PolishForums LIVE  /  Archives [3]    
 
Posts by lesser  

Joined: 19 Oct 2007 / Male ♂
Last Post: 7 Jul 2018
Threads: Total: 4 / In This Archive: 4
Posts: Total: 1311 / In This Archive: 1076
From: Poland, Gdansk

Displayed posts: 1080 / page 22 of 36
sort: Latest first   Oldest first   |
lesser   
25 Jun 2008
News / ARE LATVIANS AND OTHER 'BALTICS' HOSTILE TOWARDS POLES? [60]

Because one strange Latvian girl badly wanted somebody visit her country you try to suggest that Balts are polonophobic? Please, better think about you way of reasoning.

I think that except Lithuanians they have little idea about Poland. I have talked with bunch of Estonians and they did not seems to know much about our country. Neither they have any affection. Most of them were rather concentrated on Russia.
lesser   
24 Jun 2008
News / Polish leftist/radical culture... [38]

At that time Polish communist party hadn't any serious candidates for leadership, however somebody was needed to be the number one. Communist camp was weaker and weaker in the whole region and that is why especially in Soviet satellite countries local leaders were lacking confidence.

Chausescu confidence was originated also from the fact that he really felt to be number one in his country, Chinese were far away . While Jaruzelski was constantly controlled by the Soviets.
lesser   
23 Jun 2008
News / WAŁĘSA DEBATE RAGES ON... [9]

Walesa is not a Jew and even if he would be then our opinion about his actions shouldn't be affected by such fact. If I would know some competent and honest Jew here then I would certainly vote on him to prevent incompetent idiots in our parliament to be re-elected.
lesser   
23 Jun 2008
News / Polish leftist/radical culture... [38]

No political slant, just pointing out that Jaruzelski would not be considered a leftist. I shouldn't think THAT statement is controversial.

You clearly implied that he was "right-wing reaction" to "leftist" as I understand Solidarity. Intentional or not, this is pure historical revisionism. Mr Jaruzelski even if one argue about "leftist" label was internationalist socialist for sure, certainly had nothing do do with rightists. If you disagree, please provide some evidence of his right-wing policies.

While Solidarity was not leftist, their official program was socialistic however otherwise this movement would be quickly banned. Thus even if I admit that the largest part had social-conservative views, also other people joined them. Also some whom normally have very negative opinion about workers unions.
lesser   
22 Jun 2008
News / Thoughts on present day Lech Walesa [27]

They are both historians of younger generation from Poland. I'm curious why some people considered this book biased and tendentious before it was even published?! I guess, because they are biased themselves.
lesser   
21 Jun 2008
News / Polish leftist/radical culture... [38]

You can count the members of communist party.They were millions before 1989.

Those were mostly opportunists, for are not radicals.

Your complete disinterest in identifying and engaging the ideas of the Left in Poland may not be representative of right wing sentiments, but the human tendency to make quick generalizations can't help but think that it is. That is why it is incumbent upon you to make your case by spelling your opinions out for us, or you'll always find yourself on the losing end of the argument.

If so, then I say that almost all forum members seems to be completely disinterested in identifying and engaging the pan-Slavic ideas that Crow represent in this forum. Apparently they are on the losing end of the argument.

The style of the left is to raise populist slogans and avoid any debate. Because the result of such debate surely wouldn't be in their favor. The EU is good example, they don't discuss with their political opponents at all.

Leftists have higher IQ than right wings.It is common knowledge and proved fact.
Guess what party has the voters with lower IQ?Republican or Democrats?

I completely disagree, I think that our understanding of political labels must be very different. Rightist is somebody who share social conservatism and liberal views on economic issues. There is no many of such people, they are elites. Few years ago Polish TV channel TVN made nationwide internet IQ test. Minor political party with such a profile as I described above happened to be a winner, while the result of the supporters of post-communist left was poor.

