shopgirl
26 Feb 2008
News / US military... how does poland feel about the US military? [70]
You mean like in "We the people..."? :)
it's says 'people' in the constitution not citizens.
You mean like in "We the people..."? :)
shopgirl
13 Feb 2008
USA, Canada / The 2nd Amendment (USA), the right to own guns [261]
ohmygod that was so funny!
But if we can have guns, what's wrong with a small, say purse-sized nuke? Just in case I'm accosted in a dark parking lot.... :P
PS. Just for the record, I grew up in a house full of hunting guns, bows & arrows, and Dad even had some funky thing where you had to pour the gunpowder down the barrel..tamp it down...add the shot...etc. and then shoot it (smelled awful and kicked like a mule!)....I even helped make shells as a child....BUT I DON'T LIKE GUNS. But actually, I think a flamethrower or bazooka would be fun to have! ;)
Can I have nukes?
ohmygod that was so funny!
But if we can have guns, what's wrong with a small, say purse-sized nuke? Just in case I'm accosted in a dark parking lot.... :P
PS. Just for the record, I grew up in a house full of hunting guns, bows & arrows, and Dad even had some funky thing where you had to pour the gunpowder down the barrel..tamp it down...add the shot...etc. and then shoot it (smelled awful and kicked like a mule!)....I even helped make shells as a child....BUT I DON'T LIKE GUNS. But actually, I think a flamethrower or bazooka would be fun to have! ;)
shopgirl
13 Feb 2008
USA, Canada / 2008 U.S. Presidential Election according to Polish and foreign people [90]
I couldn't agree with you more on this one. That whole scandal was pointless and a complete waste of time. I would clarify a difference though....I'm not sure the Monika/Clinton thing was an indication of American priorities per se....more likely an issue of dirt that the opposite party could exploit to their advantage, and a scandal for the media to tout. After the first day, I was sick of hearing about it.
$40 mil wasted investigating someone's sexual pleasures, while only $600K on 9/11 Commission. Go figure. Americans and their priorities.
I couldn't agree with you more on this one. That whole scandal was pointless and a complete waste of time. I would clarify a difference though....I'm not sure the Monika/Clinton thing was an indication of American priorities per se....more likely an issue of dirt that the opposite party could exploit to their advantage, and a scandal for the media to tout. After the first day, I was sick of hearing about it.
shopgirl
10 Feb 2008
Genealogy / For all you blue-eyed Poles [64]
This is why:
Eye color is a physical trait that is determined by the pairing of genes from both parents. It used to be thought that a single gene pair following dominant and recessive inheritance patterns was responsible for this trait. Now it is known to be much more complex, involving at least three gene pairs. Geneticists have focused on two of the three gene pairs to help clarify the inheritance of eye color: EYCL1 (the gey gene) and EYCL3 (the bey2 gene).
Genes come in different forms, called alleles. The gey gene has two alleles, green and blue; the bey2 gene has two alleles, brown and blue. The brown allele is always dominant over the green and blue alleles, the green allele is always dominant over the blue allele, and the blue allele is always recessive.
It is possible for two brown-eyed parents to have a child with a different eye color than theirs. For two brown-eyed parents to have a blue-eyed child, for example, the mother and father would need to pass on a pair of blue alleles each to their offspring. If this child were to get one green allele in this mix instead, s/he would have green eyes; however, if a brown allele is present, regardless of what the other three alleles are, the child would have brown eyes.
So melon kitty, one or both of your parents carry the brown allele (I'm guessing) which is dominant over green or blue.
I have brown eyes....which pisses me off because both my parents and their parents and relatives all have blue or hazel eyes...wtf.
This is why:
Eye color is a physical trait that is determined by the pairing of genes from both parents. It used to be thought that a single gene pair following dominant and recessive inheritance patterns was responsible for this trait. Now it is known to be much more complex, involving at least three gene pairs. Geneticists have focused on two of the three gene pairs to help clarify the inheritance of eye color: EYCL1 (the gey gene) and EYCL3 (the bey2 gene).
Genes come in different forms, called alleles. The gey gene has two alleles, green and blue; the bey2 gene has two alleles, brown and blue. The brown allele is always dominant over the green and blue alleles, the green allele is always dominant over the blue allele, and the blue allele is always recessive.
