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Posts by Marek  

Joined: 15 Feb 2007 / Male ♂
Last Post: 16 Jun 2009
Threads: Total: 4 / In This Archive: 4
Posts: Total: 867 / In This Archive: 617
From: Nowy Jork
Speaks Polish?: Tak
Interests: rozgrywki, podrozy

Displayed posts: 621 / page 16 of 21
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Marek   
11 Dec 2007
Language / Why do people want to study Polish? [90]

Gosiaczek!

Sorry to be inquisitive, but wouldn't you hope that your English teacher already speaks English and doesn't need to 'learn' it any longer?

Or perhaps I detect a confusion between the verbs 'uczyć się', 'uczyć' and 'nauczyć' in English due to first language (i.e. Polish) interference?
Or perhaps I misunderstood your drift!
Marek   
11 Dec 2007
Language / Why do people want to study Polish? [90]

Hey people!

My main motivation for learning Polish was the sheer presence of Polish-speaking students, immigrants what have you, where I work. While many did in fact speak German and Russian, both a considerable help don't get me wrong, none seemed to connect with English at all.

If I wanted to have even the most basic, let alone meaningful, conversation, I simply needed to learn Polish!

In addition, Polish served as a bridge language to Russian, also immensely practical. I grew up hearing German, therefore Dutch and the Scandinavian languages I could learn with facility through the bridge language of German. Spanish I picked up and later learned through the bridge language(s) of Latin and French.

Make sense?
Marek   
7 Dec 2007
Language / Why do people want to study Polish? [90]

Polson,
Clearly not! I was merely responding to my forum colleague'sremarkconcerning his ability to detect a non-English native Pole speaking/reading in/ English.

I also never stated that this Swedish chap SPOKE English like a British-born native, merely that his pronunciation momentarily made me unaware that he was not a native English speaker, educated in an English environment.

Indeed, catching foreigners 'on the fly', i.e. off guard, as it were, almost invariably lays bare their inevitable weaknesses in the English language!
Marek   
6 Dec 2007
Language / Why do people want to study Polish? [90]

Correct, Gosiaczek!

Poles speak English much as they speak Polish, i.e. deliberately, rarely if ever slurring syllables, in normal standard speech.

"I'm from Poland." with it's reduced and elided vowels comes out as
"Aijj omm frrrawm PoLAND." when spoken by the all but the most
linguistically-adept Polish native speaker.

Michał,

A Pole is not a Swede!!
Marek   
5 Dec 2007
Language / Why do people want to study Polish? [90]

Osiol,

You just hit the nail on the head! English may in fact be the first 'foreign' language throughout the world, i.e. by definition logically NOT the first native or 'mother' tongue. Otherwise, we'd all be English speakers!

Thus, a language such as Polish, French, German, Mandarin Chinese etc. is useful in penetrating what the target language speaker is actually saying in the new global meta-tongue of choice, filtered as the message usually is through the vale of the speaker's language.

A Swede speaks excellent English. Does he/she/ necessarily think in the English idiom? Or, more to the point, is he/she/ probably little more than an unusually skillful mimic, able to artfully imitate a language deceptively close to his own.

This though, technically isn't speaking, it's imitiation! For that matter, when I speak Swedish, surely I can't speak it or any language "better" or more naturallly than my first language. The difference is I don't pretend it's not important for a foreigner in my country to use my language. Abroad, you often hear "Oh, please! We all speak English! Don't try to struggle....."

Some things in life are worth the struggle. One of them is understanding.
Marek   
5 Dec 2007
Language / Why do people want to study Polish? [90]

....this is not to say that all Swedes speak as Persson or Hans Blix, the former weapons' inspector for the UN in Iraq!

Certain actors, Rutger Hauer from the Netherlands and mannnny years in the US along with Max von Sydow the Swedish star, speak English basically indistinguishable from an educated native speaker of English. (The Flemish-speaking Belgian Van Dam though, is an exception! His accent can be cut with a knife....with a blunt blade :)LOL)

When I was in Sweden, although a speaker of the language, a number of people, learning I'm American, immediately switched to English. Only after dissuading them gently in Swedish, did they finally desist and return to speaking their native language.

That was way back in 1984.

Slick,

About the broadcasting units in English you're correct. I'm not sure however if the announcers are Brits or Swedes!
Marek   
5 Dec 2007
Language / Why do people want to study Polish? [90]

Polson,

Agree absolutely! As somebody with a German tongue, Polish was a conundrum of verbal tongue twisters and death-defying consonant clusters.

A lot of our preconceptions however about what is acceptable pronunciation have much to do with the context in which we hear these heavily- accented speakers.

To my mind, the nationality with the toughest time attaining basic, let alone high-level, fluency in English, are the Spanish (by which I naturally include all Hispanic speakers too).

In Spain, as in Poland, I ONLY spoke the language of the country! Yet, when some younger Poles attempted to speak a few sentences in English, it was almost comprehensible. In Spain or Mexico? I often didn't know one word of what was being said in English, having to restrain myself from laughing!!:

Du ju know uuat minss '****'? = Do you know what 'peace' means?

