from gay threads but their always ramming it down your throat in one way or another just look at the Dutch faggots on this forum.

BUT:
I'll have to do some research, which I can't right now, but isn't the percentage of homosexuals far greater in some cultures than others? Japan, Africa, for example, as compared to eh, not to cater to stereotypes since I'm speaking without definitive proof here but, France? If that's true (which I'm not sure that it is, and I would normally check it to be sure before posting/not posting), then why would that be the case?

Some do, some don't. I tend to think that the scale and pomp of some gay pride festivals is in someway a reaction to the disdain with which many people view homosexuality. It's like a big f*ck you. If no one gave a sh1t, there wouldn't be much to march about. It's like the black civil rights movement... it diminished somewhat with the abolition of apartheid.


Again, a massive generalisation, and one that can only lead me to believe that you don't know many gay people. I know gay/bi people who are married (to heterosexual partners), who have publically reppressed their natural inclination for the same sex, despite the fact that it is pretty obvious. Likewise, there are people that I knew for ages before finding out they were gay. Very few of my gay friends go on about their sexuality in my company. It's probably because I couldn't care less.

If a guy and a girl are holding hands or kissing in public then nobody bats an eyelid (unless it is excessive), but if a gay couple do the same it is classed as ramming it down other people's throats.

MVEFA, or what ever the hell his screen name is, hes a shirt lifter, dirt box raider, putting from the rough what ever, but does that Koont ever stop advertising it? Ok your gay now shut the fcuk up. Could you imagine me or any other hetrosexual member banging on about, fcuking women, sex, arse or what ever? You really are your own worst enemies.

Maybe just overcompensating? Like showing those the proverbial finger who would like to take a club to their heads?

If both sides would relax and just ignore each other it would be best....I think....

Sex and Religion is really best if kept at home...IMHO!

It's because it's almost impossible to measure. If you took a survey in Iran, questioning people on whether they had a homosexual inclination you would find very few (if any) who would admit to it. Doesn't mean they don't like d1ck, it just means that they wont tell anyone about it. In Britain or the US, the situation is different as society is (as a whole) more accepting of it.

Sorry to harp on about gay friends or people I know, but I once knew someone who served in the Israeli army. He was an incredible homophobe. He tried for a long time to persuade himself he wasn't gay because (apparently) Israeli society isn't the most accepting (recent events might back this up). He watched American Beauty on a flight from England to Israel and burst in to tears before coming out to his family, He was always gay, he just tried to convince himself otherwise.

You might be surprosed the number of people who do this. I've always found it hard to imagine! If you like d1ck, why spend your entire life trying to kid yourself that you don't!


Er... you've never seen a heterosexual PF member talk about that sort of thing?


Quite amusing that the only reason I know this is because YOU have just told me.


Again, spot on.

IronsE11 you can take a run and jump based on the fundamental fact ive pointed out above. Many gays on this very forum advertise the fact that theyre gay out of all proportion.

Dirty gay or born gay that is the question?


You live in the centre of a city where its totally acceptable. Ugly guys that cant pull a women for shite resort to the otherside.

Based on what fact? You've posted nothing other than ill-informed rubbish.


Maybe, and many gays don't. WHO GIVES A FLYING TOSS?


Pretty much, although their are still quite a few religious folk who oppose it based on age-old bigotry.


Yep, I can't think of a woman in the world that would go near that George Michael chap!

Jesus wept.

Thanks for your input cock. I have to attend to my naturally born daughter, a true miracle of this world..

Yeah...lots of famous singers, artists and actors were/are gay...quite disproportional actually!

(Maybe it's because acceptance/tolerance was there easier to achieve)

I too don't think heteros on both sides would chuck them out of their beds because of ugliness...:)
(Even if they would be ugly, money and fame would not be negligible either)

I was going to ask this to the Dutch guy but hes not here at the moment. What happens if you want gay sex and your partners just eaten a massive three course meal and is dying for a monumental dump and you as a gay partner want sex? what happens then?

Do you wait for him to take a sh1te or what?

yuck

A fantastic point well made.


That's a strange thing to want to know. Especially as you have spent the last few posts bleating about not wanting to hear about that sort of thing.

This is only a guess, but maybe they just suck each other off.

What would you do if you wanted to f*ck your wife up the arse and she had just eaten a massive three course meal and was dying for a monumental dump?

Get your dirty ass down the latest fisting club will yah Irons.

Okay, I have a laugh with a Polish guy who is on secondment to my office and today he made a joke about extention (telephone) and seating plan (he made reference to the colour coding) so I changed it and sent him an 'amended' version with his block (imagine his name in a square with his extention number) in bright pink - I also amended the key on the plan too so it read "slightly gay" (next to the newly added bright pink) - he wasnt happy and admitted that he gets angry when he sees gay people...WTF, this is a 27 year old professional inteligent guy from Warsaw..I expect this attitude from some ignorant chav in the UK...

Thankfully I played the "you misunderstood me 'Gay' means happy" card ;0) I was actually quite shocked...Im almost sorry now I didnt put him the usual apartments we put secondees in, which is opposite Anal Treet (AKA Canal Street) which is the main strip for the gay village in Manchester..might have given him a bit of 'exposure'!

Come on Wroclaw Boy, it was a serious question! What would you do in that situation? You asked the same question did you not?

You might think that throwing around homophobic insults is funny or clever, but it just makes you look like a child. Rather worrying that you claim to be a father. If you want to make a rational point then go ahead, I will happily debate it with you. If not, then by all means keep throwing around playground insults.

I could not care less if you think I'm gay or not. As have I pointed out previously, I have a stunning girlfriend that most men could only dream of.


Always made me laugh did that. A clever bit of tip-ex on the road-sign turning the Canal Street in to anal treet. Especially given as it is the gay capital of Manchester. Quite a good night out if I recall.

Its not tip-ex they scratch it off, its a pain in the ar*e (pardon the pun) for M/c Council ;0)

Ive not been down there for a while..I love Velvet, the food is fab...

Back on topic:

I have no problem with gay people, as Ive said a couple of my good friends are lesbians, they're not particularly overly butch and dont get touchy feely in public, they are just normal people who prefer to keep their private life (read: sexual contact) private...I dont actually enjoy watching hetros pawing each other in the streets, its all about time and a place. I do however hate and I mean hate, screaming fagots as do other gay friends I have. they are not a true representation of gay people.

Ok peeps to be realistic Gays are not suppose to exist and dont try bash me for saying it. Its the truth wether you like it or not

Dog mates with a female dog
A male fish milks Female fishs eggs
A bull mates to a cow
Rooster to a hen

I think you get what im saying

Anyway i couldnt care a less if your gay as long as you dont try it on with me

But you seem so cute ;)


Ah ha!, there is one tiny problem with your statement, they do exist.


As for your masochistic tenancies and wanting to be bashed, well, i will have to leave that to someone else.


Have you never seen a male dog riding another male dog?.
as for chickens and bulls, is that like the birds and the bees?.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior


It's nothing unnatural it seems...