It is possible for two brown-eyed parents to have a child with a different eye color than theirs. For two brown-eyed parents to have a blue-eyed child, for example, the mother and father would need to pass on a pair of blue alleles each to their offspring. If this child were to get one green allele in this mix instead, s/he would have green eyes; however, if a brown allele is present, regardless of what the other three alleles are, the child would have brown eyes.
So melon kitty, one or both of your parents carry the brown allele (I'm guessing) which is dominant over green or blue.
shopgirl
7 Feb 2008
News / Polish-German Relations in the Present [697]
I like this quote and I believe in it.
Margaret Mead
Never doubt that a small group of committed individuals can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Whether committed people choose to focus on positive change or negative change, I have seen in my own experience that small groups work better. They communicate better and organize better. Large groups are hard to control...
I have been reading a book by British historian Giles MacDonogh that was published 2007, called "After the Reich". I ran across an interesting bit of info in the preface and wanted to share it.
"It is true that some of the old men and a lot of the women hat voted for Hitler, but it should be recalled once again that he never acheived more than 37.4% of the vote in a free election, and in the last one he was down to 33.1%. That meant that, even at his most popular, 62.6 %of the German electorate were unmoved by his programme".
He goes on to say that Hilter's campaign did not openly propose slaughter of European Jews, or the desire to confront Russia, or to enslave the Slavs.
Even with only veiled allusions to his dark desires in his speeches, best spotted in hindsight, Hilter was not a favored leader.
He says that to make all Germans responsible (women old men, children and new born babies) is using the Allied weapon of collective guilt. Collective guilt applied by the Allies deprived Germans of their rights, and kept them at the mercy of the Allies until they could figure out what to do with them. He speaks about the children and accountability...there were boys as young as twelve in the Hiltler Youth. At what age should a child be punished as an adult, as responsible for his actions?
Just wanted to share some of the ideas that I have been contemplating.
I like this quote too...
Victor Frankl
We who lived in concentration camps can remember the men who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of human freedoms - to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances - to choose one's own way.
Sure, some were in disagreement, but I can;t imagine that only a small group of Germans was all it took to support the biggest slaugher in human history.
I like this quote and I believe in it.
Margaret Mead
Never doubt that a small group of committed individuals can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Whether committed people choose to focus on positive change or negative change, I have seen in my own experience that small groups work better. They communicate better and organize better. Large groups are hard to control...
I have been reading a book by British historian Giles MacDonogh that was published 2007, called "After the Reich". I ran across an interesting bit of info in the preface and wanted to share it.
"It is true that some of the old men and a lot of the women hat voted for Hitler, but it should be recalled once again that he never acheived more than 37.4% of the vote in a free election, and in the last one he was down to 33.1%. That meant that, even at his most popular, 62.6 %of the German electorate were unmoved by his programme".
He goes on to say that Hilter's campaign did not openly propose slaughter of European Jews, or the desire to confront Russia, or to enslave the Slavs.
Even with only veiled allusions to his dark desires in his speeches, best spotted in hindsight, Hilter was not a favored leader.
He says that to make all Germans responsible (women old men, children and new born babies) is using the Allied weapon of collective guilt. Collective guilt applied by the Allies deprived Germans of their rights, and kept them at the mercy of the Allies until they could figure out what to do with them. He speaks about the children and accountability...there were boys as young as twelve in the Hiltler Youth. At what age should a child be punished as an adult, as responsible for his actions?
Just wanted to share some of the ideas that I have been contemplating.
I like this quote too...
Victor Frankl
We who lived in concentration camps can remember the men who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of human freedoms - to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances - to choose one's own way.
shopgirl
23 Dec 2007
History / Should Germany claim to be the victims in Poland? [510]
Is that true? Why? I always wondered why Stalin wasn't vilified in the manner which I think he should have been! He was an evil, vicious monster...an equal opportunity murderer!
isthatu wrote:
Whats more of a shame is that the Soviet butchers were never put on trial.
You know what.Because you signed the law that members of the allied forces cannot be prosecuted for war crimes.
Whats more of a shame is that the Soviet butchers were never put on trial.
You know what.Because you signed the law that members of the allied forces cannot be prosecuted for war crimes.
