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Responsibility for Murder of Catholic Poles during WWII ?


sjam 2 | 541  
23 Oct 2009 /  #61
You are avoiding the issue. How is it that Polish deaths are an unccountable estimate,

How so? You said:

If you insist that 4 million Jews died at Auschwitz the thought police will leave you alone, but if your research yields 1 million, you will quickly fall under the Holocaust Denial Laws.

I asked how many Poles had ever been arrested for claiming less than 4 mlllion Jews were murdered in the Holocaust under your Holocaust Denial Laws? That would be a simple qualifier to your claim 'if your research yields 1 million, you will quickly fall under the Holocaust Denial Laws.'

I want to know how real a threat your 'thought police' are posing to the Poles discussion of Jewish Holocaust numbers in light of your apparent claim that such discussion is repressed by fear of the Holocaust Denial Law presumably leading to arrest and imprisonment?

Or have no Poles ever claimed that there were less than 4 million? I find that even harder to believe?

I am pretty sure I have seen Poles giving a number(s) to their 'Forgotten Holocaust' what ever the figure was I am sure you have another one in mind.

You also forgot to site the source of your pogrom list.

A History of the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee 1929-1939
1jola 14 | 1,879  
23 Oct 2009 /  #62
I would suggest you make an urgent phone call to the Auschwitz museum: they say the death-toll was 1.1 million and Jews made up less than a million of that!

10 years ago the plaque said 4 million. A mere discrepancy of 3 million. The 6 million figure is not equally mobile.

If you want to place any reliance at all in the figures provided by the Commies, well, that's your problem!

It's not me, Harry. The world placed total reliance on the Soviet figures for fifty years. The holocaust deniers have a good argument here; if you adjust the Auschwitz figures then you should adjust the total.

Yes: they haven't got foreskins. Which is very much their loss: foreskins are very useful.

I've heard they are a redneck delicacy in the U.S., known as pork rinds.

You are slightly confused with the 4 million, but that's immaterial. The denial laws are flexible; they are designed to muzzle any historian who doesn't sing the party line. The case of a young Polish historian shows this very well.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dariusz_Ratajczak

You are still evading the question? Why do Jews insist on imposing such laws?

A History of the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee 1929-1939

You can take this source and wipe with it.

Here is Chapter 5:

5. Prelude to the Holocaust, p.180 (whole chapter)

A. Destruction of the Jewish existence in Poland 1929-1939

A joke, huh?

The rest of the Chapter headings all refer to Poland as anti-Semitic Poland.

Work of Joint Distribution Committee in anti-Semitic Poland

Total drivel. There was a good reason why you didn't link to the "source."
sjam 2 | 541  
23 Oct 2009 /  #63
Why do Jews insist on imposing such laws?

No such laws exist in Great Britain even though there is a significant population of British Jews here. Holocaust denial isn't a crime here—to our credit we don't need one :-)

So you are suggesting the 15,000 Jews in Poland have imposed such a law on the Polish government and this law stops all discussion about numbers.

Dariusz_Ratajczak

Your Wiki link states 1999 he was convicted of Holocaust denial in Poland. Denying that the Holocust occured is not the same as discussing numbers of those murdered is it?

You point to one right-wing fascist who was arrested for saying that Zyklon B gas was used only for disinfecting, that there was no Nazi plan for the systematic murder of Jews? He didn't say that one million Jews were gassed he said no Jews were gassed.

There was a good reason why you didn't link to the "source."

If there was good reason i would not have given you the link at all.

A History of the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee 1929-1939

You can take this source and wipe with it.

How distinctly Polish. LOL.
Harry  
23 Oct 2009 /  #64
It's not me, Harry. The world placed total reliance on the Soviet figures for fifty years. The holocaust deniers have a good argument here; if you adjust the Auschwitz figures then you should adjust the total.

So we all got lied to by the Commies. I personally have no problem at all with downward adjustment of the total number of victims, if the accurate figure is lower than the currently accepted figure of course. Auschwitz isn't even the worst of the inflations: Majdanek was once given as 1,500,000 victims including 400,000 Jews; the true figure is more in the order of 80,000 victims and 60,000 of them Jews. Inflated numbers do no good to anybody.
1jola 14 | 1,879  
23 Oct 2009 /  #65
to our credit we don't need one :-)

Why do you think you don't need one and how is it to your credit.

