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I'm an American who lived in Poland for 6 years. I'm not welcome anymore.


lowfunk99 10 | 397  
19 Jul 2009 /  #91
I was treated very well by the Straż Graniczna. I have no complaint on my treatment.

To be honest, they did not feel good about what they were doing. They had no choice in the matter. I had met them earlier in the processing of my other paperwork.

I am most upset because I tried to do everything the proper way. I would have never gotten caught if I didn't try to be legal.

My school is supposed to be getting a major fine and possible being banned from hiring foreigners.
tj123  
19 Jul 2009 /  #92
Incidentally, I've heard of the American authorities deporting people from the USA at gunpoint who have overstayed their visa waiver. You should be glad that the Straż Graniczna allowed you a week.

You have HEARD? Nonsense. Yeah people are deported everywhere some right and some wrong but don't you dare go acting like Poland is somehow better. He should be glad? You should be ashamed.

I am most upset because I tried to do everything the proper way. I would have never gotten caught if I didn't try to be legal.

This is a huge problem here...their rules are so screwed up and they dont even know them so often that they screw a lot of good people over. I dont support illegal immigration but if you do everything they ask and follow the rules and

Schengen rules are rules - if you receive a ban from one Schengen country, you're banned from the whole lot. It's the only way that open borders can work.

How do you think Spanish police are going to deal with someone who is listed as having a ban from Schengen? They're not going to invite him for tea and crumpets - they're going to invite him to the local police station in order to process his deportation.

I honestly don't care...it is simply WRONG to be banned from the entire EU because of POLAND. It makes about as much sense as being kicked out of CarreFour and not being allowed into any shop every again in the entire continent...how dare POLAND say I can't go to Finland, Gemany, Spain etc...they have no claim and its stupid.
Harry  
19 Jul 2009 /  #93
Poland doesn't say anybody can't go to Germany, Finland, Spain, etc. Germany, Finland, Spain, etc say certain people can't visit their countries.
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
19 Jul 2009 /  #94
RevokeNice...he was told he was banned from the EU for a year.

They cant ban him from working in the EU...They can only ban him from Poland...They were talking shite! England cant ban someone from working in Poland, how the hell would they know if some American was going to work there...
tj123  
19 Jul 2009 /  #95
Poland doesn't say anybody can't go to Germany, Finland, Spain, etc. Germany, Finland, Spain, etc say certain people can't visit their countries.

But the excuse used is some violation of rules in POLAND. Not right or fair to punish you in other places. To not be able to even set foot in another EU nation because of what he went through is just plain stupid and wrong...whether this is the actual case or not I dont know as I have heard others being told they are banned...but dont know anyone who tried to enter after. They claim they flag your details and if you enter a Schengen port you will be denied...again if true its ********...
Harry  
19 Jul 2009 /  #96
It's not an excuse: it's a reason. Not that countries need any reason to refuse to allow foreigners into their territory (look at the way some Poles are refused US visas). Personally I'd say that previous violation of law is a fairly good indication of future behaviour. This guy has already got form for working while on a tourist visa....
delphiandomine 88 | 18,177  
19 Jul 2009 /  #97
They cant ban him from working in the EU...They can only ban him from Poland...They were talking shite! England cant ban someone from working in Poland, how the hell would they know if some American was going to work there...

Yes they can. So many people here don't seem to understand Schengen rules. To have open borders, the deal is that a ban from one country counts in all. For that reason, a ban from Poland is a ban from Schengen.

He'll be allowed to come to the UK/Ireland/Cyprus/Romania/Bulgaria - but he's banned from all Schengen member states. There's no guarantee he'll actually get into those countries - UK immigration would be inclined to thoroughly check someone who was currently banned from Schengen due to overstay.

As Harry says, those countries have agreed (as part of Schengen) that they will enforce bans on anyone removed from a Schengen member state. This is part of what makes Schengen work.