Is that true? Why? I always wondered why Stalin wasn't vilified in the manner which I think he should have been! He was an evil, vicious monster...an equal opportunity murderer!
shopgirl
20 Dec 2007
USA, Canada / Health care, USA is messed up what about your country? [33]
My company has that! (United Healthcare)
But it seems that we continue, each year, to get less coverage at a higer cost, no matter what provider or plan you use. :(
I'm also in the USA :) United Healthcare.
Your employer provides some crappy insurance...sorry :/
Your employer provides some crappy insurance...sorry :/
My company has that! (United Healthcare)
But it seems that we continue, each year, to get less coverage at a higer cost, no matter what provider or plan you use. :(
shopgirl
18 Dec 2007
News / Weak US dollar in Poland and other countries... [180]
Even if there weren't any carcinogens found from NATO weapons, plenty of PCB's and other poisons were released from the effects of bombing the oil refinery and other industries.
That doesn't go away for a long time.....very sad, especially for the children growing up in Novi Sad. :(
Even if there weren't any carcinogens found from NATO weapons, plenty of PCB's and other poisons were released from the effects of bombing the oil refinery and other industries.
That doesn't go away for a long time.....very sad, especially for the children growing up in Novi Sad. :(
shopgirl
16 Dec 2007
News / Weak US dollar in Poland and other countries... [180]
Honestly, Southern...I don't know why we keep sending troops. Congress and Bush cannot agree on budget for the war. Bush says give me at least this much or I will veto the proposal.....so it goes back and forth.
Whoever is suppling the troops.....it is not enough to support the whole economy. Things are different now.....the economy is big.
Honestly, Southern...I don't know why we keep sending troops. Congress and Bush cannot agree on budget for the war. Bush says give me at least this much or I will veto the proposal.....so it goes back and forth.
Whoever is suppling the troops.....it is not enough to support the whole economy. Things are different now.....the economy is big.
shopgirl
16 Dec 2007
News / Weak US dollar in Poland and other countries... [180]
You must be kidding! War costs! To everyone.....in many ways!
The current war has already run up a huge debt. And there are two kinds of debt: the current cost of supplies, weapons, people, etc....and then there is the cost of taking care of all the vets who come home in pieces, who will need assistance for the rest of their lives.
And who can put a price on the lives lost and the suffering for everyone involved?
There are other ways to affect change...peaceful ways.
How to beat recession? Just beat in DRUMS OF WAR and give another war to the world and new cycle of economic boom to America. And, yes then BLA BLA about American mission in the world, multiculturalism and democracy under THEIR rule...
You must be kidding! War costs! To everyone.....in many ways!
The current war has already run up a huge debt. And there are two kinds of debt: the current cost of supplies, weapons, people, etc....and then there is the cost of taking care of all the vets who come home in pieces, who will need assistance for the rest of their lives.
And who can put a price on the lives lost and the suffering for everyone involved?
There are other ways to affect change...peaceful ways.
shopgirl
15 Dec 2007
News / Polish-German Relations in the Present [697]
That is a gross oversimplification of history and fact. It takes a lot of work and effort to look more closely at a situation...more than most people are willing to do. There is always more to the story than is seen on the surface, and with the amount of information available from a wide variety of sources on this very well documented subject it is not hard to find.
How easy it is to just say pfff and toss out another stereotype.
But it happens all the time....
pfff they have choosen Hitler in elections and were very happy to be superior race ...
That is a gross oversimplification of history and fact. It takes a lot of work and effort to look more closely at a situation...more than most people are willing to do. There is always more to the story than is seen on the surface, and with the amount of information available from a wide variety of sources on this very well documented subject it is not hard to find.
How easy it is to just say pfff and toss out another stereotype.
But it happens all the time....
shopgirl
15 Dec 2007
News / Polish-German Relations in the Present [697]
In saying this you somehow seem to know the personal beliefs and their allegiances of every parent who "got what they deserved". How are you able to do that? Sorry....I 'm not so confident as you.
The only true German vistims were small kids. The parents got what they desrved, and thus they are, in my mind, ultimately responsible fot the suffering of their own offspring.