So you are suggesting the 15,000 Jews in Poland have imposed such a law on the Polish government and this law stops all discussion about numbers.

Are you suggesting the Jews had nothing to do with these laws in Europe?

If there was good reason i would not have given you the link at all.

The source you are quoting is rubbish and you know it.

Inflated numbers do no good to anybody.

Exactly. Falsified stories don't either. When it comes to the Holocaust there can be no discussion. Period. Lies must be believed, no matter how ridiculous. Case in point. Remember the Wolf Girl? There obvious lie of a seven-year-old Jewish girl walking alone through war torn Europe, to Ukraine and back, living with wolves in Poland, was never questioned. Heck, the French made a film last year about it. People are affraid to even question idiocy. Such is the power of denial laws and the fear of being labeled an anti-semite. Sad. So the average Jewish person will suffer insult at some point as they are lumped together with the money grubbing Holocaust profesionals.
Harry  
23 Oct 2009 /  #66
I was thinking more about how when there is only black and white, a lot of people live in the darkness.
1jola 14 | 1,879  
23 Oct 2009 /  #67
Allowing debate would deminish Jewish excusivity on suffering and all the material benefits that go along with it long after the tragedy. This is prevented by denial laws and such. There are lots of useful and well meaning idiots supporting this.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
23 Oct 2009 /  #68
How distinctly Polish. LOL.

How distinctly anti-Polish, again:)
sjam 2 | 541  
23 Oct 2009 /  #69
When it comes to the Holocaust there can be no discussion.

And yet even the internet is full of such discussion despite these Jewish imposed laws being place.

Are you suggesting the Jews had nothing to do with these laws in Europe?

And yet there are no Holocaust denial laws imposed on Great Britain by the Jews despite having a considerably larger Jewish population than probably any other Europena nation and most certainly vastly more than Poland—why do you suggest that is?

The source you are quoting is rubbish and you know it.

Of course, because it is a Jewish source. How distinctly Polish :-))

Such is the power of denial laws and the fear of being labeled an anti-semite.

One historian arrested 1999 for Holocaust denial. Wow! Those laws sure are draconian I would try and change them if you dare. LOL.
1jola 14 | 1,879  
23 Oct 2009 /  #70
And yet even the internet is full of such discussion despite these Jewish imposed laws being place.

The internet is the only place such discussions take place, for now.

And yet there are no Holocaust denial laws imposed on Great Britain by the Jews despite having a considerably larger Jewish population than probably any other Europena nation and most certainly vastly more than Poland—why do you suggest that is?

Common Law and Civil Law countries issue. In the US the 1st Ammendment prevents the Jews from imposing this law.

Of course, because it is a Jewish source. How distinctly Polish :-))

So in your mind, it is distinctly Polish to call Jewish sources garbage. Whatever.

I pointed out to you why that source is biased. Go back and read it again.

One historian arrested 1999 for Holocaust denial. Wow! Those laws sure are draconian I would try and change them if you dare. LOL.

Ruining a man's career over a book he wrote is draconian. So you do agree with this law. Why?
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
23 Oct 2009 /  #71
jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/pole2jew.html, this is an interesting read. The Germans likely didn't discriminate between Poles and Jews on some occasions.
sjam 2 | 541  
23 Oct 2009 /  #72
The internet is the only place such discussions take place, for now.

Hardly so:

'Tylko Polska'(Only Poland)

we read:

Auschwitz was not an extermination camp but a labor camp. Jews, Gypsies and others died there by hard work, and it was not so severe that everyone always died, because there are reports that food was in the camp three times a day consisting soup, milk and white bread, and Jews are often fulfilled the important functions in the camps, for example as Kapos.

prof. prof. Ryszard Bender w programie w nocy z 13 na 14 stycznia 2000 r. Cytat za: Dorota Wodecka-Lasota, "Kłamca nie ma już siły", "Gazeta Wyborcza", 25 grudnia 2007.

polskapartianarodowa.org/tp/index.php option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=28&Itemid=78

Common Law and Civil Law countries issue.

Your conetention was the Jews imposed their Holocaust denial laws over Europe?
But that is hardly true either as there is no Holocaust Denial Law in Britain, despite the having one of the largest if not the largest Jewish population in Europe. Why have they not imposed this law on us in England?