Following this logic, this is wrong to describe all Republican voters to be right wing. Electoral base of Republican party is much wider, it consist from following parts:

- rightists
- social conservatives (this seems to be the largest group right now)
- libertarians

I believe he's refering to General Wojciech Jaruzelski, the communist military man who declared martial law in 1981 as a right-wing reaction to Solidarity. He would be considered the opposite of what you're talking about.

What is your point? Jaruzelski is a rightist and Solidarity is leftist?
lesser   
16 Jun 2008
News / Father Rydzyk In the News Again [28]

Agreed.

Confuse you all a bit more,but,over here in the UK we also have the "high church",which is anglican/protestant but is all but catholic in its rites and rituals,the only difference being it doesnt take orders from some gerry in rome :)

Anglicanism is the closest protestant branch. I would not be surprised if sooner or later significant number of Anglican clergy decided to reunite with Vatican.

Beside of that I have watched few times some English speaking religion channels with American "showmen" pastors. This is quite funny indeed .
lesser   
16 Jun 2008
History / Are Germans going to pay for WW2? [180]

WHEN IN POLAND IN WW2 THERE WAS PRO-NAZI REGIME LIKE IN NORWAY OR FRANCE?

Does really? Provide the names of those pro-Nazi leaders or back your words.
lesser   
15 Jun 2008
News / EU constitution: 'Strong show' for Irish No vote ? [126]

We have have some of the worst and corrupt politicians in Europe and they really outdid themselves this time.

Most of political establishment is corrupt. Europe and the US should serve as an example to countries from other continents. Unfortunately this is not the case, our politicians rather show them how to cheat, how to make good propaganda.

It is becoming more and more obvious that the establishment, including the political and business classes as well as themainstream media, are not representative of the people whom they are supposed to represent.

You are right, especially attitude of media outlets is a big disappointment. Journalists are supposed to look at hands of politicians and control their moves. Sadly in western world mainstream media abandoned this role. They rather seems to be on payroll of political elites, instead to watch on their hands, they justify their misbehavior on regular basis. Look at articles in European media just after people of Ireland rejected constitution. Journalists shamelessly advise politicians to ignore this referendum. I read for example article in "Le Figaro" and I could not stand author's hypocrisy. The guy know very well that French voters rejected this treaty earlier but this little fact don't bother him too much. In the same time media of course refuse to provide arguments of anti-EU camp to public opinion.

Therefore, while the veneer of democracy exists, the reality is that most people are being led in directions they are increasingly unsure of. I would say tis applies to all aspects of life and not just with regard to the EU. The rejection of this Treaty by Ireland, France and the Netherlands is a clear indication of this fact.

I don't consider so called "representative democracy" to be true democracy. Thus I think that only democratic country is Switzerland. Over there people decide about detailed issues on regular basis, while in other countries referendums are very rare. Even if politician mercifully allow people to vote, they don't feel to be obligated to respect their will as we clearly see. Thus many people may find participation in any elections to be waste of time.

Beside of that if European establishment will assure their opponents that this is impossible to remove them from their posts using democratic procedures, they may find themselves morally justified to try some other ways...

My concern for Ireland, however, is that in the world of realpolitik, we could now find ourselves isolated from the rest of Europe.

I don't think so. Beside of that remember that Europe is just shi*ty Asian peninsula. You have whole world to trade and do business with. Just the country should be competitive, while this depends only from the Irish themselves.
lesser   
15 Jun 2008
News / EU constitution: 'Strong show' for Irish No vote ? [126]

Deise 07

Sorry if this was indeed a irony, I have read too many serious opinions in such mood.

By the way , this is how professional and informative was YES propaganda in Ireland. How low opinion about Irish voters have those people who invented these pictures.

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/files/Lisbon-female.jpg

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/files/Lisbon-male.jpg
lesser   
15 Jun 2008
News / EU constitution: 'Strong show' for Irish No vote ? [126]

Are you pro-EU at all? How do you see the future of Europe?