In saying this you somehow seem to know the personal beliefs and their allegiances of every parent who "got what they deserved". How are you able to do that? Sorry....I 'm not so confident as you.
shopgirl
15 Dec 2007
News / Polish-German Relations in the Present [697]
I don't think that is at all what we are comparing AT ALL......please go to Wildrover's comment in the other thread about the Center for displacement proposal in Berlin.
I'm talking about families (mostly women and children) that had to flee because they were on the wrong side of a border (any border) when their governments went to war. I can absolutely relate to the idea of having your life torn apart about by governments that don't really care about their people.
But if it helps you to only see countries in terms of their military...that's your choice!
I don't think that is at all what we are comparing AT ALL......please go to Wildrover's comment in the other thread about the Center for displacement proposal in Berlin.
I'm talking about families (mostly women and children) that had to flee because they were on the wrong side of a border (any border) when their governments went to war. I can absolutely relate to the idea of having your life torn apart about by governments that don't really care about their people.
But if it helps you to only see countries in terms of their military...that's your choice!
shopgirl
15 Dec 2007
News / Polish-German Relations in the Present [697]
Have you followed all the uproar after his victory at the polls a couple of weeks ago?
(Very few governments think that the Russia election was free and open and have suggested inquiries into the process...but really, who will force the issue)
And there was also the news article about the Russian chess player who was thrown into jail for speaking out against Putin (he had been at it for a while).
Things are very different for us in this part of the world. We rarely know the reality of what life is really like in other countries. I have even heard people say this about parts of Poland (that you need to be careful of what you say about government) but I don't know how much truth there is to it.
Quoting: shopgirl
Putin doesn't care for his own people,
Then why do they keep him in power?
Carol
Putin doesn't care for his own people,
Then why do they keep him in power?
Carol
Have you followed all the uproar after his victory at the polls a couple of weeks ago?
(Very few governments think that the Russia election was free and open and have suggested inquiries into the process...but really, who will force the issue)
And there was also the news article about the Russian chess player who was thrown into jail for speaking out against Putin (he had been at it for a while).
Things are very different for us in this part of the world. We rarely know the reality of what life is really like in other countries. I have even heard people say this about parts of Poland (that you need to be careful of what you say about government) but I don't know how much truth there is to it.
shopgirl
15 Dec 2007
News / Polish-German Relations in the Present [697]
I think it is not a matter of "how" victimized people were. The center info you provided doesn't say anything that I can see proclaiming the quantity or quality of suffering against another group. That would be absurd. How can anyone say that one person's suffering is more or less meaningful than another person' suffering? Why would anyone want to do that? There should be be sanctity and respect for losses sustained to people everywhere....as this center proposes, rather than making it a contest.
I tell you this, I would not dare tell an Iraqi mother that the loss of her son was less than the loss of an American woman's son! I would not deny her a memorial to her son. We are all humans.
I can see where accepting accountability would help families of victims get closure, but if it is not forthcoming, you have to help yourself. You can forgive without forgetting. Forgiveness in my definition, means letting go of the anger and pain, so that it does not eat you up inside. It does not mean that you give your approval to what happened, nor that you have to forget it.
In my opinion, Putin doesn't care for his own people, much less for something that happened on Stalin's watch. Lets not forget when the Kursk submarine sank with all the loss of life, Putin was on vacation, and couldn't be bothered to put in an appearance. Carol, don't hold your breath waiting for apologies from others. You can find healing in spite of that! I hope that you find peace. :)
Germany setting up a display of how victimized they were.... Please, think of the cost Poland paid in lives.
I think it is not a matter of "how" victimized people were. The center info you provided doesn't say anything that I can see proclaiming the quantity or quality of suffering against another group. That would be absurd. How can anyone say that one person's suffering is more or less meaningful than another person' suffering? Why would anyone want to do that? There should be be sanctity and respect for losses sustained to people everywhere....as this center proposes, rather than making it a contest.
I tell you this, I would not dare tell an Iraqi mother that the loss of her son was less than the loss of an American woman's son! I would not deny her a memorial to her son. We are all humans.
It's not just Germany, lets look at Ukraine, 1932-33 lives all of a sudden means something, yet what about accountablity for the ones they took.