Ruining a man's career over a book he wrote is draconian.

from your wiki link:

Dariusz Ratajczak was a history lecturer at the University of Opole until 1999, when he was dismissed following controversy about his book Dangerous Topics in which he asserted that the gas chambers at Auschwitz were used merely to delouse prisoners.He has published articles in right-wing magazines like Myśl Polska and currently, he cooperates with Najwyższy Czas, a weekly magazine of the political party Unia Polityki Realnej, where he writes articles on history.

Seems his university ruined his teaching career, maybe they were all Jews?

But seems he resigned own career:
In 2002 Ratajczak was considered as a candidate from the League of Polish Families for the Opole's voivodeship sejmik, but after his candidature caused controversy he resigned it.

So in your mind, it is distinctly Polish to call Jewish sources garbage.

Only when you dismiss them for being Jewish and therefore cannot be factual.
1jola 14 | 1,879  
23 Oct 2009 /  #73
You either have comprehension difficulties or being juvenile. Once again you're wasting my time.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
23 Oct 2009 /  #74
Why should the views of one professor count anyway? He likely just stumbled across the 'Arbeit Macht Frei' slogan and saw more in it than actually existed. Any thinking person knows that it was a grand lie.
cheehaw 2 | 263  
24 Oct 2009 /  #75
Sure. I still wonder how the hell I got that honoured Master's that I have and that Bachelors'.

I'm right with you on that!

And as a matter of fact: why do you think Israël participates in the Eurosongfestival and the European football leagues while it's an Asian country

Especially when you make statements like this.

Israel is an Asian country.. hmm.. very interesting. I'm sure they would love to learn that too.

please, stop, the level of your insanity is too much too deal with.

You are avoiding the issue. How is it that Polish deaths are an unccountable estimate, but Jewish deaths are countable? And why do you need a law to enforce only the Jewish tragedy? Are Jews special in some way?

thank you, my point exactly.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752  
24 Oct 2009 /  #76
thank you, my point exactly.

Of course, just admit you don't like Jews, everybody here knows that. The words "Jew" and/or "Jews" are the most used in all of your posts. This can mean two things: either you hate the Jews or you are obsessed with them. I think it's a bit of both, but then again, you always try to "prove" that the Jews were bad and did bad things. Sec.

I will tell you why there are laws concerning the punishment of Holocaust denial: because for thousands of years every generation there was an idiot who blamed the Jews for his own failure. And since thousands of years apparently are not enough time for ppl to learn, they have to enforce the ppl to learn to stop this rubbish. That's why there are laws concerning the issue.

please, stop, the level of your insanity is too much too deal with.

You're such a simple person, starting to cry when somebody don't goes along with your depraved points of view and then starting to insult the ppl who don't agree with you. You agree with Joe, which says enough about your level.

Israel is an Asian country

Maybe your geographic knowledge isn't that advanced, but just so you know: the entire Middle East is part of Asia, not Europe. Every schoolkid knows that.

I'm right with you on that!

Still I have them and I was one of the best of my year. Too bad you fail to see sarcasm. In case you don't know what sarcasm is, I recommend you use a dictionary. Yet I rebuke you time and time again. It's so easy when one deals with ppl of limited views. And as from now on, I would suggest you stop posting as you have nothing to contribute. Nothing at all, except conspiracy nonsense. Go away before you start to annoy me.

>^..^<

M-G (il est si facile de traiter avec des gens simples)
cheehaw 2 | 263  
24 Oct 2009 /  #77
Of course, just admit you don't like Jews, everybody here knows that.

I love jews.

Yes the middle east and I guess the entire arabian penisula then, is part of asia with eurasia somehow stuck inbetween itself and asia. should we include egypt?

you are insane.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752  
24 Oct 2009 /  #78
I love jews.

You have a very funny way of showing your love then.

eurasia

The proper name would be "The Eurasian continent" and consists of Asia and Europe, the latter being basically nothing more than two large peninsulas of the Asian continent. Only because of the civilation that took place on those two peninsulas, it is called a seperate continent, but strictly speaking it's not a continent at all. Egypt is in Africa. Heck even the mainland of Turkey is not part of Europe, strictly speaking. Check an atlas as you haven't got a clue. Americans who try to tell a European about their continent.