This is a huge problem here...their rules are so screwed up and they dont even know them so often that they screw a lot of good people over. I dont support illegal immigration but if you do everything they ask and follow the rules and

He *didn't* follow the rules. He was here after 90 days without a work permit (and was working, something prohibited!) and without a valid residence permit. You're allowed to stay in Schengen for 90 days out of every 180. Therefore, he received a ban.

The rules are pretty straightforward - you come here on a tourist stamp, then you've got 45 days to sort out a work permit and a residence permit in order to complete the paperwork before the 90 day period expires. If you don't comply with them, then you're going to be in trouble if you're caught. Simple.

I honestly don't care...it is simply WRONG to be banned from the entire EU because of POLAND. It makes about as much sense as being kicked out of CarreFour and not being allowed into any shop every again in the entire continent...how dare POLAND say I can't go to Finland, Gemany, Spain etc...they have no claim and its stupid.

It's not about if you care or don't care - the point is that in order to have 'soft' internal borders, there are exceptionally tough punishments for anyone caught breaking the rules.

But the excuse used is some violation of rules in POLAND. Not right or fair to punish you in other places. To not be able to even set foot in another EU nation because of what he went through is just plain stupid and wrong...whether this is the actual case or not I dont know as I have heard others being told they are banned...but dont know anyone who tried to enter after. They claim they flag your details and if you enter a Schengen port you will be denied...again if true its ********...

It is right and fair - Schengen rules are rules, and one of those rules are that if you break the immigration regulations, then you're banned from the entire zone. If you don't like it, don't enter Schengen.

Yes, they'll enter his details onto SIS4All and it should be checked upon entry. There are ways to enter Schengen without too tough checks (via the UK is a easy way, the French rarely conduct systematic checks at Dover) - but even attempting to enter Schengen while banned is enough cause for the state in question to prolong your ban.

There's also the point that Poland may deny a residence permit in future to anyone that has a criminal record in Poland - which is why the poster should be seeking the services of an imimigration lawyer as a priority.

If you break immigration law, what do you expect to happen? To be invited to drink tea with the President?

It's not an excuse: it's a reason. Not that countries need any reason to refuse to allow foreigners into their territory (look at the way some Poles are refused US visas). Personally I'd say that previous violation of law is a fairly good indication of future behaviour. This guy has already got form for working while on a tourist visa....

You're much more of an expert than me, do you know what his chances are of actually getting a residence permit (or even visa-free entry?) after his ban is up?
RevokeNice 15 | 1,854  
19 Jul 2009 /  #98
It's not an excuse: it's a reason. Not that countries need any reason to refuse to allow foreigners into their territory (look at the way some Poles are refused US visas).

Magic Arse will give amnesty to all the illegals in America.
tj123  
19 Jul 2009 /  #99
It's not an excuse: it's a reason. Not that countries need any reason to refuse to allow foreigners into their territory (look at the way some Poles are refused US visas). Personally I'd say that previous violation of law is a fairly good indication of future behaviour. This guy has already got form for working while on a tourist visa....

Poles are refused US visas so often because such a high percentage overstay...its simple...and again my point is there should be no basis for Poland to ban someone from the EU...the Schengen treaty dropped the ball on that one...the US has arrangements for movement with Canada and Mexico but we cant ban people from those nations if they overstay....again assuming these bans are real (but they are claimed by border agents for sure and passports stamped etc)

If you read it properly his school misadvised him...hardly his fault and its not like he was scamming...

In addition even people following the ever changing and oft made up rules are being screwed. The system is horribly broken and nobody can be bothered to fix it. Like most things here..
delphiandomine 88 | 18,177  
19 Jul 2009 /  #100
Poles are refused US visas so often because such a high percentage overstay...its simple...and again my point is there should be no basis for Poland to ban someone from the EU...the Schengen treaty dropped the ball on that one..

Dropped the ball? If you have open borders with Poland, don't you think that Poland might want to ensure that people deported stay deported? Likewise, if you're German, do you really want to have someone deported from Poland entering your country?

Someone caught breaking immigration regulations has to go, it's that simple. And to make Schengen work, then you need Schengen-wide bans.