I can see where accepting accountability would help families of victims get closure, but if it is not forthcoming, you have to help yourself. You can forgive without forgetting. Forgiveness in my definition, means letting go of the anger and pain, so that it does not eat you up inside. It does not mean that you give your approval to what happened, nor that you have to forget it.
Putin could have done some damage control and showed the world he has a human heart by showing up at "Katyn" ceremony. Pres. Putin never did come and show respect for our dead men.
In my opinion, Putin doesn't care for his own people, much less for something that happened on Stalin's watch. Lets not forget when the Kursk submarine sank with all the loss of life, Putin was on vacation, and couldn't be bothered to put in an appearance. Carol, don't hold your breath waiting for apologies from others. You can find healing in spite of that! I hope that you find peace. :)
shopgirl
14 Dec 2007
News / Polish-German Relations in the Present [697]
I think some people do that because they feel that if they don't pay homage to the past, it will be forgotten and then repeated.
But that's different than wallowing in pain and agony and refusing to let go.
What I'm trying to say is that there is a difference between remembering the past and getting stuck in reliving it.
I think some people do that because they feel that if they don't pay homage to the past, it will be forgotten and then repeated.
But that's different than wallowing in pain and agony and refusing to let go.
What I'm trying to say is that there is a difference between remembering the past and getting stuck in reliving it.
shopgirl
14 Dec 2007
History / Should Germany claim to be the victims in Poland? [510]
Isn't there still an area west of Gdansk that today has a large number of Germanic people living there?
So...Danzig was a polish town? Full with Poles???
only in part of our history it was called Danzig, originaly name is Gdańsk and now it is Gdańsk again ...
Isn't there still an area west of Gdansk that today has a large number of Germanic people living there?
shopgirl
14 Dec 2007
History / Should Germany claim to be the victims in Poland? [510]
Excuse me for asking, but doesn't this museum recognize displacement of other peoples in Europe as well, or is that just besides the point?
Even before it opened its doors, the exhibition "Forced Paths" attracted a lot of controversy in the German and Polish media.
Excuse me for asking, but doesn't this museum recognize displacement of other peoples in Europe as well, or is that just besides the point?
shopgirl
14 Dec 2007
History / Should Germany claim to be the victims in Poland? [510]
That's funny! Life always comes down to football, huh?
No you aren't insane.....our quick mods spirit anything off topic to the random chat thread....get used to it!
And it is a loveable, nutty, dysfunctional, happy family here at PF!
In the end we all win - you get Podolski and Klose - we get Gdansk.
Am I going insane or are my posts randomly disappearing.
This place is nuts - but I love it.
Am I going insane or are my posts randomly disappearing.
This place is nuts - but I love it.
That's funny! Life always comes down to football, huh?
No you aren't insane.....our quick mods spirit anything off topic to the random chat thread....get used to it!
And it is a loveable, nutty, dysfunctional, happy family here at PF!
shopgirl
14 Dec 2007
News / Polish-German Relations in the Present [697]
So Puzzly......what do you think of Mister Tusk? Will he improve Poland's relationship with Germany and other EU countries?
So Puzzly......what do you think of Mister Tusk? Will he improve Poland's relationship with Germany and other EU countries?
shopgirl
14 Dec 2007
News / Polish-German Relations in the Present [697]
Hmmm...I was thinking about the time you freaked out when that little girl was accidentlally shot after a brawl in...was it Italy? You absolutely came unglued about that, saying it was just an attack on Poles.
Hmmm...I was thinking about the time you freaked out when that little girl was accidentlally shot after a brawl in...was it Italy? You absolutely came unglued about that, saying it was just an attack on Poles.
shopgirl
14 Dec 2007
News / Polish-German Relations in the Present [697]
Everyone could try living in the present! Past is done, future hasn't happened......you know the drill.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Learn from the past,but don't wallow in it. :)
Everyone could try living in the present! Past is done, future hasn't happened......you know the drill.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Learn from the past,but don't wallow in it. :)
shopgirl
14 Dec 2007
News / Polish-German Relations in the Present [697]
I'm not trying to glorify anything.....but in general people can be very outspoken here in the US, even if they have extreme, unbalanced viewpoints, and no one rushes to "put them in a corner". Unless they are in the public media, such as radio announcers....then they do catch some heat! When this happens it always causes a big argument about freedom of speech versus defamation and slander. From Wiki: In the United States, government is broadly forbidden by the First Amendment of the Constitution from restricting speech. Jurists generally understand this to mean that the government cannot regulate the content of speech, but that it can address the harmful effects of speech through laws such as those against defamation or incitement to riot.