Europe should be free trade and free travel zone in particular. I don't see how Brussels bureaucrats are necessary to accomplish this goal. They are just parasites on pocket of European taxpayer.

You like the US constitution? Then why are you so deadset against a constitution for the United States of Europe???

You rather mean Socialist United States of Europe? Only stupidity of American politicians could lead their country to somehow lose in competition with such creature. Beside of that, I'm free from obsession to create here some empire. When I hear such ideas. I'm worried about my pocket and also my life in the future. Individuals living in Europe don't need to live in any empire, this is mentality widespread in Russia.

American constitution is really good if you consider how old. It leave space for freedom while EU-project is destined to control and regulate everything possible. It is a pity that American politicians don't seems to follow their constitution anymore.

Beside of that, look how great distance is between American voter and American establishment. You want the same in Europe, while I think that already now politicians in my country consider themselves to be too important. If we can hardly influence those parasites in Warsaw, how on earth we could influence their bosses in Brussels?? We already see how arrogant they are, refusing to recognize results of referendums in France, Netherlands and Ireland or banning referendums at all.

we here in Europe must somehow bring 27 totally different nations under one

Sorry but this is utopia, this is some alternative vision to Crow's Slavdrom?

I'm all for a core Europe

This wont happen, this is just scare for politically immature voters from Eastern Europe. Such solution simply don't fit to socialist pan-European vision of the EU leadership. No country can be left behind, thus for example constant pressure on Switzerland or Norway.
lesser   
14 Jun 2008
News / EU constitution: 'Strong show' for Irish No vote ? [126]

not mention that important things got left out..

Yeah like a flag that as everybody know "never existed before". Eurocrats say that flag was removed and we witness this flag everywhere anyway. They consider people to be total morons, they think that they can say something and do opposite.

What important thing was really removed? And for who this is so important? CXlick the link that I provided to check out yourself that this is almost exactly the same document.

7 years of discussion and re-wording and re-writing ought to do things like that...
The most minimal common consent you wanted? You got it...don't complain now!

Sorry but i never wanted such document to be created. How they write about the same things, this the case of second importance. Beside of that, what you call short? American constitution is short, what they want to impose on us is endless tirade of people whom declared a war to common sense. This document must be so long because they calculate from the start that they want to stick their noses in every single detail of our life. Even if accepted, it will be extended in the future. As I have wrote before, this is nature of bureaucracy.
lesser   
14 Jun 2008
News / EU constitution: 'Strong show' for Irish No vote ? [126]

German is not the lingua franca in the EU...so you haven't read it, right?

I meant your article from Spiegel...

I read the most interesting parts of Lisbon Treaty and how it differ from euro-constitution. Some British anti-EU group made such interesting comparison, article after article. This is available online if anybody here is interested.

In fact this treaty is unreadable because it often refers to some other documents. In my thread about the EU I posted quotes from eurocrats themselves admitting that they intentionally wrote this treaty in this and not other way.

You were against it because....

You are not a newbie in this forum, you read many my posts about this topic. Once you even refused to discuss these issues when I made such offer to you.

Generally this document gives more competences to Brussels bureaucracy on the cost of European countries. While this should be other way around, countries should resign from interventionism in many areas of public life and surrender many competences to its regions. Brussels advocating centralization of power, this is nature of every bureaucratic constructions. One could think that this should be common knowledge in our times that people in the region know better how to resolve their problems than some central authorities. The latter always claims that they know one perfect solution how to resolve problems all over the world. They are simply liars, whether they are Soviets or eurocrats, it doesn't really matter. Such people are in fact far from real issues bothering people in different parts of our continent. Like communists they try to "force" reality to fit to their theories.

I would love to strip regime in Warsaw from a possibility to interfere in affairs of my region/city. I consider them completely incompetent and you say that those donkeys should co-decide about fate of all Europe?? hahaha

Now...for what did they care/not care???