>^..^<

M-G (impropria impropriae est)
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
24 Oct 2009 /  #79
Of course, just admit you don't like Jews

Whats wrong with not liking Jews? I dont like them because of their religion, i dont like them because of their fascist little shythole in Palestine, i dont like them because of their approach to Poland, i dont like them becuse they teach their kids we worked with the nazis, i can think of at least 10 perfectly legitimate reasons why i think they're little bloody pricks.

It doesnt make me an anti-semit or a nazi just a guy who doesnt like jews, its perfectly normal not to like jews, cold tea or anything else, stop villyfying people for their personal views especially if they're based on legitimate reasons.

There's enough terrorising people with anti-semit smear on American forums.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752  
24 Oct 2009 /  #80
It doesnt make me an anti-semit or a nazi just a guy who doesnt like jews, its perfectly normal not to like jews, cold tea or anything else, stop villyfying people for their personal views especially if they're based on legitimate reasons.

You just keep on being a pryck are you? What if I would say that I don't like Poles? Then you would start whining about me being anti-Polish. Well, I'm not gonna say that, because I am not a retard like you. So shut the f*ck up. As long as you start whinging and whining that ppl are being anti-Polish if they say something that is not suitable to Poles as such, you're not entitled to say things like this. Stop villifying ppl who don't like Poles.

>^..^<

M-G (terra ekpyrosis again and again)
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
24 Oct 2009 /  #81
What if I would say that I don't like Poles?

Exactly! Nothing! Its your god given right and as long as you dont pull off Harry and mindlessly spit at everything its ok so stop spreading hysteria.

Be anti-Polish, if a Pole stole your girlfriend, took your work i dont care, i mind point out that you're anti-Polish but i'm not going to start spreading hysteria, its OK not to like people, its OK not to like Jews if someone has valid reason and there's loads of valid reasons not to like them, stop forcing people to be politically correct you twat.
cheehaw 2 | 263  
24 Oct 2009 /  #82
You just keep on being a pryck are you? What if I would say that I don't like Poles? Then you would start whining about me being anti-Polish. Well, I'm not gonna say that, because I am not a retard like you. So shut the f*ck up. As long as you start whinging and whining that ppl are being anti-Polish if they say something that is not suitable to Poles as such, you're not entitled to say things like this. Stop villifying ppl who don't like Poles.

If you do not behave yourself I will be forced to publicly post some very notorious and hateful writings from the jewish books of Talmud and Cabala.

and you of course, will feel obliged to defend them in your insanity.
sjam 2 | 541  
24 Oct 2009 /  #83
You either have comprehension difficulties or being juvenile. Once again you're wasting my time.

You say the Jews imposed Holocaust Denial laws on Europe! Yet this is patently not true, as no such laws were imposed on Great Britain despite having a large Jewish population. Most of Scandinavia rejected holocaust denial laws, as did Spain. Yet Poland was unable to do so, despite having less Jews in the whole of Poland that would fill a small football stadium. So who imposed such laws on Poland that Britain and others do not feel they needed but Poland thought it did?

Are Poland's Institute of National Remembrance composed entirely of Jews???

After all Poland's denial laws were written by the IPN and cover not only denial of Nazi crimes (including the Holocaust) but communist crimes and all crimes against humanity.

(Dz.U. 1998 nr 155 poz. 1016)

Article 55
He who publicly and contrary to facts contradicts the crimes mentioned in Article 1, clause 1 shall be subject to a fine or a penalty of deprivation of liberty of up to three years. The judgment shall be made publicly known.

Article 1
This Act shall govern:
1. the registration, collection, access, management and use of the documents of the organs of state security created and collected between 22 July 1944 and 31 December 1989, and the documents of the organs of security of the Third Reich and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics concerning:

a) crimes perpetrated against persons of Polish nationality and Polish citizens of other ethnicity, nationalities in the period between 1 September 1939 and 31 December 1989:

And how many people have been arrested by your 'thought Police' for discussing (or diminishing) the numbers of Jews murdered during the Holocaust? You point to just one second-rate 'historian' and failed wannabe politician who sold less than 250 books in 1999 in which he alleged Auschwitz was not an extermination camp. He probably never read Pilecki's report in which Pilecki was the first to alert the world to the extermination of Jews at Auschwitz after all he was there when these crimes were being perpetrated. And your convicted 'historian' where was he?

So who do we believe? A convicted Polish holocaust denier or Polish national hero?