I believe there is good and bad in all people, regardless of race, creed, etc. I think that my personal beliefs do not reflect, nor or represented by the US governments policies or actions. I was trying to say that as an American looking "in" at Polish-German relations from the ouside, maybe I can see some things that Poles and Germans don't see so easily, because of their strong, intense emotional involvement. When strong emotions prevail, often objective reasoning gets drowned out a bit. We usually think clearer with cool heads.
No southern, I had not read that. It sounds typical of warfare though. :(
I saw this too....I understand that the world cup was a bit of a revelation for Germans because it did provide a reason to be proud as a nation, rather than be ashamed, of their homeland for the first time in a very big way. That should help to move people forward.
Hmmm....I can put myself in many different shoes, and see things from another's perspective. I am appreciative of that ability....it has taught me a lot. When and where do I see the action of the "victim role". Well, in comments and attitudes by some members here on this forum. And even in you, Puzzly. At times you are very convinced that people hate Poles, even when they don't! :)
Quoting: shopgirl
(we can and do say say pretty much anything, idiot or not!)
i bellieve you glorify slightly in saying this but that would be again material for another thread...
(we can and do say say pretty much anything, idiot or not!)
i bellieve you glorify slightly in saying this but that would be again material for another thread...
I'm not trying to glorify anything.....but in general people can be very outspoken here in the US, even if they have extreme, unbalanced viewpoints, and no one rushes to "put them in a corner". Unless they are in the public media, such as radio announcers....then they do catch some heat! When this happens it always causes a big argument about freedom of speech versus defamation and slander. From Wiki: In the United States, government is broadly forbidden by the First Amendment of the Constitution from restricting speech. Jurists generally understand this to mean that the government cannot regulate the content of speech, but that it can address the harmful effects of speech through laws such as those against defamation or incitement to riot.
Do you unconsciously prefer to hold such a view because you are American and the view conveniently justifies the conduct of the United States towards many nations, such as Native Indians, Vietnamese, Latin Americans, Iraqis?
I believe there is good and bad in all people, regardless of race, creed, etc. I think that my personal beliefs do not reflect, nor or represented by the US governments policies or actions. I was trying to say that as an American looking "in" at Polish-German relations from the ouside, maybe I can see some things that Poles and Germans don't see so easily, because of their strong, intense emotional involvement. When strong emotions prevail, often objective reasoning gets drowned out a bit. We usually think clearer with cool heads.
Have you read Rokosovsky's orders to the red army?''Comrades you should realize that there are no good Germans.The only good German is the dead German.Kill,kill,glorious soldiers of the red army.Do not respect the pride of german women.Make them remember you with terror for the next hundred years''
No southern, I had not read that. It sounds typical of warfare though. :(
which is a good thing, isn't it? a HEALTHY identification with your heritage should be normal. remember the world cup last year in germany? i wasn't there but for the first time since ages german flags were waved like that without being a threat. i believe the germans were good hosts... now we should build on that...
I saw this too....I understand that the world cup was a bit of a revelation for Germans because it did provide a reason to be proud as a nation, rather than be ashamed, of their homeland for the first time in a very big way. That should help to move people forward.
- It seems you're putting yourself in the wrong shoes. Where and when are we really 'acting out '(sic) 'the victim role'? It's just a stereotype that we do.
Hmmm....I can put myself in many different shoes, and see things from another's perspective. I am appreciative of that ability....it has taught me a lot. When and where do I see the action of the "victim role". Well, in comments and attitudes by some members here on this forum. And even in you, Puzzly. At times you are very convinced that people hate Poles, even when they don't! :)
shopgirl
13 Dec 2007
News / Polish-German Relations in the Present [697]
I have been reading up/studying a little about this aspect of German culture over the summer, and what you said here is in alignment with what I have learned. I was very surprised to learn how guarded many German's are today in regard to expressing themselves politically because of the strict taboos resulting from the negative consequences of historical nationalism. As an American, I came to realize that the freedom of speech that I take for granted (we can and do say say pretty much anything, idiot or not!) is a rare commodity in many parts of the world.