This is exactly the problem with socialists, they stick their noses everywhere and impose solutions that they consider to be the best on every each individual. What is more they force those individuals to finance politics that those people oppose.
lesser   
14 Jun 2008
News / RADICAL PRO-COMMUNSIT PORTAL CLOSED DOWN IN POLAND [7]

Those who had a pleasure to visit this website know how great lose it is for Polish left :)) Those people are joke, they indeed advocated to use force against political opponents however I doubt anybody could treat seriously their efforts.

Michał Nowicki, the unaborted son of rabid pro-abortion agitator Wanda Nowicka

LOL I did not knew that they are related. Apple fallen close to apple tree. :)

For some reason, in Poland and elswehrere in Europe, there exsits a tendency to be "soft on communism" -- a system that destroyed many times more human lives than Naziism and Fascism combined. Any comments?

They are not "soft" towards communism, I dare to say that they quietly sympathize with this ideology. If you look at biographies of those old politicians that run the EU, you will see how many of them were communists when young.

(communism) which in its essence is identical to the Catholicism when stripped of its superficial trappings.

Of course, you are very wrong. Christianity advocate helping people whom find itself in difficult situation from some reason. While socialism or communism treat humans beings like raiser treats animals from the start, they calculate that people are unable to take care about themselves and they obligatory need state intervention to survive. Let me remind you that “liberation theology” so popular in Latin America some time ago was condemned by Pope John Paul II.
lesser   
14 Jun 2008
News / EU constitution: 'Strong show' for Irish No vote ? [126]

Personally I'm delighted with such outcome, it appears that Irish people saved Europe from disaster at least for a while. As you know Polish regime (supported by all parliamentary parties) stripped me from opportunity to vote on this issue. This is progress, previously opponents of the EU were excluded from serious debate and ridiculed by all mainstream media outlets. However we could vote, today this is not the case. The rest of European political establishment with glorious exception of Ireland behave in similar manner.

Now when we know the decision of brave Irish people whom were under huge pressure of Brussels propaganda, we can also read first comments of European political establishment. What the say? Basically they say that they don't care about Irish referendum and they will do what they want anyway. Let remember that Brussels bureaucrats and those European politicians on their payroll already before practically annulled the results of referendums in France and Netherlands where people rejected their pathetic ideas present in project of the pseudo-constitution.

How should citizens of the EU member states react when they witness such a farce. Because this is nothing else than farce, political establishment with full mouth of democratic slogans, arrogantly and shamelessly raping democratic standards, refuse European societies an opportunity to decide about affairs in their own countries. Personally I'm not great enthusiast of democracy but even myself cannot stand this hypocrisy all over around. The question is how ordinary people who consider themselves to be democrats could patiently accept how politicians make fools out of them? How could I respect your opinions if I see just empty slogans while actions say something else? How long this farce will be tolerated, how damn tolerant one can be? :)

So the Irish say "thank you Europe for all your money over the past 30 years. Now **** Off".

What do you think, that the EU bought slaves whom will always support their wet dreams about socialist Europe? How dare you to write "Europe" thinking about this bureaucratic mafia based in Brussels? Sure, they granted to themselves monopoly for "Europeiness" and call whoever disagree with them "anti-European". However are you a child to believe in such silly propaganda?

What have the E.U. ever done for Ireland?

They imposed on this country huge and completely ridiculous bureaucracy.

I must admit that this treaty was made in way to give more power for big countries on cost of small countries.

More power to bigger countries is just a carrot on the stick for people like BB. The same is with money for new members, this is a carrot for you. Those who gain are Brussels bureaucrats, they are the only winners here.

Lets celebrate this temporary success. :)
lesser   
10 Jun 2008
USA, Canada / POLISH AMERICANS AND THE 2008 US ELECTION [79]

I am sorry for you fellows, but until you will have a real choice I will not participate in this farce.