So you do agree with this law. Why?

You asked if I agreed with the Polish law (which was defined by IPN).

For Poland I do.

Many Poles on here consider its non-Jewish victims as being part of the Holocaust. If that is the case why should these same Poles not want Holocaust denial to be against the law? Denial of non-Jewish victims should be the same crime as denial of Jewish victims and Poland's IPN have made sure this is the case. All should be favour of this, even you.
1jola 14 | 1,879  
24 Oct 2009 /  #84
You say the Jews imposed Holocaust Denial laws on Europe! Yet this is patently not true, as no such laws were imposed on Great Britain despite having a large Jewish population.

Don't waste my time and go and read about denial laws. You will see for yourself.

And how many people have been arrested by your 'thought Police' for discussing (or diminishing) the numbers of Jews murdered during the Holocaust?

Write an objective book on the subject and you will see how far your career goes. The issue is free speech - ever hear about it?

You asked if I agreed with the Polish law (which was defined by IPN).

For Poland I do.

I asked you if you agree in principle.

Many Poles on here consider its non-Jewish victims as being part of the Holocaust.

We don't call it the Holocaust and we haven't made a money making circus out of it.

If that is the case why should these same Poles not want Holocaust denial to be against the law?

You would feel more at home in Russia. They are implementing laws about WWII that would please you.

Denial laws are there to prevent you from stating your opinion. More like in totalitarian states, no?
MareGaea 29 | 2,752  
24 Oct 2009 /  #85
If you do not behave yourself I will be forced to publicly post some very notorious and hateful writings from the jewish books of Talmud and Cabala.

and you of course, will feel obliged to defend them in your insanity.

Why don't you simply go back to the kitchen? Everybody has his/her place in society, and yours is in the kitchen. Simple as that. You can post as much from the Talmud or Kabbala if you like, I don't care. I'm not religious anyway.

So who do we believe? A convicted Polish holocaust denier or Polish national hero?

You should make the choice more challenging, sjam :)
Wasn't it Pilecki who wrote "In the first 3 years 2 million ppl have been killed in this camp and the next 2 years there will be 3 million more killed"?

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)
1jola 14 | 1,879  
24 Oct 2009 /  #86
You should make the choice more challenging, sjam :)

Giggling at stupid comparisons is sophmorish.

So you both endorse the idea that people should be imprisoned for their views. That's what the denial laws set out to do.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752  
24 Oct 2009 /  #87
So you both endorse the idea that people should be imprisoned for their views. That's what the denial laws set out to do.

Like I said in a previous post, the denial laws are only there to prevent from happening again what has been happening every other generation for nearly 2000 years. Every other generation there will be an idiot who denies the Holocaust and/or the killing of millions of other more or less innocent ppl. As we have seen to which intolerance can lead in the past, and knowing that some idiots never will learn, those laws are instated to stop them thinking such BS by criminalising it. And that is a good idea. "he who doesn't want to listen, has to feel." as we say in Holland. If a child doesn't listen to you, you spank it, so it will listen to you. Denial views are no views, they are dangerous cases of depraved thinking; dangerous because idiots (i e skinheads, stupid extreme right wing movements and so on) who don't have a brain get a "scientific" base for their idiotic behaviour: this "scientist" says it, so it must be true!. That's why the laws are there. Like it or not. You are not to deny the Holocaust. It has nothing to do with pressure from the Jews or whatever, just with common sense of the law makers in the diverse countries.

Edit: and girl, you may wanna change the "sex" on your account. Now everybody thinks you're a man.

>^..^<

M-G (thinks denial laws are good - we've tried it way too often otherwise to root out depraved thinking)
southern 75 | 7,096  
24 Oct 2009 /  #88
The Holocaust of the Jews did happen but it was one event among many others in WW2,Hitler's politics included enslavement and extermination of Slavs,annihilation of deformed,gypsies,gays,communists as well,so it was not only the Jews.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752  
24 Oct 2009 /  #89
it was not only the Jews

Nobody said it was solely the Jews. They were the biggest group and the main target of Hitler's wrath, but not the only one.

>^..^<

M-G (coffee)
southern 75 | 7,096  
24 Oct 2009 /  #90
They were the biggest group and the main target of Hitler's wrath

They were not the biggets group nor the main target.However extermination of Jews was key to nazi success.But the big game was played in the East against the Slavs.

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