Next, I was shocked at how "fresh" the fallout from WWII is (I especially got that sense from this forum). Then I started to ask myself questions, like "Where is this coming from? The grandparents? The young adults of today?". It seemed to me that it (unresolved anger, fear and frustration between Poland and Germany, et al) was getting passed down to young people from older family members, with help from the media.
Then I wondered, if I were a 20 something in Germany today, how would I react to all the restrictions, imposed guilt, overwhelming pressure to be so politically correct all the time? I have to say (as a very free Ammie of course) I'd be fed up! I had nothing to do with what that generation did! Why do I have to tip toe around on eggshells? To hell with this! This is MY life and I will live it my way. (Of course this would get me in a LOT of trouble in Germany). So what would happen? How would I rebel? How could I be an individual and have a voice, when conformity is demanded? I think I would burst at the seams. There is too much independent rebel in me.....I would probably do something counter to the culture just to be heard, even if I didn't really agree with the cause! I think I would have a kind of anger in me, looking for a way out.
Does that make sense? Is that any different than a generation of young people struggling to assert themselves by letting their hair grow and following the Beatles? (another generation, I know...but you get the idea?
My bottom line is this: I would rather see people speaking freely and "getting it out of their system" than keeping it bottled up (a pressure cooker eventually blows). I see that what comes out is a bit ugly sometimes, especially when one side does not try to see the other side's view OR tries to trump each other out of ego. *sighs*
I can put myself into Polish shoes as well. There is a lot of pain, agony, and suffering there. But acting out the victim role is just as dangerous as boiling in the pressure cooker. It keeps you chained up to the past and prolongs the misery. It would eat me alive to try to live like THAT! How could I ever fight my way out of that kind of fog to do or be anything? I think I would feel depressed and "stuck".
My fave line from the "behind the scenes footage" of The Pianist from Roman Polanski (paraphrased): "This film shows that there is good and bad in all people. There were bad Germans and good Poles, but there were also good Germans and bad Poles".
Amen, Roman.
knowing our history it is quite easy to understand that germans are always educated (at school for example) so that they are not allowed to have any hint of patriotism. in germany when you were waving a flag you would quickly be put into a far right corner...
this is actually quite a sad story if you compare it for example to the english people who (today) have a rather relaxed way of patriotism and can easily joke about their certain inabilities (that is actually enough material for a seperate thread)...
however in germany we all had to look for a different ways and means of identification, which (amongst the more educated) lead to a more open mind and tolerance...
we know our our history and therefor are able to prevent it from repeating itself...
this is actually quite a sad story if you compare it for example to the english people who (today) have a rather relaxed way of patriotism and can easily joke about their certain inabilities (that is actually enough material for a seperate thread)...
however in germany we all had to look for a different ways and means of identification, which (amongst the more educated) lead to a more open mind and tolerance...
we know our our history and therefor are able to prevent it from repeating itself...
I have been reading up/studying a little about this aspect of German culture over the summer, and what you said here is in alignment with what I have learned. I was very surprised to learn how guarded many German's are today in regard to expressing themselves politically because of the strict taboos resulting from the negative consequences of historical nationalism. As an American, I came to realize that the freedom of speech that I take for granted (we can and do say say pretty much anything, idiot or not!) is a rare commodity in many parts of the world.
Next, I was shocked at how "fresh" the fallout from WWII is (I especially got that sense from this forum). Then I started to ask myself questions, like "Where is this coming from? The grandparents? The young adults of today?". It seemed to me that it (unresolved anger, fear and frustration between Poland and Germany, et al) was getting passed down to young people from older family members, with help from the media.
Then I wondered, if I were a 20 something in Germany today, how would I react to all the restrictions, imposed guilt, overwhelming pressure to be so politically correct all the time? I have to say (as a very free Ammie of course) I'd be fed up! I had nothing to do with what that generation did! Why do I have to tip toe around on eggshells? To hell with this! This is MY life and I will live it my way. (Of course this would get me in a LOT of trouble in Germany). So what would happen? How would I rebel? How could I be an individual and have a voice, when conformity is demanded? I think I would burst at the seams. There is too much independent rebel in me.....I would probably do something counter to the culture just to be heard, even if I didn't really agree with the cause! I think I would have a kind of anger in me, looking for a way out.