I lost my interest in current campaign when Dr Paul lost his chances to win Republican nomination. I did not check out about third party candidates. However as far as big two is concentrated I must agree with you. I would do the same in your place, even if our views are very different.

Obama regards Iran the no1 danger as well,however he says he will use direct diplomacy,Kennedy style.

Bush promised non-interventionist policy before he won against Clinton.

In order to beat Obama you would need sb like Sarkozy a more hardcore intellectual,european style.

During such populist championships Sarkozy indeed would be better than McCain duo to his natural talent in this direction.
lesser   
10 Jun 2008
News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]

If the very existence of the 'innocent person' (known to most people as a non-sentient clump of cells) is the result of violence, it has no inherent right to use the body of an unwilling adult for its sustenance and birth.

We wont agree because you simply don't recognize the fact that we are discussing about fate of human being. Future debate would be pointless if we continue.

As to coal miners etc. – it is a really bad example. Their special treatment has been a disgrace for Polish justice system for years. “Church people” are indeed not the only one privileged group; it does not make them less privileged.

Almost every strike in this country means occupation of some office or public place. May are ask you whether nurses are disgrace as well?

Funny - could you show me any Episcopal documents calling for Polish troops leaving Iraq?

Let me remind you that Pope is the leader of the RCC and his position regarding each every military conflict is know before such conflict appears. How did you vote last time? Probably on those who supported this war, so blame yourself and people that you elected. It seems that some people replaced "blame the Jew" to "blame the church" scenario. This is the same mentality and similar "arguments".

Dalai Lama was refused a meeting with the Pope after the Tibetian massacre. And calling Dalai Lama, when Tibet under occupation of Chinese communistic regime, a ‘theocratic ruler’ is nothing but funny.

I'm calling him like he is, this is not any offensive call. Obviously you think that under Buddhist theocratic regime life was much easier, this is only your lack of knowledge... BVI already met him and I don't see any reason why Dalai Lama should be allowed to audience every time he wish.

That is your personal opinion and not any objective, scientific truth.

Perhaps, however this opinion is rooted in European civilization.

And that is a popular argument from people opposing legal abortion in Poland: it would supposedly lead to killing babies etc.

Actually this is also possible. Let make it clear, so called 'human right record' of the left and careful observations of political trends lead me to the concussion that sooner or later evolution of their fanaticism will cause us a lot of problems. As far as killing babes is concentrated, I already heard some deviants from the US and the UK (if I recall correctly) advocating such ideas. They say that babies have not formed identify, I have read this pseudo-argument somewhere here.

She was/is under the age of consent. That should make it rape.

Rape is just question of will. Of course law in different countries may state different but politicians love to redefine words.
lesser   
8 Jun 2008
News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]

So women have no right of self-defense or authority over their own bodies?

She have the right to self-defense, she could kill this rapist if possible. She doesn't have the right to violate freedom of innocent person. This is simply libertarian way of thinking.

Shouldn't these people be whiter than white?

Bad apples happens everywhere. But this is nice that you at least admit your intentions. Concept of collective guilt seems to be always alive despite how progressive some individuals consider themselves.
lesser   
8 Jun 2008
News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]

sorry????????? Then what the hell are you posting for then, or are you just looking for an argument ????

You know very well, you intentionally raise such incidents to blame all clergy.

mafketis

You are very wrong.
lesser   
8 Jun 2008
News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]

How on earth can you defend this is beyond belief,

Beyond belief is how can you suggest that I defend such individuals. Also how could you think in categories of collective guilt.
lesser   
8 Jun 2008
News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]

As a meat eater you put the life of an animal as lower tahn that of an unborn baby.

Yes, I don't consider life of the animal to be equal with human life. Although I cannot accept killing of animal for fun. Call me a hypocrite if you want.
lesser   
8 Jun 2008
News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]

It's very interesting that there is no mentioning of the rapist

There is no reason to mention him, he should be severely punished and that is all. However I'm sure that our leftist friends want to be assured that such a deviant wont be punished too badly because it would not help in reclamation process. They will protect his right to spend a time in luxury hotel called "prison". All of this funded from our taxes.