And there were numerous other examples. At least in Polish, EVERY consonant, and most vowels, have the same equivalent to English ones, cf. Spanish 'b'/'v' (Basco or Vasco etc.), 'ee'/'i' (peace or **** etc.)......

Slick's right.

Similar in fact to the US, most Poles of any age have yet to witness one of their own leaders, the face of Poland to the rest of the world, from Gomułka though Gierek, Beirut, up through premiers and presidents Wałęsa, Kwaśniewski or the Kaczyński twins, who speaks fluent or even passable English in public.

Compare them with Germany's chancellor Schmidt, fluent in French and German, the present Angela Merkel, English and Russian etc.

When I heard Goran Persson of Sweden several years ago, I could have sworn I was listening to a British Member of Parliament! When I finally realized it was Persson, I was truly speechless.
Marek   
5 Dec 2007
Language / Why do people want to study Polish? [90]

You're surely correct, Polson, that times have indeed changed, owing much to globalization I'm sure, since my last visit to Poland.

Again though, even if most Eastern European staters are learning English with a vengeance, in order to keep pace, so to speak, with the French, the Germans, Dutch and certainly the Nordic countries, the level of the Pole's English remains often wanting in fluency, frequently exhibiting extremes in bold vocabulary knowledge paired with faulty grammar and an atrocious accent.

Many non-native English speakers battle for years to reduce their foreign accent(s) in English. The present-day Poles must also do the same!
Marek   
5 Dec 2007
Language / Why do people want to study Polish? [90]

Polson,

......Aye, here's the rub!! Unlike the Spanish, for instance, the French, at least the Parisians, in fact DO speak and understand English....they simply choose not to out of linguistic stubbornness and historical pride (After all, was it not Voltaire who once quipped as to why he never bothered learning English to visit Lord Chesterton, "But my dear, what is English anyway, but French spoken badly?" - and that's how it all started!)

The case of Poland in my own experience is rather that, like Spain, the average citizen never had to learn English, (forgetting momentarily learning German and Russian under the Communists) and so remained at a disadvantage when traveling or emigrating abroad.

When Iwas last in Poland during the mid-90's, not a soul spoke or understood English or German (in Szczecin/Stettin where I was staying). Older people understood a little of the latter, but I was reliant exclusively on my still fairly fluent Polish. Our customs' officer for instance spoke only Polish and it was a good thing I could understand his rapid-fire questions!
Marek   
5 Dec 2007
Language / Why do people want to study Polish? [90]

As one of the largest countries inside Europe, third only to France and Spain, having more physical mass, if not population worldwide than even neigboring Germany, Poland is a nation to contend with....it is also a member of the EU!

Similar to Spain, it has a large number of inhabitants who do not speak other languages fluently or even at all, certainly not English on the level of, say, most Scandinavians.

It is therefore, in my mind, a language worthy of study, if for no other reason, than in order to dispel the myth of Polish as a frightfully unpronouncable language spoken by a stupid, technologically backward people.

Polish is/was/ the mother tongue of Adam Mickiewicz, Juliusz Słowiacki, Joseph Conrad, Frederic Chopin as well as countless other noble benefactors to world civilzation and culture.

In addition, if lastly, Polish is simply a beautiful language!!
Marek   
27 Nov 2007
Language / Example differences between Polish and English [30]

Hi, all!!!

Collocations in one language rarely dovetail or match idiomatic equivalents in another, even in somewhat closely related languages such as English and German. Sure, they're a heck of a lot more similar than English/Polish, not to mention non-Indo-European tongues. Nonethless, some of the examples I've seen here so far just go to illustrate what we're saying, e.g. "to give someone a call" = (z)dwońic do, not: dać (dawać) telefon etc.

In German, you can't "throw someone a party" or "give someone a phone call" without sounding quite daft indeed!

Moral of the story: No language can literally translate its own idioms into another.
Marek   
26 Nov 2007
Study / Staying with a Polish Family in Krakow to Learn English [6]

Witaj, Tim!!

I think your experience sounds awesome. In addition, you're lucky to be settled in Kraków, as the Jagiełłoń University there has a special 'Język Polski dla Cudodziemców' programme (Polish for Foreigners) and you'd therefore be in an ideal position to take courses at that university. Best though to book in the UK. Booking directly at the school itself might be a tedious exercise in bureaucracy instead of a lovely intro. to a fascinating country and culture.

Powodzenia a wszystkiego najlepeszego! (Good luck and all the best!)

Cheers,
Marek   
21 Nov 2007
Polonia / Looking for Polish Protestant churches outside Poland [12]

Dzięki, Lukasz!

Naturalnie są Protestanci w Polsce, ale nie jest wiarą ofycialną. We Węgrzech nie jest samo, bo 'Reformatus Egyhaz' jest drugim kościołem narodowym w tym kraju.

Ale znowu dziękuję za objaśienia.
Marek   
20 Nov 2007
Polonia / Looking for Polish Protestant churches outside Poland [12]

Greetings, Jerry!