Does that make sense? Is that any different than a generation of young people struggling to assert themselves by letting their hair grow and following the Beatles? (another generation, I know...but you get the idea?
My bottom line is this: I would rather see people speaking freely and "getting it out of their system" than keeping it bottled up (a pressure cooker eventually blows). I see that what comes out is a bit ugly sometimes, especially when one side does not try to see the other side's view OR tries to trump each other out of ego. *sighs*
I can put myself into Polish shoes as well. There is a lot of pain, agony, and suffering there. But acting out the victim role is just as dangerous as boiling in the pressure cooker. It keeps you chained up to the past and prolongs the misery. It would eat me alive to try to live like THAT! How could I ever fight my way out of that kind of fog to do or be anything? I think I would feel depressed and "stuck".
My fave line from the "behind the scenes footage" of The Pianist from Roman Polanski (paraphrased): "This film shows that there is good and bad in all people. There were bad Germans and good Poles, but there were also good Germans and bad Poles".
Amen, Roman.
shopgirl
13 Dec 2007
News / Polish-German Relations in the Present [697]
Come on guys....shouldn't we put the leadership decision to a vote from the people? hehe
;)
Come on guys....shouldn't we put the leadership decision to a vote from the people? hehe
;)
shopgirl
12 Dec 2007
News / Weak US dollar in Poland and other countries... [180]
I think the economy in the US will get worse before it gets better. I expect the dollar will go lower along with the economy. The US govt just made a small bail out to help the people facing foreclosures on homes as the result of loans given to people who could not really afford them. Take that along with oil prices that keep rising and the huge debt caused by the war in Iraq, and the US has some huge financial hurdles to jump before things can chug along smoothly again.
In the meantime, other countries will be hurt if the US can consume as much as it did before, but that will probably smooth out over time as other markets open. (after all, the Euro countries should be able to purchase plenty!)
Americans are facing another recession in my opinion, and worse than the one in the seventies. Time to tighten the belt and buy only the necessities. (And I wouldn't consider a laptop or a cell phone a necessity, btw). :)
I think the economy in the US will get worse before it gets better. I expect the dollar will go lower along with the economy. The US govt just made a small bail out to help the people facing foreclosures on homes as the result of loans given to people who could not really afford them. Take that along with oil prices that keep rising and the huge debt caused by the war in Iraq, and the US has some huge financial hurdles to jump before things can chug along smoothly again.
In the meantime, other countries will be hurt if the US can consume as much as it did before, but that will probably smooth out over time as other markets open. (after all, the Euro countries should be able to purchase plenty!)
Americans are facing another recession in my opinion, and worse than the one in the seventies. Time to tighten the belt and buy only the necessities. (And I wouldn't consider a laptop or a cell phone a necessity, btw). :)
shopgirl
20 Nov 2007
News / What sort of fellow is this Donald Tusk anyway? [34]
And what the heck does "decommunisation" mean in this day and age?
*looks totally confused with crinkled brows*
And what the heck does "decommunisation" mean in this day and age?
*looks totally confused with crinkled brows*
shopgirl
20 Nov 2007
News / What sort of fellow is this Donald Tusk anyway? [34]
What are the values of the party he belongs to? I take it that it is much less conservative than the Kaczynskis?
What are the values of the party he belongs to? I take it that it is much less conservative than the Kaczynskis?
shopgirl
20 Nov 2007
News / What sort of fellow is this Donald Tusk anyway? [34]
But isn't he trying to help Poland's position in the EU? And trying to strengthen ties to other European countries? How does he feel (Tusk) about the US? Does this mean the missile base might not happen now?
But isn't he trying to help Poland's position in the EU? And trying to strengthen ties to other European countries? How does he feel (Tusk) about the US? Does this mean the missile base might not happen now?
shopgirl
20 Nov 2007
News / What sort of fellow is this Donald Tusk anyway? [34]
But what about Tusk's politics? What impact is he having on Poland and its role in the EU?
That's what matters. :)
But what about Tusk's politics? What impact is he having on Poland and its role in the EU?
That's what matters. :)