> Not my problem?? What kind of answer is that?

That is an answer of a true Caholic.

Apparently you have a problem with reading, because you distort my post. Or this is just eristic trick? What do you know about quality of life of the unborn? Why do you reserve to yourself the right to kill somebody if you consider his quality of life to be below some mysterious level?

Which by the way shows that such people are above law in Poland

Ordinary people in Poland doing this on regular basis if you are not aware. Coal miners, railway workers or nurses whom not so long ago occupied office of the Polish PM. Please open your eyes.

I will start to believe it when e.g. it will start to protest against Polish troops in Iraq

RCC regularly oppose every each military conflict. On today's mass our parish hosted Polish nun who is working in Bosnia where they solving problems that local politicians and international community left over there.

or when a Pope receives Dalai Lama and protests against Tibetians being murdered by the Chinese.

Dalai Lama hosted in Vatican many times. However this is funny how do you want Pope hosting a theocratic ruler.

Only last year here in Puławy a Priest was convicted of downloading child pornography.

What is your job? We could check some statistics to find out how many people in your profession had such problems. Then we could make some conclusion what would this say about you. Few days ago some other poster suggested that all Germans and Austrians are deviants because of freak like Fritzl and some others. Think about it, why do you think in such categories?

To my best knowledge, and yours as well if you had biology at school, until the 12th week the foetus is not a baby yet.

This a human being and we don't have other choice but respect his freedom. If you don't see a human being then this is your lack of knowledge, deep denial of science. Somehow the left which established different abortion laws in different countries set different times when unborn may be killed. So they cannot agree among themselves. They cannot agree, because they are all wrong. Pure and simple.

CC forbids it even though it is a mature decision of fully formed individual.

You are free to kill yourself and abandon RCC and they cannot stop you. So what is the point? I don't understand why are you so concentrated on what they say. You cannot stand that some people find their teaching valuable?

They say thought can be a dangerous thing. Isn't it heartwarming to know that if you have a life or death problem... people who have never met you have all the answers.

Because this very important issue. Perhaps some people made right conclusion from pastor Niemoller poem "First they came…".
lesser   
8 Jun 2008
News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]

The baby has no formed identity and that counts for a lot.

Because you say so?

Look at those with PVS, they have some identity at least, albeit remote. It can hardly be described as a major loss.

People should be allowed to decide whether they want to be killed or not in such situation before. (and provide financial backing)

Not my problem?? What kind of answer is that?

This is proper answer. Quality of life of mine or some unborn baby is not your problem. Also you could unliterary state that mine quality of life is poor and demand to end this. This is unacceptable.

A very predictable answer.

Also very accurate.

Lesser, i don't think you have ever had an original thought...

A bit too harsh, however you are free to use all kind of your original and non-original thoughts to overthrow my arguments. So far you are unable to do so.

Trust me, these arguements are very well known to me. If i choose to disagree with them, that's my choice.

I'm 100% sure that you don't know church stance, otherwise you would mention this few post before.

priests are citizens of Rzeczpospolita Polska and also have the right to voice their opionions howe silly they may get.

Legally yes, however it would be good if Vatican disciplined them, because they are obligated to pass RCC stances not their personal views. Those whom would refuse to stick to the teaching should be dropped.

Maybe we should return to the times of the apes lesser. How would that be?

Take a remote control in your hand and switch few channels, this world is way closer to the apes than you might think.
lesser   
7 Jun 2008
News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]

The baby has no formed identity.

So what?

What quality of life does an unborn baby have?

Seanus, this is not your problem.

Irrational emotions?

I'm actually very calm, just repeating one would think obvious truths. While you prefer to divide children according to some irrational criteria. Stop being offended, Seanus.

What truth?

About killing unborn babies for example.