If you read it properly his school misadvised him...hardly his fault and its not like he was scamming...

I feel sorry for his plight, but it's his obligation, not the schools to sort out the relevant permits.

In addition even people following the ever changing and oft made up rules are being screwed. The system is horribly broken and nobody can be bothered to fix it. Like most things here..

What ever changing rules? Poland has easy rules to follow - and they're well documented online. I believe Harry here has made countless posts around the internet about the process. Yes, the rules changed after Schengen, but that wasn't exactly Poland's fault.

Tell me, for someone caught breaking immigration regulations in a serious way, what should be the punishment?
tj123  
19 Jul 2009 /  #101
It is really easy for you to talk when you are not affected by these situations. You obvioulsy have NO idea what you speak of when it comes to rules. They DO NOT FOLLOW THEM. the law may say they have to reply in 45 days for example but they often don't...give no reason...wont discuss it/wont answer phones/are on holiday etc....I dont care what you THINK you know this is what happens in practice.

lowfunk didnt do anything serious as you claim...you are heartless and dont have a clue how it really works. People give false info all the time...IN OFFICIAL OFFICES...and who pays when it falls down? Not the office worker....

You morons act like he was a dangerous criminal...he was SCREWED by people here who were supposed to advise him....

To answer your question I doubt any Germans would care if lowfunk99 came to Germany after being deported for this *********** clearly just want to argue and have no real understanding of the issues.

Poland could easily give quarter/assistance to people having troubles because of their stupid and indecipherable system...but they dont......because "its not their problem"...and this is the underlying problem in Poland...taking responsibility for faults and fixing them...the immigration system is screwed up not lowfunk99...
delphiandomine 88 | 18,177  
19 Jul 2009 /  #102
You morons act like he was a dangerous criminal...he was SCREWED by people here who were supposed to advise him....

Screwed by who? The school? Ten minutes research online will tell you to trust nothing that Polish schools say and to cross-check everything. There's enough stories on here alone about sharp practices, schools not paying tax despite providing documents saying that it had been paid (and deducted) alongside much more.

The only person who screwed him was himself. He didn't do his homework, didn't check to see if the school was registered with the Ministry of Education, didn't chase up the right offices. As a non-EU citizen, he had to comply with immigration regulations - and chose not to.

To answer your question I doubt any Germans would care if lowfunk99 came to Germany after being deported for this *********** clearly just want to argue and have no real understanding of the issues.

I think the German Federal Police would have quite a lot to say about someone who has a 'hit' in SIS4All with a currently valid ban from the Schengen zone. His passport is stamped with the ban, and even after the ban, getting the tourist 90 day stamp will not be a formality with previous form for overstaying.

If he wants, I've got the Schengen handbook somewhere if he wants to check to see if the stamp in his passport confirms the ban.

It is really easy for you to talk when you are not affected by these situations. You obvioulsy have NO idea what you speak of when it comes to rules. They DO NOT FOLLOW THEM. the law may say they have to reply in 45 days for example but they often don't...give no reason...wont discuss it/wont answer phones/are on holiday etc....I dont care what you THINK you know this is what happens in practice.

Is that any reason to break immigration regulations? You can't blame anyone but yourself if you don't comply, it's that simple.

lowfunk didnt do anything serious as you claim...you are heartless and dont have a clue how it really works. People give false info all the time...IN OFFICIAL OFFICES...and who pays when it falls down? Not the office worker....

He didn't do anything serious? I would love to know what the American authorities think of people who overstay. I'm sure they'll be all 'hey, it's allright, you broke our immigation regulations, but we'll let you stay'. Of course America doesn't throw people out and effectively ban them from ever returning.

People give false information in official offices throughout the world. The UK's HMRC is renowned for giving wrong information - to the point where you have to receive all communication in writing simply to cover your own back. What's new?

I still want to know what you think should be done with people who break immigration regulations.

Poland could easily give quarter/assistance to people having troubles because of their stupid and indecipherable system...but they dont......because "its not their problem"...and this is the underlying problem in Poland...taking responsibility for faults and fixing them...the immigration system is screwed up not lowfunk99...