The last time I checked, Poland's 99.9% Roman Catholic (aside from some splinter groups or sects, plus of course a handfull of, i.e. less than one thousand, Jewish stragglers in and around the capitol)!

Never yet run into a Polish Protestant, here, there, anywhere.

Good luck (Powodzenia)!
Marek
Marek   
20 Nov 2007
Language / Jestem ze Szczecina or Szczecinia? [15]

Dziękuję Panu Dariuszu!!!

Tak, tak. To było pomyłka, co napisałem a jestem wdzięczny za poprawienia.
Marek   
14 Nov 2007
Polonia / Polonia in scandinavian countries [23]

Rubin,

When I was first in Denmark as a young Danish student, I encountered a number of Russian arrivals, but no Poles. Many of the former though didn't even speak a word of Danish, which I found a shame. I suppose, since globalization was just starting back then, they figured they could get by in English. --::)) And that was already 1989!!!

Marek
Marek   
6 Nov 2007
Polonia / Polish-German Language Exchnage! [10]

Thanks, Hueg.

I guess I'm looking for someone who is ideally a Polish native speaker with a real fluency in German (or vice-versa, a German-Polish bilinguist, i.e. someone like myself who is German-English!)

I just find it easier working in Polish into German than into English. Suppose I'm more used to it, that's all.

Appreciated the reply though!
Marek   
6 Nov 2007
Polonia / Polish-German Language Exchnage! [10]

Good morning!

As per administrator rules, I am posting clearly in English. Although a fluent speaker of Polish, I find I still need considerable review and therefore would appreciate the kind assistance of another German native speaker who can answer "mother-tongue" questions which I have, i.e. translation based on language interference.

Below the following sentences which I've translated into German. Could someone here at PF please check them for accuracy? If not, might I be referred to a specifically Polish-German forum which can?

Much appreciated in advance!

BRAK MI SLOW! = Es verschlug mir die Sprache!

BRAK MI SNU! = Ich brauche (mehr) Schlaf!

BRAK MI CZASU! = Ich habe keine Zeit!

Thanks so much,
Marek   
1 Nov 2007
Language / I know Russian language - will it help me learn Polish? [105]

Moonmustang,

Gender confusions are only half the problem. The real difficulty comes when actual words have completely different or even slightly different meanings from one language to the other, e.g. "pismo" in Russian = letter, in Polish "pismo" = a written work or opus. The everyday Polish word for "letter" is of course "list", which is not used in Russian! In addition, the accent or stress is not the same, cf. Russian "pisMO" vs. Polish "PISmo".

Just one of numerous examples!!
Marek   
27 Oct 2007
News / What sort of fellow is this Donald Tusk anyway? [34]

Odd name his, "Donald Tusk". Is he all Polish, or did his presumably modish parents want him to have a non-Polish first name? "Tusk" sounds almost Cashubian!
Marek   
24 Oct 2007
News / What sort of fellow is this Donald Tusk anyway? [34]

Hello, fellow forum members! (Witajcie, drogich forumniczow!)

Who do you think will be the one to succeed the Brothers Kaczynski?? I'm not clear who Donald Tusk really is, or what he stands for.
Marek   
15 Oct 2007
Language / The word KOLEGA [11]

"Kolega" is a masculine animate noun in Polish with a feminine "a" ending, which takes irregular article declensional endings; feminine noun endings, masculine adjective endings, e.g. "Widze tego innego kolegi." = I see that other colleague/co-worker/friend from work etc. It can be a little complicated in the beginning, so I'll spare you the whole dog and pony show here.

"Kolezanka" is female colleague, declined as all feminine nouns of that class, e.g. ksiazka, matka, siatka etc..

Marek
Marek   
14 Oct 2007
Language / Accusative and Genitive Case in Polish [6]

In English too, a "corpse" was once living, yet is still considered an organism, by definition, having at one time been animate, i.e. having an "anima" or "soul". The Germans term the Polish concept of "animate" vs. "inanimate" BESEELT and UNBESEELT nouns, from "Seele", the German word for "soul"!

Marek
Marek   
13 Oct 2007
Language / Accusative and Genitive Case in Polish [6]

If you want to have, see, know etc. a NON-LIVING, i.e INANIMATE masculine male noun, then the accusative endings are used, e.g. "Widze nowy czarny stól." = I see the new black table vs. "Widze mojego nowego madrego psa." = I see my clever new dog, (ANIMATE LIVING masculine noun) whereby in the latter instance, the genitive case endings are used, since a dog of course is living, a table isn't!

Make sense?
Marek
Marek   
12 Oct 2007
Language / I know Russian language - will it help me learn Polish? [105]

Michal,

Quote: "You can buy all the great books and masterpieces written in English anyway."

Italian proverb - TRADUTORE, TRADITORE (translator, traitor)

Marek

*At very best, a translation is a mere approximation of the given text, something of which non-speakers of the author's native tongue are usually only painfully aware!! It's always a double-edged sword. I say this too as a translator myself.