No, but it uses their faith to make them resign....twisted eh?

They use arguments unknown for you. People have free choice.

The life belongs to the person, and not the church.

Exactly and since you are unable to proof that a baby wants to be killed, should be born. Of course unless that mother life is under serious threat, this would be an exception.

Giving with one hand, taking with the other really.

Taking what?

And how long do you think the treatment will take?

Neither myself and I suppose you as well are competent to answer such question.

Maybe in the west we are not so blinded by faith.

Once again, this have nothing to do with faith. You may say that you don't have such a respect to human life. On other hand so many of you complain in hysteric way about Muslims overrunning your countries. Guess why? They don't have such problems.

Biologically it will be the same baby. Only psychologically damaged, raised by a mother who does not want it.

First of all if mother doesn't want a child, she would not be forced to keep it. There are plenty of people willing to adopt a child.

There are an estimated 80,000 to 200,000 illegal abortions per year in Poland.

How those propagandists estimate such statistics? If they know about such cases and did not inform police, this is a crime in Poland.

lesser:
Better to be behind the times if that means being correct.

Says a minority of one!!!!

I'm not alone, however even if I would be only very unwise person would search for true with help of democratic voting. This is not an argument.
lesser   
7 Jun 2008
News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]

The Catholic church still is behind in the times on many issues.

Better to be behind the times if that means being correct. The truth doesn't have a share in disasters of its defenders.

But you agree that the church exploits ignorance and spreads disinformation to further its own policies? The condom video mentioned above is a classic example.

I did not see any video and as I have write before the oppose from different reason. You people should know why if you disagree but apparently this is not the case. Also I have no idea why you are so interested why somebody using condoms or not. The church doesn't force anybody to resign from condoms.

What church gain in your opinion on objecting condoms?

You've also given no reason why the church should take such an aggressive astance on abortion.

Very simple, due to respect for a human life. I know many atheists with similar views.

What will the church do to actually help this girl when she finally does have the baby?

Actually the church is engaged (and have long traditions) in many charitable actions, including houses for lonely mothers. Somebody mentioned Africa before. The church working with those people over there, building schools and hospitals while the left which is always do loudly just sending condoms! (brusselsjournal.com/node/3281) Who is obsessed with sex then?

Lesser, please don't tell me that u r denying her the right to abortion.

According the law in this country she may do it. It doesn't mean that I agree with this law which is illogical. However first of all she should visit psychologist. However mass media like GW prefer to use this case in their ideological battles instead search for the best solution.

. Really, as guys we should be making a bigger effort to understand what it'd be like to have an unwanted baby inside u.

First of all as guys should stop stirring hysteria because this seems to be a plague in some western societies. A rape can be considered to be a tragedy but a new life cannot. This is your irrational emotions leading you to such concussions. Biologically

this will be the same baby like many others.
lesser   
7 Jun 2008
News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]

The church object condoms because of different reason thus whether this is effective or not does not matter from their perspective. Brits know nothing about CC but they are the first to lecture them. Why not to read something about the subject before you jump with blind criticism?

I hope and prey that your daughter never gets raped and you are in this situation, because the mindless stupidity that you are portraying is just plain sad.

Perhaps you should back off with this personal attack and provide some arguments to this discussion? I'm ready for an interesting debate on proper level.
lesser   
7 Jun 2008
News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]

If you read the link there it is quite a lot of evidence that states the Catholic church hounded the poor girl, even searching her out in Warsaw after she was refused an abortion in Lublin, due to the priests intervention.

This article is biased, this newspaper advocating abortion on demand from many years. It seems that this girl is under pressure of her mother as well but they failed to notice it. This girl simply need a psychologist.

I will never understand these Neanderthal decisions made by a "so-called" loving organisation as the Catholic church.

I suppose there are many more of things that you don't have ability to understand.

This can be witness time and time again, even to the extent of lying to children in schools saying condoms do not work.

BS