Stupid, indecipherable system? The system is pretty easy as far as I can tell.

As far as I'm aware, you can't convert the 'visa waiver' into a valid residence visa in America. You can do so in Poland - so who's messed up here?

If he followed the rules, he wouldn't have been deported. Simple.
Harry  
19 Jul 2009 /  #103
Why should Poland give assistance to people struggling with the Polish immigration system?
tj123  
19 Jul 2009 /  #104
I am not going to argue with you anymore...you are trying to get your intellectual rocks off while talking about someone else's misery and that is disturbing.

I dont care what you want to know and I find you repulsive.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,177  
19 Jul 2009 /  #105
Why should Poland give assistance to people struggling with the Polish immigration system?

I was just about to say the same thing.

He could easily pay a lawyer to help. Costly, but with something with serious consequences is concerned, sensible.

I am not going to argue with you anymore...you are trying to get your intellectual rocks off while talking about someone else's misery and that is disturbing.

You still haven't told me what should be done with people who break immigration regulations.

His misery is entirely self inflicted, and while I have sympathy (he just wants to be with his girlfriend) - he has to get the services of an expert.
tj123  
19 Jul 2009 /  #106
Ah the above was to dephiwhatever...but Harry you seem to get off on it as well....sad sad people.
Filios1 8 | 1,336  
19 Jul 2009 /  #107
I dont care what you want to know and I find you repulsive

Good, so you can leave now?
tj123  
19 Jul 2009 /  #108
Did I insult your girlfriend or something? Or are you one of those people that think Poland is perfect and anyone who says otherwise is the enemy?
sobieski 106 | 2,118  
19 Jul 2009 /  #109
Good you are expelled. Europeans in your situation would most likely deported to KZ Guantanamo.
Me as a Belgian could go any time to your country without a visa. Not that I want.
Facing the brainless morons of the Immigration Service on any US border crossing ?
No thank you.
I think the Old World is way to sophisticated :)
tj123  
19 Jul 2009 /  #110
Hehe....you like most people here have no idea what you are talking about...really....your post is full of nonsense. Amusing but disappointing. Tiny country Napoleon syndrome is strong with you.

Only really disgusting people would enjoy someone being separated from his loved one and his life being messed up while he was doing as he was told was right....shame on you. One day I hope you suffer a worse fate and see how smug you are then.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,177  
19 Jul 2009 /  #111
Only really disgusting people would enjoy someone being separated from his loved one and his life being messed up while he was doing as he was told was right....shame on you. One day I hope you suffer a worse fate and see how smug you are then.

Who told him that what he was doing was right? The school? Anyone with an ounce of sense would know to double check *everything* in a foreign country where rules and regulations might be different, especially where immigration is concerned.

We don't know the full facts - it might be that he didn't need a work permit, but he still needed the relevant residence permit. If he didn't have it, then it's his own fault.
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
19 Jul 2009 /  #112
tj123

Rules are rules and have to be obayed..He didn't follow the correct channels and was expelled, illegal immigrants are illegal immigrants regardless of their nationality.

Yes they can. So many people here don't seem to understand Schengen rules. To have open borders, the deal is that a ban from one country counts in all. For that reason, a ban from Poland is a ban from Schengen.

Well, I learnt something new today, it does make sense, my apologies for not believing in the first place.
RevokeNice 15 | 1,854  
19 Jul 2009 /  #113
You are more than welcome in Ireland. I will help you find employment. Whats your ethnicity?
lowfunk99 10 | 397  
19 Jul 2009 /  #114
I am not banned from Poland because of overstaying my visitor visa. Poland and the US had an agreement prior to Poland joining schengen. I left Poland every 90 days.

I am banned because I did not have a work permit.

I had filed all my paperwork with the exception of my work permit. A work permit is something you need the employer to do.

Most of that paperwork I needed the help of my school and they did help me.

The laws have changed a few times in the past 2 years. Even the government people really didn't know the laws.
tj123  
19 Jul 2009 /  #115
The problem is someone who has no papers because the Polish government screws their file up (for example) is treated like a true criminal.....they don't care why you have no papers or even if it is their fault...if you cannot see the difference I hope someday you end up in prison for life for parking wrong...makes as much sense.

Lots of stupid "zero tolerance" talk and its clear that never works anywhere.

If someone is purposefully breaking laws with malicious intent fine....deport them...but many cases are not so simple and MANY are the fault of Poland or those acting on it's behalf not the immigrant...but don't let that interrupt the flow of intelligence here. I truly do wish misery on people who are such jerks about others suffering without need....when its you and nobody helps you don't you dare say a word.

tj123

If you apply for a work permit in another member state, I would be 99% sure you will not be refused because of what happened in Poland. Just dont mention it on the relevant documents.

You can get a 90 day holiday visa in Ireland or the UK, without any background checks. Just proof of sufficent funds. While there, apply for work.

Thanks for the useful and sensible advice Revoke....I bet you are right as they can barely keep their lunch orders straight let alone cross national work permits. But I bet they will be on top of the passport flagging for entering the ports so once you are banned and have to leave you are gambling huge.
RevokeNice 15 | 1,854  
19 Jul 2009 /  #116
tj123

Have you any european ancestry? If you have, and you can prove it, you may be entitled to a passport from that nation. Have you heard of Jus Sanguin ancestoral laws? What is your ethnicity? They cannot ban an EU citizen. ;)
delphiandomine 88 | 18,177  
19 Jul 2009 /  #117
I am not banned from Poland because of overstaying my visitor visa. Poland and the US had an agreement prior to Poland joining schengen. I left Poland every 90 days.

Yes you are. Poland (as with every other Schengen country) applies the 90/180 rule, which says that you can only be in Schengen as a visitor for 90 days out of every 180 days. Leaving every 90 days means nothing now. The internet still has information suggesting that a 'visa run' is enough - but it isn't.

I am banned because I did not have a work permit.

I had filed all my paperwork with the exception of my work permit. A work permit is something you need the employer to do.

How did you get the right to stay without a work permit? Anyway, working without a work permit (if required is a pretty serious offence in most countries.

If someone is purposefully breaking laws with malicious intent fine....deport them...but many cases are not so simple and MANY are the fault of Poland or those acting on it's behalf not the immigrant.

Working without a work permit is pretty malicious and deliberate, I'd say.

It's worth bearing in mind that even if the American here manages to enter Schengen without a check (quite possible!) - the Straż Graniczna have been doing spot checks throughout the country. I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of someone caught in Poland with an existing ban from Schengen, especially if you knew what the detention centres are like.
tj123  
19 Jul 2009 /  #118
He didn't intend to work without the permit and the school screwed him...you are either purposefully ignoring this fact or you are an idiot.

Why are you so interested in condemning this guy? Were you dumped by an American who was deported?

People like you with no ability to reason working in the immigration office are half the problem.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,177  
19 Jul 2009 /  #119
He didn't intend to work without the permit and the school screwed him...you are either purposefully ignoring this fact or you are an idiot.

I'm not denying it, but it's not the fault of the Straż Graniczna or the Polish civil service, is it? It's a private matter between him and the school. Unfortunately, he probably doesn't have any paperwork where the school says that they'll get him a work permit - so he's not going to have any legal remedy.

I don't see why blaming the State has any relevance here.

Why are you so interested in condemning this guy? Were you dumped by an American who was deported?

I have no time for people who don't abide by immigration regulations. It's your obligation to find out about them and comply with them, it's that simple.

People like you with no ability to reason working in the immigration office are half the problem.

There is nothing to reason about - he was working illegally in Poland. If you were working illegally in America, do you really think that they would do anything apart from throw you out?
tj123  
19 Jul 2009 /  #120
Well nobody cares what you "have time for" dear....you have no say either way. I can tell you were rejected by a Yank now...its on the wall.

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